How do Catholic's read/understand

[ronald_g_w]

Quote:
KJV - 1 Cor. 15:29
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

The Holy Bible Catholic Edition - 1 Cor. 15:29
Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead ? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf ?

Would this not mean that baptisms were done on behalf of those that are dead by proxy ?

 

[AshleyBelle]

Please forgive me if my theology is not correct…but I will do my best to explain my own understanding of this passage

If you take this passage in the entirety of its context, Paul is speaking about our hope for the ressurection.

Here is the passage a little more fully:

1 Corinthians
Chapter 15
1
1 2 Now I am reminding you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you indeed received and in which you also stand.
2
Through it you are also being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
3
3 For I handed on to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures;
4
that he was buried; that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures;
5
that he appeared to Cephas, then to the Twelve.
6
After that, he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at once, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.
7
After that he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.
8
Last of all, as to one born abnormally, he appeared to me.
9
For I am the least 4 of the apostles, not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10
But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me has not been ineffective. Indeed, I have toiled harder than all of them; not I, however, but the grace of God (that is) with me.
11
Therefore, whether it be I or they, so we preach and so you believed.
12
5 But if Christ is preached as raised from the dead, how can some among you say there is no resurrection of the dead?
13
If there is no resurrection of the dead, then neither has Christ been raised.
14
And if Christ has not been raised, then empty (too) is our preaching; empty, too, your faith.
15
Then we are also false witnesses to God, because we testified against God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if in fact the dead are not raised.
16
For if the dead are not raised, neither has Christ been raised,
17
and if Christ has not been raised, 6 your faith is vain; you are still in your sins.
18
Then those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
19
If for this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are the most pitiable people of all.
20
7 8 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
21
9 For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead came also through a human being.
22
For just as in Adam all die, so too in Christ shall all be brought to life,
23
but each one in proper order: Christ the firstfruits; then, at his coming, those who belong to Christ;
24
then comes the end, 10 when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has destroyed every sovereignty and every authority and power.
25
For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26
11 The last enemy to be destroyed is death,
27
12 for “he subjected everything under his feet.” But when it says that everything has been subjected, it is clear that it excludes the one who subjected everything to him.
28
When everything is subjected to him, then the Son himself will (also) be subjected to the one who subjected everything to him, so that God may be all in all.
29
13 14 Otherwise, what will people accomplish by having themselves baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, then why are they having themselves baptized for them?
30
15 Moreover, why are we endangering ourselves all the time?
31
Every day I face death; I swear it by the pride in you (brothers) that I have in Christ Jesus our Lord.

As I understand it is referring speciffically to the "baptism of blood."  Or rather, martyrs.

We believe there are three types of baptism: “Baptism of desire, Baptism by water, and Baptism of blood.”

Paul seems to be speaking about the ressurection being our hope, for those martyrs who gave their lives for the faith. For if we do not believe Christ was ressurected, or that the ressurection of the dead will occur, then there is no hope for those who were baptized by the blood, or martyred. Because their hope for salvation rests on the ressurection of the dead.

He’s asking “what did they accomplish be BEING martyred…if there is no ressurection of the dead?”
Does that make sense? I hope I explained that properly, I’m sure somebody else can make it a little clearer than I did

 

[ronald_g_w]

We believe there are three types of baptism: “Baptism of desire, Baptism by water, and Baptism of blood.”

Got the jist of your thoughts but do not see how you come to this.

Baptism of desire,
Baptism by water,
Baptism of blood." Where is this stated in scripture ?

 

[AshleyBelle]

Got the jist of your thoughts but do not see how you come to this.

Baptism of desire,
Baptism by water,
Baptism of blood." Where is this stated in scripture ?

You asked how Catholics interpret it, and the fact is, we have always understood three "types" of baptism. This is why we believe Martyrs are able to "bypass" purgatory..because it is through the baptism of blood that they recieve the sacremental grace :)

There are some great articles in the CA Library about Baptism… You won’t find these three “speciffically in the scripture” because Sola Scriptura is a man made doctrine we do not believe in. The fact is, it’s a tradition and teaching of the church Rather than condemn us because you don’t understand it, I suggest reading some of the great articles here!

