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SIA
Guest
Just wanted to know how you can believe in the Marian dogmas of Catholicism without it interferring dramatically with the Scriptures?
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Coder
Guest
Hi,
This discusses 1 Timothy 2:5
catholic.com/library/Intercession_of_the_Saints.asp
In regards to Hebrews 7:26, I encourage you to pray to the Father through Jesus and ask Him:
If He gives us Mary as our mother whom we can ask for intercession.
If the Catholic Church has the the fullness of truth.
If the Eucharist which is centrally related to the priesthood of Jesus is Jesus Himself and not a mere symbol.
This discusses 1 Timothy 2:5
catholic.com/library/Intercession_of_the_Saints.asp
In regards to Hebrews 7:26, I encourage you to pray to the Father through Jesus and ask Him:
If He gives us Mary as our mother whom we can ask for intercession.
If the Catholic Church has the the fullness of truth.
If the Eucharist which is centrally related to the priesthood of Jesus is Jesus Himself and not a mere symbol.
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cyberjacques
Guest
Yes, Jesus is The High Priest and King. But in ancient times the advocate of the people to the king was the queen mother. She was the one who interceded with the king on the people’s behalf. This is why we Catholics refer to Mary as the Queen Mother of heaven. All the power and authority resides with Jesus, the King, and the final say is His, but like any good king, He listens to the council of His mother. Even those of us who are not kings should do likewise.
A little historical context goes a long way
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SIA
Guest
And how do you justify Mary queen of Heaven by the Scriptures? And, prove to me how Mary plays any role whatsoever in our Salvation?Yes, Jesus is The High Priest and King. But in ancient times the advocate of the people to the king was the queen mother. She was the one who interceded with the king on the people’s behalf. This is why we Catholics refer to Mary as the Queen Mother of heaven. All the power and authority resides with Jesus, the King, and the final say is His, but like any good king, He listens to the council of His mother. Even those of us who are not kings should do likewise.
A little historical context goes a long way
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SIA
Guest
Yes it does. The though of anyone who honestly believes in their heart of hearts and in their soul that Mary is co-redemptrix with Christ really bothers me and it should concern them deeply.
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CentralFLJames
Guest
This is old stuff and gone over a million times here at CAF.
III. Mary is our Mother and Queen of the New Davidic Kingdom
John 19:26 - Jesus makes Mary the Mother of us all as He dies on the Cross by saying “behold your mother.” Jesus did not say “John, behold your mother” because he gave Mary to all of us, his beloved disciples. All the words that Jesus spoke on Cross had a divine purpose. Jesus was not just telling John to take care of his mother.
Rev. 12:17 - this verse proves the meaning of John 19:26. The “woman’s” (Mary’s) offspring are those who follow Jesus. She is our Mother and we are her offspring in Jesus Christ. The master plan of God’s covenant love for us is family. But we cannot be a complete family with the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Christ without the Motherhood of Mary.
John 2:3 - this is a very signifcant verse in Scripture. As our mother, Mary tells all of us to do whatever Jesus tells us. Further, Mary’s intercession at the marriage feast in Cana triggers Jesus’ ministry and a foreshadowing of the Eucharistic celebration of the Lamb. This celebration unites all believers into one famiy through the marriage of divinity and humanity.
John 2:7 - Jesus allows His mother to intercede for the people on His behalf, and responds to His mother’s request by ordering the servants to fill the jars with water.
Psalm 45:9 - the psalmist teaches that the Queen stands at the right hand of God. The role of the Queen is important in God’s kingdom. Mary the Queen of heaven is at the right hand of the Son of God.
1 Kings 2:17, 20 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the King does not refuse his mother. Jesus is the new Davidic King, and He does not refuse the requests of his mother Mary, the Queen.
1 Kings 2:18 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the Queen intercedes on behalf of the King’s followers. She is the Queen Mother (or “Gebirah”). Mary is our eternal Gebirah.
1 Kings 2:19 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom the King bows down to his mother and she sits at his right hand. We, as children of the New Covenant, should imitate our King and pay the same homage to Mary our Mother. By honoring Mary, we honor our King, Jesus Christ.
