How do Catholics explain 1 Timothy 2:5 and Hebrews 7:26?

[adstrinity]

Lo and behold, this is how doctrines of men, replace what the Bible plain and simple states. To avoid this, read everything in its context.

Jesus never called Mary “mother” in the Bible. Its an assumption. If I follow that type of doctrine, that would make Joseph the father of God also, which is ridiculous. This is truncating God into human philosophy. God did not marry Mary, Mary married Joseph of Arimathea, her husband.

Joseph did not sire Jesus.

Joseph of Arimathea is not Joseph Jesus’ father. Joseph of Arimathea was the man who offered his tomb so that Jesus could be burried.

 

[SenorSalsa]

Its a formality. I’m sure he also called his dad, father.

Where is that in Scripture?

And it may just be me but Jesus didn’t seem to be worried by many formalities while on earth. He didn’t fast, He didn’t cleanse his hands before eating, He ate with tax collectors and not Pharisees, etc.

And why does Elizabeth call Mary the Mother of her Lord? Luke 1:43

 

[Arglaze]

Joseph did not sire Jesus.

Joseph of Arimathea is not Joseph Jesus’ father. Joseph of Arimathea was the man who offered his tomb so that Jesus could be burried.

LOL, my appologies for getting my cables twisted. But thank you for bringing it up.
not Joseph of Arimatea, Joseph, Mary’s husband.

 

[mercygate]

Mary was no where alive when the Books of the Kings were written. If however you’re trying to explain it as something prophetic in nature, you need something stronger than “are found in the Books of the Kings” to support that.

Jesus was the King of Israel for all time. Mothers of the Kings were the Queen Mother.

She was a receptacle that the Holy Spirit used to hide His Divinity in humanity. That doesn’t make her the “Mother of God”, that only makes her an egg donor, and sorry it sounds so impersonal. But Jesus existed before Mary, therefore she cannot be the “Mother of God”. Jesus was, like the angel said, “that Holy thing” in her womb.

Christ existed before Mary: from the foundation of the world. Jesus did not exist until the Holy Spirit hovered over her. God does not treat His chosen ones like disposable sandwich bags.

By being born of her, that doesn’t make her a queen. Nor did God married her, seeing she was Joseph’s wife, so Joseph is her husband, not God. Joseph had relations with her after Jesus was conceived from that virgin’s womb, because he had brothers and sisters.

You are jumbling things here. None of the “brothers of the Lord” named in Scripture was a son of Mary.

She’s blessed among all women, for having that wonderful privilege, and the fruit of her womb is blessed. But she did not give Jesus his divinity, in fact she gave Jesus his mortality, in order that he could die on the cross, because in his ‘God form’ He cannot die. In his human state, his Divinity was hid in mortality, that’s why he said everything he does, he did through the Father, not of his own.

Christian theology [note: this is NOT exclusive to Catholic theology – ask any good Presbyterian!] does not state that Mary gave Jesus His divinity. Go talk to a good Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist or Presbyterian about “Mother of God.” They ALL understand what this is, and why it is an essential teaching that undergirds the hypostatic union. Don’t take our word for it.

Jesus’ prayer to God fulfilled on Sunday at His resurrection. The prayer was:
John 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
Before Mary ever existed.

Again, Mary gave Jesus his mortality, the Father, after Jesus’ death, gave Jesus his immortality back the way it was in the eons of eternity. In that light, Mary is definetly not God’s Queen, nor she sits Queen. The throne in heaven is the Throne of the Father and the Lamb, not the Father, and the Lamb, and the Mary.

Christians do not believe that Jesus EVER “gave up” his divinity in the Incarnation. WHERE do you get such ideas?

Get Jesus wrong, and you get Mary wrong. Get Mary wrong, and you get Jesus wrong.

 

[Rocky]

Jesus didn’t say pray these words, he said after this manner pray ye.

