How do Catholics interpret the Book of Revelation?

[juliamajor]

"“An “Apocalypse,” in the terminology of early Jewish and Christian literature, is a revelation of hidden things given by God to some one of his chosen saints or (still oftener) the written account of such a revelation. The word is derived from the Greek ἀπōκάλυψις, “uncovering,” “disclosure”; a noun which does not appear at all in classical Greek, and in the later profane writers is not employed in any way that corresponds to the use above mentioned; it seems to have originated among Greek-speaking Jews, and then passed from them to the Christians, who developed it still further-’”'not predicting the future.
We see mary and Israel as the woman in Revelation-each is symbolic.Literal is taking the thousand years as an actual thousand years.Or the Four Horseman as really four guys running around on horse causing havoc , instead of symbols.
Revelation had a deeper and clearer meaning to those of early christian church. To them the symbols were as clear as day since apocalyptic literature was plentiful.Not so clear now, hence the difficulty in understanding it. I think the church was very smart not to put it’s stamp of approval on any one interpretation.As time goes on we are starting to understand the stresses and the response to the stressesof that time period. Unless we go back to the past in a time machine there are some things in Revelation that will always be a mystery.
The socio-cultural aspects of the scripture is a relatively new science in biblical interpretation but an important one.To study and try to grasp the culural, historical and sociological impact on the writing of scripture. What did this or that mean in the context of that time period.This is important in scripture but with an apocalyptic writing I think it is paramount.The books of Pilch, Malina, and Neyrey have given me a greater insight into the NT &make Christ’s words and actions even more powerful then I could possibly imagine

 

[pipper]

Is anyone aware that Revelation just barely made in into the canon by the skin of it’s teeth?

Look it up in a history of the church, or of the bible.

 

[juliamajor]

Is anyone aware that Revelation just barely made in into the canon by the skin of it’s teeth?

Look it up in a history of the church, or of the bible.

Yep-true-For the difficulties stated-it’s as clear as mud.

 

[pipper]

Yep-true-For the difficulties stated-it’s as clear as mud.

But that has never stopped people fro, getting unusual and even heretical teaching from this book has it?

I’m thinking mostly of cults like the Jehovahs Witnesses, and the Seventh Day Adventists that seem to base their entire theologies on Revelation and Daniel.

not to mention some of the “original” people on this very thread. yeah right the book of Revelation fortune tells that the “Mark of the Beast” is a barcode.

 

[juliamajor]

But that has never stopped people fro, getting unusual and even heretical teaching from this book has it?

I’m thinking mostly of cults like the Jehovahs Witnesses, and the Seventh Day Adventists that seem to base their entire theologies on Revelation and Daniel.

not to mention some of the “original” people on this very thread. yeah right the book of Revelation fortune tells that the “Mark of the Beast” is a barcode.

I’d write more about the barcode but I can’t stop laughing

 

[jmcrae]

Is anyone aware that Revelation just barely made in into the canon by the skin of it’s teeth?

Look it up in a history of the church, or of the bible.

Yes; it was the very last of the books to be accepted.

 

[EdOsiecki]

I’d write more about the barcode but I can’t stop laughing

Hi juliamajor I’m curious. For whom was the book of revelation written? ------- If it can’t be understood or interpreted why is it in the Bible?------- Rev 1:3 from the New American Catholic Bible states,“Blessed is the one who reads aloud and blessed are those who listen to this prophetic message and HEED what is written in it, for the appointed time is near.” I capitalized “heed” because if we are not able to interpret or understand it how can anyone heed to it’s writings?------- Is Rev 1:3 to be understood literally, symbolically or ignored?------- My posts on #37 & #45 is the way I understand the Mark of the Beast. Am I wrong, if so why?------- Would you please be so kind and personally answer all five questions. Thank you in advance ED O.

 

[jmcrae]

Hi juliamajor I’m curious. For whom was the book of revelation written? ------- If it can’t be understood or interpreted why is it in the Bible?------- Rev 1:3 from the New American Catholic Bible states,“Blessed is the one who reads aloud and blessed are those who listen to this prophetic message and HEED what is written in it, for the appointed time is near.” I capitalized “heed” because if we are not able to interpret or understand it how can anyone heed to it’s writings?------- Is Rev 1:3 to be understood literally, symbolically or ignored?------- My posts on #37 & #45 is the way I understand the Mark of the Beast. Am I wrong, if so why?------- Would you please be so kind and personally answer all five questions. Thank you in advance ED O.