1 Kings 15:13 - the Queen Mother is a powerful position in Israel’s royal monarchy. Here the Queen is removed from office. But now, the Davidic kingdom is perfected by Jesus, and our Mother Mary is forever at His right hand.
2 Chron. 22:10 - here Queen Mother Athalia destroys the royal family of Judah after she sees her son, King Ahaziah, dead. The Queen mother plays a significant role in the kingdom.
Neh. 2:6 - the Queen Mother sits beside the King. She is the primary intercessor before the King.
More here: THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY and SCRIPTURE
James
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CentralFLJames
Guest
Do you find Jesus in your heart of hearts when you go in deep? If so ask Him if it bothers Him that His mother is honored and called “blessed above all women”? Why should you be bothered if it does not bother Jesus? Do you imagine Jesus needs you to worry about being such a good loving son that she should desire to share His glory and honor with those He loves?
James
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Prayer_Warrior
Guest
There are four Marian dogma’s:
For there is one God. There is also one mediator between God and the human race, Christ Jesus
It was fitting that we should have such a high priest: holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners, higher than the heavens.
Please explain how, in your view, these scriptures conflict with the four Marian dogmas. Frankly, I do not see any relevance between the scriptures you reference and the Marian dogmas.
- Mary is the mother of God.
- Mary was conceived without sin (Immaculate Conception).
- Mary remained a virgin her entire life (Perpetual Virginity).
- Mary was assumed into heaven at the end of her earthly life.
For there is one God. There is also one mediator between God and the human race, Christ Jesus
It was fitting that we should have such a high priest: holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners, higher than the heavens.
Please explain how, in your view, these scriptures conflict with the four Marian dogmas. Frankly, I do not see any relevance between the scriptures you reference and the Marian dogmas.
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brkn1
Guest
You might want to reconsider using any of the verses in (1 Kings 2:17-24) as an example of “successful” queenly intercession.
Adonijah ended up getting killed by Solomon after using the queen-mother Bathsheba as an intercessor for his request to marry Abishag the Shunammite.
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Peter_J
Guest
Actually, the opening post asks “Just wanted to know how you can believe in the Marian dogmas of Catholicism without it interferring dramatically with the Scriptures?” None of the 4 Marian dogmas (I would list them, but Prayer_Warrior beat me to it) say anything about “Co-redemtrix”.
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CentralFLJames
Guest
I hear your point. But Solomon was a bit whacked now and then too. Let’s not forget that Solomon built the pagan temples for political gain! Talk about invoking God’s wrath!
James
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SIA
Guest
You are trying to compare diety with a mere human or do you believe that Mary is diety as well?
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SIA
Guest
- Mary could not be the mother of God. God always was and has no beginning. Mary had a natural birth as a natural human.
- Scripture does not tell us that Mary was conceived without sin. Even St. Thomas Aquinas said that Mary could not have been conceived without sin because of the Scriptures telling us that Mary rejoiced in God her savior. St. Thomas Aquinas is canonized saint in the RCC and I don’t believe anybody posting here is.
- Again, Scripture doesn’t say anything about Mary remaining a virgin. It in fact tells us that she had other children besides Jesus and says nothing to the contrary that Mary led a normal married life with Joseph.
- Scripture tells us of Enoch being assumed into Heaven body and spirit but never anything about Mary.
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SIA
Guest
absolutely he is, but the Father and the Holy Spirit are God as well are they not? Was Mary their mother as well?
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TriuneUnity
Guest
No, because the statement “Mary is the mother of God” does not mean that she gave birth to His divine existence, as that was eternally begotten of the Father. However, since Jesus is God in the flesh and Mary is His mother, she is the mother of God.
The term arose in response to those who were dividing Jesus’ human and divine nature.
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SIA
Guest
I stand by the fact that Mary was the mother of Jesus (God in the flesh), not God the father nor God the Spirit.
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SIA
Guest
I understand and I have no quarrel with what you said here.
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