And the prayers are directed straight to God, with no in betweens.
So the “Lord’s Prayer” like most people call it, is to be studied to know how to pray.
There are also prayers in the old testament which God answered, that are a good example of how to pray also.

Anything outside of that, is doing something Jesus did not ask for. There’s only one mediator between God and men in the Scriptures, and that is Jesus. There’s no mediator between Jesus and men. People may pray for you, but you must pray to God directly.

The command is simple, pray to the Father. And the only church that tells people to repeat the same things over and over are the Roman Catholic. I don’t know of any other group that repeats prayers like that.

I am always amazed whenever I have heard people say “there is no mediator between Jesus and man.” How did anyone come to Jesus except through the Church? Even if someone were to pick up a Gideon’s Bible in a hotel and start reading it and decided then and there to follow Jesus, still the bible would not have been in the hotel if a member of Christ’s Church had not put it there, and if centuries the Church had not put the Bible together so that Christians would know which Scriptures were truly inspired by the Holy Spirit and which were not. And before the Bible was compiled it was the Church through the Apostles and their successors that went out preaching and teaching. And even today if we followers of Christ truly take our responsibilities to Him seriously we become His hands and feet and we mediate Christ to others.

No, everyone comes to Christ through the Church in some way. To say otherwise is to deny Christ in a fundamental way.

 

[Arglaze]

Where is that in Scripture?

And it may just be me but Jesus didn’t seem to be worried by many formalities while on earth. He didn’t fast, He didn’t cleanse his hands before eating, He ate with tax collectors and not Pharisees, etc.

And why does Elizabeth call Mary the Mother of her Lord? Luke 1:43

Again, its a formality. If we want to follow along all that line. Then everyone in Mary’s line of heritage are something of God.

So that makes Abraham the holy “Grand father of God”, and that makes David also a “Grandfather of God”, etc etc… The idea is not according to scriptures.

 

[HamtramckSteve]

Mary was no where alive when the Books of the Kings were written.

Maybe God had her in mind, though, when Kings was written?

Afterall, Jeremiah 1:5 says “Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.”

Wouldn’t God’s foreknowledge extend to the Mother of His Son as much as an Old Testament prophet?

 

[Believe_85]

Lo and behold, this is how doctrines of men, replace what the Bible plain and simple states. To avoid this, read everything in its context.

Jesus never called Mary “mother” in the Bible. Its an assumption. If I follow that type of doctrine, that would make Joseph the father of God also, which is ridiculous. This is truncating God into human philosophy. God did not marry Mary, Mary married Joseph of Arimathea, her husband.

How is it an assumption to call the female parent of someone their mother?
Of course Joseph wasn’t the biological father of Jesus. God the Father is the Father. That’s biblical. But to say that because someone never called someone mother in the scripture means they are not their mother even if the woman gave birth to them? That is bizzare. If I never called my mother “mother” is she not my mother? It is not the title that makes them what they are, it is the role and actions. As I said before: Mary gave birth to Jesus, who is God, so Mary is the Mother of God. How does that not follow logic?

Are you disputing that Mary gave Jesus his Divinity? Because that is not the argument…we don’t believe Mary gave Jesus his divinity. That is the only way I can make sense of you saying that Mary is not the Mother of God. Maybe you think that is what our position is.

 

[Arglaze]

I am always amazed whenever I have heard people say “there is no mediator between Jesus and man.” How did anyone come to Jesus except through the Church? Even if someone were to pick up a Gideon’s Bible in a hotel and start reading it and decided then and there to follow Jesus, still the bible would not have been in the hotel if a member of Christ’s Church had not put it there, and if centuries the Church had not put the Bible together so that Christians would know which Scriptures were truly inspired by the Holy Spirit and which were not. And before the Bible was compiled it was the Church through the Apostles and their successors that went out preaching and teaching. And even today if we followers of Christ truly take our responsibilities to Him seriously we become His hands and feet and we mediate Christ to others.