 

[ronald_g_w]

13 14 Otherwise, what will people accomplish by having themselves baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, then why are they having themselves baptized for them?
30
15 Moreover, why are we endangering ourselves all the time?
31
Every day I face death; I swear it by the pride in you (brothers) that I have in Christ Jesus our Lord.

As I understand it is referring speciffically to the "baptism of blood."  Or rather, martyrs.

I’ve reread and honestly do not see how you read that this is relating to a baptism for martyrs, the only indication is Pauls coment that he is continualy laying his life on the line for the work of the Church, everthing else points to the reality that Jesus has risen and that we will aswell and if we believe this not we are denying the faith

Otherwise, what will people accomplish by having themselves baptized for the dead?

If I look at this question on its own it is related to the living being baptized for the dead nothing to do with martyrs

If the dead are not raised at all, then why are they having themselves baptized for them?

For them ? who is them ? the whole chapter tells me it is those that have past on gone to sleep.

 

[AshleyBelle]

I’ve reread and honestly do not see how you read that this is relating to a baptism for martyrs, the only indication is Pauls coment that he is continualy laying his life on the line for the work of the Church, everthing else points to the reality that Jesus has risen and that we will aswell and if we believe this not we are denying the faith

If I look at this question on its own it is related to the living being baptized for the dead nothing to do with martyrs

For them ? who is them ? the whole chapter tells me it is those that have past on gone to sleep.

Well sure if you look at any part of the Bible “on its own” you can pull out whatever you’d like from it!
If you continue down this passage, you see the verse:

32
If at Ephesus I fought with beasts, so to speak, what benefit was it to me? If the dead are not raised: “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”

As far as I understand, mormons (who interpret your presented verse as justification for baptism of the dead) don’t believe in drinking alcohol. But this verse is CLEARLY telling all of us to eat and drink! And it’s telling us not to worry about anything because hey…we all die anyway right?

You can’t just read the Bible out of context… you can’t just pull a passage out and use it to justify a doctrine. It is one living, breathing text…all scripture is meant to be read in the context of the rest of scripture… And all scripture is meant to be UNDERSTOOD in the light of tradition and magesterium

If you do not understand how Paul is talking about the martyrs in this passage, then I recommend reading up on what we believe about the baptism of blood.

You’re asking for a catholic interpretation, but you want to tell us that it’s wrong, because it doesn’t match your personal interpretation… That just isn’t the way TRUTH works, and it’s not the way Scriptures are to be used.

 

[ronald_g_w]

You asked how Catholics interpret it, and the fact is, we have always understood three “types” of baptism. This is why we believe Martyrs are able to “bypass” purgatory…because it is through the baptism of blood that they recieve the sacremental grace

There are some great articles in the CA Library about Baptism… You won’t find these three “speciffically in the scripture” because Sola Scriptura is a man made doctrine we do not believe in. The fact is, it’s a tradition and teaching of the church Rather than condemn us because you don’t understand it, I suggest reading some of the great articles here!

Ashley
No one is condemning anyone I am interested to know how you come to the conclussion that you have, only because I cant see it from the info that I have before me.
I am a very slow reader and need to sometimes read things a number of time so I find it easyer to just ask ? or make statements that others then respond to,
Thanks
Ronald

 

[AshleyBelle]

Ashley
No one is condemning anyone I am interested to know how you come to the conclussion that you have, only because I cant see it from the info that I have before me.
I am a very slow reader and need to sometimes read things a number of time so I find it easyer to just ask ? or make statements that others then respond to,
Thanks
Ronald

I’m sorry for flying off the handle a little there… If you were sincerely asking, you are one of the very few who come here without a false pretense

I'm not that scholarly, and I'm not sure if I could help you understand it that well.. my best advice would be to read up on what we mean by baptism of blood:)  My interpretation wasn't "mine" it was one I read from a Catholic source, to understand now how I see it, but to understand how the Church sees this passage.