Hi, Ed;

St John didn’t even consider the fact that we would be trying to interpret his writings nearly 2,000 years after he had written them. His primary audience was Christians who were in danger of being captured and killed by both pagans and Jews - it was an extremely hostile environment.

The idea that the Book of Revelation is a kind of spiritualized look at the Mass is really what makes the most sense to me, along with the warnings about the various enemies of the Church in those days.

The application for today is that the Mass is still our way of being in direct contact with Heaven, and that the Church still has enemies, and that we still need to be wary of them, because of their false doctrines, their deceptions, and the fact that they want to destroy our religion.

However, to think that 'the beast" is anyone other than Nero (other than in the most allegorical sense) is to misunderstand the purpose of this book. I mean, yes, we have people who, like Nero, blame all of the problems of the world on the Church, and want to cause others to hate the Church - however, there is no specific person who is “the beast” coming in the future. St. John was speaking to people of his own time, about events occurring in his own time, in a highly stylized way to prevent enemies of the Church from understanding what he was talking about.

 

[juliamajor]

Hi juliamajor I’m curious. For whom was the book of revelation written? ------- If it can’t be understood or interpreted why is it in the Bible?------- Rev 1:3 from the New American Catholic Bible states,“Blessed is the one who reads aloud and blessed are those who listen to this prophetic message and HEED what is written in it, for the appointed time is near.” I capitalized “heed” because if we are not able to interpret or understand it how can anyone heed to it’s writings?------- Is Rev 1:3 to be understood literally, symbolically or ignored?------- My posts on #37 & #45 is the way I understand the Mark of the Beast. Am I wrong, if so why?------- Would you please be so kind and personally answer all five questions. Thank you in advance ED O.

First-like most apocalyptic writings it was for the then- the images, were pertinent for their generation.It’s not saying we can’t get anything out of it.Some say it’s the about the mass- it may be. If things are so easily interpreted in Rev. Why would it take so long to grasp?
Imagery in apocalyptics are vvivid enigmatic,and hard to get- because they were meant to lift the spirits of those in the church under attack in their time period.Would some one born inthis day and age understand the culture,the sociological, political images of the victorian period?Would they understand images that were part and parcel of their political,arena?Those of art, phrases,slangs? Use of language- this shifts with time under the stresses of history,changes rapidly. A phrase like "twenty three scoodoo’from the twenties is meaingless to us.How many would even know the political and social dynamics 60yrs ago. ? That’s in our own century in our own country.Now go two thousand years back, into a asian culture that 's social , cultural, linguistic religious,histoical views are totally different.That’s why the bible should be studied-simply so it can be undertood better. How you understand revealtion is NOT the same way you understand the Gospel(totally different genre) or the books of the OT. Each has to be understood and studied separately in order to understand the linkage among the books.
It’s not impossible to understand Revelation -but it requires in depth study-and to state this is what that absolutely means borders on arrogance. I’ve studied and studied Revelation-and still have difficulty grasping it. Imagery is so out there you could read almost anything into it. One of the difficulities many early Church fathers had with it. And they were closer in time to Revelation then we are. If they had difficulty, and they are closer in time and place then we are, how can it be easier for us.If you have churches who are not towing the line of course john want to be heeded.-ill be back later!

 

[diggerdomer]

Hi juliamajor I’m curious. For whom was the book of revelation written? ------- If it can’t be understood or interpreted why is it in the Bible?------- Rev 1:3 from the New American Catholic Bible states,“Blessed is the one who reads aloud and blessed are those who listen to this prophetic message and HEED what is written in it, for the appointed time is near.” I capitalized “heed” because if we are not able to interpret or understand it how can anyone heed to it’s writings?------- Is Rev 1:3 to be understood literally, symbolically or ignored?------- My posts on #37 & #45 is the way I understand the Mark of the Beast. Am I wrong, if so why?------- Would you please be so kind and personally answer all five questions. Thank you in advance ED O.

Even though I’m not juliamajor, as you posted this publicly I’d like to add my own responses to your questions:

1. Christians.
2. It can be understood and interpreted.
3. See #2
4. Yes.
5. You may be right. You may be wrong. The Church doesn’t teach either one, nor deny either one.