No, everyone comes to Christ through the Church in some way. To say otherwise is to deny Christ in a fundamental way.

That’s a missunderstanding of the explanation Paul gives about Mediator between God and Men.

Let me ask you, was I crucified for your sins? was the pope crucified for your sins? was Paul or anyone crucified for your sins and your salvation?
Answer is simple, no. Jesus was crucified, which makes him the “Mediator” between God and man, a High priest after the order of Melchisedec, that is the work of mediation.

We are witnesses for God.

 

[SenorSalsa]

Lo and behold, this is how doctrines of men, replace what the Bible plain and simple states. To avoid this, read everything in its context.

Jesus never called Mary “mother” in the Bible. Its an assumption. If I follow that type of doctrine, that would make Joseph the father of God also, which is ridiculous. This is truncating God into human philosophy. God did not marry Mary, Mary married Joseph of Arimathea, her husband.

Matthew 2:13:
When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. “Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.”

Not Jesus’ words but I’ll take an angel’s as truth

John 19:26
When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, “Dear woman, here is your son,”

Again not Jesus’ words, but I do recall reading that Woman was a much more endearing term in Jesus’ time than in ours, and also, the fact that the four gospel writers refer to her as his mother many, many times, but never to Joseph as his mother, save when people question his divinity, should not be taken lightly

 

[mercygate]

By the way, I just did some research, and no where in the gospels or anywhere does Jesus call Mary, “mother”.
But regardless of that I wouldn’t be surprised if he did, although, strange enough, he referred to her as “woman” several times.

Quite. Harking to Gen 3:15 and the protoevangelium as well as to the “woman clothed with the sun” in Revelation. Christians understand that Mary is the New Eve. Eve, whose name means “mother of the living” became through sin “mother of all the dying.” Mary, Mother of God, became the new “mother of all the living” by bringing Christ into the world.

 

[Arglaze]

How is it an assumption to call the female parent of someone their mother?
Of course Joseph wasn’t the biological father of Jesus. God the Father is the Father. That’s biblical. But to say that because someone never called someone mother in the scripture means they are not their mother even if the woman gave birth to them? That is bizzare. If I never called my mother “mother” is she not my mother? It is not the title that makes them what they are, it is the role and actions. As I said before: Mary gave birth to Jesus, who is God, so Mary is the Mother of God. How does that not follow logic?

Are you disputing that Mary gave Jesus his Divinity? Because that is not the argument…we don’t believe Mary gave Jesus his divinity. That is the only way I can make sense of you saying that Mary is not the Mother of God. Maybe you think that is what our position is.

Negative. That’s not what I’m saying. What I’m saying is that that line of thought would lead you then to say that anyone in Mary’s line are somehow something of Jesus.

Jesus saw Mary just the way he sees you and me.
Matthew 12:47-50 - “Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.”

 

[Rocky]

That’s a missunderstanding of the explanation Paul gives about Mediator between God and Men.

Let me ask you, was I crucified for your sins? was the pope crucified for your sins? was Paul or anyone crucified for your sins and your salvation?
Answer is simple, no. Jesus was crucified, which makes him the “Mediator” between God and man, a High priest after the order of Melchisedec, that is the work of mediation.

We are witnesses for God.

So how did you come to faith in Jesus? on your own or because someone taught you or gave you the Scriptures to read. It wasn’t directly from God to you, but through a follower or followers of Christ. So that person or persons has mediated Christ to you. Without them you would not know Christ at all.

 

[mercygate]

Again, its a formality. If we want to follow along all that line. Then everyone in Mary’s line of heritage are something of God.

So that makes Abraham the holy “Grand father of God”, and that makes David also a “Grandfather of God”, etc etc… The idea is not according to scriptures.

And fortunately, the idea has nothing whatever to do with the teaching of the Catholic Church or the rest of Christianity either.