 I need to head off for a little bit, but hopefully somebody more knowledgable can help you:)

 

[ronald_g_w]

Well sure if you look at any part of the Bible “on its own” you can pull out whatever you’d like from it!
If you continue down this passage, you see the verse:

32
If at Ephesus I fought with beasts, so to speak, what benefit was it to me? If the dead are not raised: “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”

As far as I understand, mormons (who interpret your presented verse as justification for baptism of the dead) don’t believe in drinking alcohol. But this verse is CLEARLY telling all of us to eat and drink! And it’s telling us not to worry about anything because hey…we all die anyway right?

Ashley
I too would eat and drink and not worry about any of this, “IF THE DEAD ARE NOT RAISED!” — BUT ---- they are so therefore I live my life to the best of my ablity with the understanding and knowledge that I have.

 

[AshleyBelle]

Ashley
I too would eat and drink and not worry about any of this, “IF THE DEAD ARE NOT RAISED!” — BUT ---- they are so therefore I live my life to the best of my ablity with the understanding and knowledge that I have.

Exactly But I was just illustrating how a verse can be pulled out of context and misunderstood.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Got the jist of your thoughts but do not see how you come to this.

Baptism of desire,
Baptism by water,
Baptism of blood." Where is this stated in scripture ?

you might not find anything in Scripture that is not clearly written to you. that is where understands comes.

what you will find clearly written is that Jesus our Lord gave the Church the power to bind and loose…

so if the Church has the authority given by Christ, then the Church acts on mercy and declares the Baptism of blood to those who died before being baptized in waters. they were killed because they came to believe it. we know of some who died this way. in those countries where conversion to Christ is pretty much a death sentence. some dont even get a chance to get batptized in waters. so the Church says they received the Baptism of blood…
hope this help you.

:byzsoc:

 

[JMJ_coder]

Here is what Saint John Chrysostom has to say:

Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead? if the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for the dead?

He takes in hand again another topic, establishing what he said at one time from what God does , and at another from the very things which they practice . And this also is no small plea for the defence of any cause when a man brings forward the gainsayers themselves as witnessing by their own actions what he affirms. What then is that which he means? Or will you that I should first mention how they who are infected with the Marcionite heresy pervert this expression? And I know indeed that I shall excite much laughter; nevertheless, even on this account most of all I will mention it that you may the more completely avoid this disease: viz., when anyCatechumen departs among them, having concealed the living man under the couch of the dead, they approach the corpse and talk with him, and ask him if he wishes to receive baptism; then when he makes no answer, he that is concealed underneath says in his stead that of course he should wish to be baptized; and so they baptize him instead of the departed, like men jesting upon the stage . So great power has the devil over the souls of careless sinners. Then being called to account, they allege this expression, saying that even the Apostle has said, They who are baptized for the dead. Do you see their extreme ridiculousness? Is it meet then to answer these things? I trow not; unless it were necessary to discourse with madmen of what they in their frenzy utter. But that none of the more exceedingly simple folk may be led captive, one must needs submit to answer even these men. As thus, if this was Paul’s meaning wherefore did God threaten him that is not baptized? For it is impossible that any should not be baptized henceforth, this being once devised: and besides, the fault no longer lies with the dead, but with the living. But to whom spoke he, Unless ye eat My flesh, and drink My blood, you have no life in yourselves? John 6:53 To the living, or to the dead, tell me? And again, Unless a man be born again of water and of the Spirit, he cannot see the kingdom of God. John 3:5 For if this be permitted, and there be no need of the mind of the receiver nor of his assent while he lives, what hinders both Greeks and Jews thus to become believers, other men after their decease doing these things in their stead?

But not to prolong fruitless toil in cutting asunder their petty spiders’ webs , come let us unfold unto you the force of this expression. What then is Paul speaking of?