 

[EdOsiecki]

First-like most apocalyptic writings it was for the then- the images, were pertinent for their generation.It’s not saying we can’t get anything out of it.Some say it’s the about the mass- it may be. If things are so easily interpreted in Rev. Why would it take so long to grasp?
Imagery in apocalyptics are vvivid enigmatic,and hard to get- because they were meant to lift the spirits of those in the church under attack in their time period.Would some one born inthis day and age understand the culture,the sociological, political images of the victorian period?Would they understand images that were part and parcel of their political,arena?Those of art, phrases,slangs? Use of language- this shifts with time under the stresses of history,changes rapidly. A phrase like "twenty three scoodoo’from the twenties is meaingless to us.How many would even know the political and social dynamics 60yrs ago. ? That’s in our own century in our own country.Now go two thousand years back, into a asian culture that 's social , cultural, linguistic religious,histoical views are totally different.That’s why the bible should be studied-simply so it can be undertood better. How you understand revealtion is NOT the same way you understand the Gospel(totally different genre) or the books of the OT. Each has to be understood and studied separately in order to understand the linkage among the books.
It’s not impossible to understand Revelation -but it requires in depth study-and to state this is what that absolutely means borders on arrogance. I’ve studied and studied Revelation-and still have difficulty grasping it. Imagery is so out there you could read almost anything into it. One of the difficulities many early Church fathers had with it. And they were closer in time to Revelation then we are. If they had difficulty, and they are closer in time and place then we are, how can it be easier for us.If you have churches who are not towing the line of course john want to be heeded.-ill be back later!

Thank you juliamajor for your reply. I was hoping for individual answers to my five questions but that’s okay. Let’s see if we can agree or friendly disagree on one question at a time okay? In Mat 24:21 Jesus speaks about the coming great tribulation, Rev 7:13-14 In heaven, one of the elders asked who are these people? he was told, " These are they who have come out of the great tribulation. ------ Also 1Thes 1:10 states, we are waiting for Jesus to come, and delivers us from the wrath to come. Rev 3:10 states, Jesus keeps us safe from the great tribulation to come upon the whole world. Since the Great Tribulation hasn’t come yet, doesn’t these Scriptures refer to us rather than the 1st century believers? To me, it makes perfect sense to take these Scriptures literally. What’s your view? ED O.

 

[diggerdomer]

I was hoping for individual answers to my five questions but that’s okay.

I thought my response gave you that.

Your thoughts?

 

[EdOsiecki]

I thought my response gave you that.

Your thoughts?

Hi diggerdomer and thank you for your reply. My 4th question to juliamajor was , “should the book of revelation be iterpreted literally, symbolically or ignored.” you answered “yes”. I take that to mean to be ignored. If so, why then is it in the Bible and how can we heed what’s written in it? juliamajor states it was written for the first century church, “it was for the then”. What’s your thought on this? ED O.

 

[diggerdomer]

Hi diggerdomer and thank you for your reply. My 4th question to juliamajor was , “should the book of revelation be iterpreted literally, symbolically or ignored.” you answered “yes”. I take that to mean to be ignored. If so, why then is it in the Bible and how can we heed what’s written in it? juliamajor states it was written for the first century church, “it was for the then”. What’s your thought on this? ED O.

Oops, sorry, I meant “yes” to symbolically and literally. I did not mean “yes” to ignored. My mistake, thanks for catching it.

 

[jmcrae]

There are four senses of Scripture: the literal sense (the plain meaning), the allegorical (where various elements of the text are taken to represent universal archetypes), the anagogical (where the sequence of events in the story is applied to a current situation in our own life), and the moral (where you learn from the story something about God’s laws and how to apply them in a practical way).

Nearly every passage of scripture can be understood in all four senses - we must never limit ourselves to an “either/or” mentality, when studying the Scriptures.

 

[EdOsiecki]

There are four senses of Scripture: the literal sense (the plain meaning), the allegorical (where various elements of the text are taken to represent universal archetypes), the anagogical (where the sequence of events in the story is applied to a current situation in our own life), and the moral (where you learn from the story something about God’s laws and how to apply them in a practical way).

Nearly every passage of scripture can be understood in all four senses - we must never limit ourselves to an “either/or” mentality, when studying the Scriptures.

Hi jmcrae it’s good to hear your response. Would you please be so kind and explain exactly what you mean in your post 68 that the book of Revelation is a kind of spiritualized look at the Mass. Thanks I’ll appreciate hearing from you. ED O.

 

[ryanoneil]

In Mat 24:15 “So when you see standing in the holy place, the abomination that causes desolation, spoken of through the PROPHET Daniel let the reader understand” This is a future prediction for the nation of Isreal.

Yes, a future prediction in the beginning of the first century.