 

[Arglaze]

Quite. Harking to Gen 3:15 and the protoevangelium as well as to the “woman clothed with the sun” in Revelation. Christians understand that Mary is the New Eve. Eve, whose name means “mother of the living” became through sin “mother of all the dying.” Mary, Mother of God, became the new “mother of all the living” by bringing Christ into the world.

That’s taking prophecy out of Context and literal.

The woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet with a crown of 12 stars, is symbolic of the Chuch of God. Its normal in prophetic interpretation to see God’s people as a woman.

Mary was not given the wings of an eagle to fly into the wilderness where she stayed at for 1260 days, and no dragon spewed water out of her mouth to drown her, not the earth opened to save her.

That would be taking Revelation out of context. and I don’t see how from that verse you see the last claim that she became the mother of all living. Its prophecy taken out of context.

In fact the mother of all the living statement is only attributed to Eve. in Genesis 3:20

 

[Believe_85]

Negative. That’s not what I’m saying. What I’m saying is that that line of thought would lead you then to say that anyone in Mary’s line are somehow something of Jesus.

Jesus saw Mary just the way he sees you and me.
Matthew 12:47-50 - “Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.”

I cannot follow the reasoning you offer. If you don’t know what a mother is, I don’t know what to tell you. There’s nothing wrong with lineage, in fact it was required for Jesus to fulfill the Davidic covenant. And yes, since we are all God’s children, we are all family with Jesus. But only one woman expelled Jesus from her womb, and that was Mary.

 

[adstrinity]

That’s taking prophecy out of Context and literal.

The woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet with a crown of 12 stars, is symbolic of the Chuch of God. Its normal in prophetic interpretation to see God’s people as a woman.

Mary was not given the wings of an eagle to fly into the wilderness where she stayed at for 1260 days, and no dragon spewed water out of her mouth to drown her, not the earth opened to save her.

That would be taking Revelation out of context. and I don’t see how from that verse you see the last claim that she became the mother of all living. Its prophecy taken out of context.

In fact the mother of all the living statement is only attributed to Eve. in Genesis 3:20

…Ladies and Gentlemen, may I introduce to you, the author of Revelation.

 

[Believe_85]

That’s taking prophecy out of Context and literal.

The woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet with a crown of 12 stars, is symbolic of the Chuch of God. Its normal in prophetic interpretation to see God’s people as a woman.

Mary was not given the wings of an eagle to fly into the wilderness where she stayed at for 1260 days, and no dragon spewed water out of her mouth to drown her, not the earth opened to save her.

That would be taking Revelation out of context. and I don’t see how from that verse you see the last claim that she became the mother of all living. Its prophecy taken out of context.

In fact the mother of all the living statement is only attributed to Eve. in Genesis 3:20

We believe the woman in Revelations is the Catholic church.

 

[Arglaze]

So how did you come to faith in Jesus? on your own or because someone taught you or gave you the Scriptures to read. It wasn’t directly from God to you, but through a follower or followers of Christ. So that person or persons has mediated Christ to you. Without them you would not know Christ at all.

There are many terms you can use for the “mediator” word. I was born and raised in the SDA church, then wondered to other churches to learn what they believe, then through study of the scriptures came back to the SDA church.
In school I was also made to take Catholic and learn all the prayers, doctrines, etc.
Paul converted to God through work of the Holy Spirit. God is not restricted to human channels to witness, but he allows us to take part in the blessing of sharing the gospel.

You can give anyone the Bible, but that person comes to Christ by work of the Holy Spirit. Thats why you have so many people in churches that don’t even follow God, they are just members.
We are not mediators between God and men, Christ is. We are God’s witnesses to men.

I was not crucified for anyone, therefore I’m not the “Priest” or mediator, which is the right context of the Scripture for how Christ is a mediator.

 

[Arglaze]

We believe the woman in Revelations is the Catholic church.

I thought someone said the woman was Mary?

If you believe the woman in Revelation was the Catholic Church, then you are not far from the truth.