 

[JMJ_coder]

1. But first I wish to remind you who are initiated of the response , which on that evening they who introduce you to the mysteries bid you make; and then I will also explain the saying of Paul: so this likewise will be clearer to you; we after all the other things adding this which Paul now says. And I desire indeed expressly to utter it, but I dare not on account of the uninitiated; for these add a difficulty to our exposition, compelling us either not to speak clearly or to declare unto them the ineffable mysteries. Nevertheless, as I may be able, I will speak as through a veil .

As thus: after the enunciation of those mystical and fearful words, and the awful rules of the doctrines which have come down from heaven, this also we add at the end when we are about to baptize, bidding them say, I believe in the resurrection of the dead, and upon this faith we are baptized. For after we have confessed this together with the rest, then at last are we let down into the fountain of those sacred streams. This therefore Paul recalling to their minds said, if there be no resurrection, why are you then baptized for the dead ? i.e., the dead bodies. For in fact with a view to this are you baptized, the resurrection of your dead body, believing that it no longer remains dead. And thou indeed in the words makest mention of a resurrection of the dead; but the priest, as in a kind of image, signifies to you by very deed the things which you have believed and confessed in words. When without a sign you believe, then he gives you the sign also; when you have done your own part, then also does God fully assure you. How and in what manner? By the water. For the being baptized and immersed and then emerging, is a symbol of the descent into Hades and return thence. Wherefore also Paul calls baptism a burial, saying, Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death. Romans 6:4 By this he makes that also which is to come credible, I mean, the resurrection of our bodies. For the blotting out sins is a much greater thing than the raising up of a body. And this Christ declaring, said, For whether is easier to say, Your sins are forgiven, or to say, Take up your bed, and walk? Matthew 9:5 The former is the more difficult, says He, but since you disbelieve it as being hidden, and make the easier instead of the more difficult the demonstration of my power, neither will I refuse to afford you this proof. Then says He to the paralytic, Arise, take up your bed, and go unto your house.

And how is this difficult, says one, when it is possible to kings also and rulers? For they too forgive adulterers and homicides. You are jesting, O man, who sayest these things. For to forgive sins with God only is possible. But rulers and kings, whether it is adulterers whom they forgive or homicides, release them indeed from the present punishment; but their sin they do not purge out. Though they should advance to offices them that have been forgiven, though they should invest them with the purple itself, though they should set the diadem upon their heads, yet so they would only make them kings, but could not free them from their sin. It being God alone who does this; which accordingly in the Laver of Regeneration He will bring to pass. For His grace touches the very soul, and thence plucks up the sin by the root. Here is the reason why he that has been forgiven by the king may be seen with his soul yet impure, but the soul of the baptized no longer so, but purer than the very sun-beams, and such as it was originally formed, nay rather much better than that. For it is blessed with a Spirit, on every side enkindling it and making its holiness intense. And as when you are recasting iron or gold you make it pure and new once more, just so the Holy Ghost also, recasting the soul in baptism as in a furnace and consuming its sins, causes it to glisten with more purity than all purest gold.

Further, the credibility of the resurrection of our bodies he signifies to you again from what follows: viz., that since sin brought in death, now that the root is dried up, one must not after that doubt of the destruction of the fruit. Therefore having first mentioned the forgiveness of sins, thou dost next confess also the resurrection of the dead; the one guides you as by hand on to the other.

Yet again, because the term Resurrection is not sufficient to indicate the whole: for many after rising have again departed, as those in the Old Testament, as Lazarus, as they at the time of the crucifixion: one is bid to say, and the life everlasting, that none may any longer have a notion of death after that resurrection.

These words therefore Paul recalling to their minds, says, What shall they do which are baptized for the dead? For if there be no resurrection, says he, these words are but scenery. If there be no resurrection, how persuade we them to believe things which we do not bestow? Just as if a person bidding another to deliver a document to the effect that he had received so much, should never give the sum named therein, yet after thesubscription should demand of him the specified monies. What then will remain for the subscriber to do, now that he has made himself responsible, without having received what he admitted he had received? This then he here says of those who are baptized also. What shall they do which are baptized, says he, having subscribed to the resurrection of dead bodies, and not receiving it, but suffering fraud? And what need was there at all of this confession, if the fact did not follow?"