In Mat 24:21 Jesus speaks about the coming great tribulation, Rev 7:13-14 In heaven, one of the elders asked who are these people? he was told, " These are they who have come out of the great tribulation. ------ Also 1Thes 1:10 states, we are waiting for Jesus to come, and delivers us from the wrath to come. Rev 3:10 states, Jesus keeps us safe from the great tribulation to come upon the whole world. Since the Great Tribulation hasn’t come yet, doesn’t these Scriptures refer to us rather than the 1st century believers? To me, it makes perfect sense to take these Scriptures literally. What’s your view? ED O.

Jesus drew from Daniel to announce the Temple’s ultimate destruction and desecration by the Roman army in 70 A.D.

"When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, know that its desolation is at hand. Then those in Judea must flee to the mountains. Let those within the city escape from it, and let those in the countryside not enter the city, for these days are the time of punishment when all the scriptures are fulfilled. (Luke 21:20-22)

That was the tribulation to come. Jesus warned the early Christians to escape Jerusalem before it’s judgment and to resist the tempation to defend the city (because Jesus’ new Church was so young and fragile that it risked being destoyed). It has since grown into a mountain and will never be that vulnerable.

You must also recognize that “throught the whole world” speaks of the scope of Christianity’s presence in the Roman Empire.

**First, I give thanks to my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is heralded throughout the world. (Rom 1:8)

Of this you have already heard through the word of truth, the gospel, that has come to you. Just as in the whole world it is bearing fruit and growing, so also among you, from the day you heard it and came to know the grace of God in truth. . . provided that you persevere in the faith, firmly grounded, stable, and not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, am a minister. (Col 1:5a-6, 23)**

IF there is to be a future second fulfillment of the verses you cite, it will happen during Rev 20:8-9.

 

[ryanoneil]

Hi jmcrae it’s good to hear your response. Would you please be so kind and explain exactly what you mean in your post 68 that the book of Revelation is a kind of spiritualized look at the Mass. Thanks I’ll appreciate hearing from you. ED O.

I apologize for stealing jmcrae’s thunder and being preemptive, and hope you don’t mind if I give my abreviated two cents worth. Throughout the book of Revelation, John sees visions of what is happening in heaven and other things happening on earth. The celebration in heaven is over Jesus’ eternal presentation, of his sacrifice, to the Father (which is why he appears as a priest and a lamb who is slain). On earth they are celebrating the Mass which is how we join the heavenly celebration here on earth. The Mass is the weapon against the dragon and the beasts. They proclaim the truth of Christ through their actions in the liturgy instead of armed conflict with the beast. The dragon and beast’s weapons are deception and force.

Historically, the deception was that Ceasar was god (which is why sacrifice to Ceasar was demanded in the town square if you wanted to do business). The force was the death penalty if you didn’t comply. If you complied with the emperor sacrifice you recieved the mark of the beast and were damned for idol worship. If you didn’t comply you recieved God’s mark, but many paid with their life. The Apocalypse reveals that Christ’s true sacrifice, celebrated in the Mass, is what leads to everlasting life and the defeat of all beast’s throughout history (regardless of the deception or force used against God’s people).

 

[jmcrae]

Hi jmcrae it’s good to hear your response. Would you please be so kind and explain exactly what you mean in your post 68 that the book of Revelation is a kind of spiritualized look at the Mass. Thanks I’ll appreciate hearing from you. ED O.

Well, essentiallyl, the structure of the book is very similar to the structure of the Mass - we begin with messages of prophecy to the Churches (Liturgy of the Word), followed by the Lamb Himself opening the Scroll (the Gospel and Homily) which is then followed by the worship of the heavenly beings (Liturgy of the Eucharist, beginning with the Holy Holy Holy.)

But it’s not a “first you do this, and then you do this” list of instructions like the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, but rather, each event that happens in the story corresponds with the event that would happen at that time in the Mass. (The heavenly beings start singing “Holy Holy Holy” after all of the messages have been sent and then the Elders have brought the incense burners full of prayers, for example, just as the people at Mass start singing the Holy Holy Holy after the Gospel and Homily have been completed,and after the Prayers of the Faithful have been lifted up.)

It made my heart pound really hard, the first time I ever noticed that.

 

[pipper]

Hi jmcrae it’s good to hear your response. Would you please be so kind and explain exactly what you mean in your post 68 that the book of Revelation is a kind of spiritualized look at the Mass. Thanks I’ll appreciate hearing from you. ED O.

Ed why are you here to begin with? I am sure you can read the question posted at the begining and on every response. To wit “How do CATHOLICS interpret the Book of Revelation”?

Since you are certainly NO Catholic, but a member of the church of “etc”. You have absolutely no business trying to proselytise Catholics away from the One, Holy, Catholic, church.