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Quote:
KJV - 1 Cor. 15:29
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

The Holy Bible Catholic Edition - 1 Cor. 15:29
Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead ? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf ?

Would this not mean that baptisms were done on behalf of those that are dead by proxy ?

This passage references Maccabees:

The same philosophy appears to have existed in some Jewish circles. The earliest reference to the idea is from the history of the Hasmonaeans. Following the battle of Marisa in 163 BC, it was discovered that each of the Jewish soldiers killed in the fight had been guilty of concealing pagan idols beneath his clothing. In order to atone for their wrong, Judas Maccabaeus collected money from the survivors in order to purchase sacrificial animals for their comrades.

And when he had made a gathering throughout the company to the sum of two thousand drachmas of silver, he sent it to Jerusalem to offer a sin offering, doing therein very well and honestly, in that he was mindful of the resurrection: for if he had not hoped that they that were slain should have risen again, it had been superfluous and vain to pray for the dead.6 And also in that he perceived that there was great favour laid up for those that died godly, it was an holy and good thought. Whereupon he made a reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin. (2 Maccabees 12:43-46)

In a sense, sacrifice did in ancient Judaism what baptism does in Christianity: it cleansed from sin. Jesus is reported to have said to Nicodemus, “Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God” (John 3:5). If, therefore, baptism was so essential to eternal salvation, it is almost inconceivable that early Christianity would not have had a means whereby it could be administered to the righteous who died without having the opportunity to hear of Jesus’ atonement.

In Christianity, the work of salvation for the dead is depicted by Christ’s visit to the spirit world during the three days his body lay in the tomb. First expressed in the New Testament (John 5:25-29; 1 Peter 3:18-21), it is said that "for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."7

 

[Nita]

Here is some more commentary from the Geo. Haydock Bible footnotes:

Ver. 29. Who are baptized for the dead.[1] He still brings other proofs of the resurrection. This is a hard place, and the words are differently expounded. 1. Several late interpreters understand a metaphorical baptism, and that to be baptized for the dead, is to undertake self-denials, mortifications, and works of penance, in hopes of a happy resurrection; and this exposition agrees with what follows, of being exposed to dangers every hour, of dying daily, &c. But if this had been the apostle’s meaning, he would rather have said, Who baptize themselves. Besides, this exposition is not so much as mentioned in any of the ancient interpreters. 2. Some think that St. Paul tells the Corinthians that they ought not to question the resurrection of the dead, who had a custom among them, if any one died without baptism, to baptize another that was living for him; and this they did, fancying that such a baptism would be profitable to the dead person, in order to a happy resurrection. Tertullian mentions this custom in one or two places, and also St. Chrysostom on this place. But it does not seem probable that St. Paul would bring any argument of the resurrection from a custom which he himself could not approve, nor was ever approved in the Church. 3. St. Chrysostom and the Greek interpreters, who generally follow him, expound these words, who are baptized for the dead, as if it were the same as to say, who receive baptism with hopes that they themselves, and all the dead, will rise again; and therefore make a profession, when they are baptized, that they believe the resurrection. So that St. Paul here brings this proof among others, that they who have been made Christians, and continue Christians, cannot call in question the resurrection, which they professed to believe in their creed at their baptism, the creed being always repeated before they were baptized. 4. Others, by being baptized for the dead, understand those who begged and called for baptism when they were in danger of death, and would by no means go out of this world without being baptized, hoping thereby to have a happy resurrection of their bodies; so that to be baptized for the dead is the same as on the account of the state of the dead, which they were entering into. See St. Epiphanius, hær. viii. p. 144. Edit Petavii. (Witham) Some think the apostle here alludes to a ceremony then in use: but others, more probably, to the prayers and penitential labours performed by the primitive Christians for the souls of the faithful departed: or to the baptism of afflictions and sufferings undergone for sinners spiritually dead. (Challoner)
So, as you can see, there is no one official Catholic interpretation of this Scripture passage. It’s actually a puzzling passage. One thing is certain tho: Catholic teaching holds that the passage is not to be interpreted as meaning living persons can be baptized on behalf of those who died unbaptized.

 

[ralphinal]

Got the jist of your thoughts but do not see how you come to this.

Baptism of desire,

A man learns of JEsus. In this case, let’s say that he is in a prison in a totalitarian country. He decides to become a Christian. However, he cannot be physically baptised. The concept of a baptism of desire is that God knows that the person would have become Christian if allowed to, and is therefore treated as such. This is not specifically stated in Scripture, but it flowes naturally from it as long as we understand that God is merciful

Baptism by water,

That one is not as easy as you would think. There are multiple denominations that deny the need for it at all.

Baptism of blood." Where is this stated in scripture ?

Again, this one is not specifically stated in Scriptures. The classic example given is that of someone who willingly dies for the faith even though they are not a formal member of it. We understand that to die for the Gosple is a wonderful gift. We also know that to die for one’s friends is the greatest example of love: it is a true imatation of Christ. The Church also teaches that willing martyrdom is a gift from God. The natural human response to the threat of death is to fight it, resist it in any way possible. Singing while being dragged to the gallows is NOT a normal thing to do. The Church teaches that those who posses this level of the Holy Spirit would not be denied heaven, though they are not Christian on earth.

 

[ronald_g_w]

Thanks for your posts, working through them

 

[bpbasilphx]

**
Would this not mean that baptisms were done on behalf of those that are dead by proxy ?**

**Not in the Church, but by heretics.

The context of this verse is discussing the Resurrection. Note that it says, “Why are THEY baptized for the dead,” not “Why do WE baptize for the dead.”

To paraphrase St. Paul, “If there is no resurrection of the dead, why do the heretics baptize for the dead? Even they believe in the resurrection.”**

 

[Ruthie]

Well, I read it as part of the whole. This chapter deals with the resurrection. From v. 1 to v. 34, Paul is addressing those Corinthians who are having trouble believing that the dead will be raised.

His first argument is fairly simple.

I Cor 15:1-11 shows that Christ was raised from the dead.

Verses 12-19 say that if Christ wasn’t raised from the dead, then all we preach is a lie. “If for this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are of all men most to be pitied.”

He then restates his first argument, bringing in more spiritual aspects.

Verses 20-28 say, since Christ was indeed raised, so shall we be. “For in Adam, all die,” “The last enemy to be destroyed is death.” “…that God may be everything to everyone.”

Verses 29-34: If the dead are not raised, why do we bother? Why are we baptized, if nothing comes of it? Why does Paul fight so hard and “die every day”? If this earthly life is all there is, why not just live in selfish pleasure?

Can you see that baptism is only mentioned as part of the argument?

The “they” that he speaks of are the same persons as the dead. I.e. they are baptized for their own selves, dead in sin, regenerated by the water of baptism. If Paul had meant to say that we can be baptized on behalf of someone else who is already dead, he would not have just dropped two sentences about it and gone on with his original argument. He would have talked about it more and given us instruction in how to do it.

Not only that, but it would be reflected elsewhere in the Bible. Is it? No.

God bless us all,

Ruthie

 

[ronald_g_w]

Well, I read it as part of the whole. This chapter deals with the resurrection. From v. 1 to v. 34, Paul is addressing those Corinthians who are having trouble believing that the dead will be raised.

His first argument is fairly simple.

I Cor 15:1-11 shows that Christ was raised from the dead.

Verses 12-19 say that if Christ wasn’t raised from the dead, then all we preach is a lie. “If for this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are of all men most to be pitied.”

He then restates his first argument, bringing in more spiritual aspects.

Verses 20-28 say, since Christ was indeed raised, so shall we be. “For in Adam, all die,” “The last enemy to be destroyed is death.” “…that God may be everything to everyone.”

Verses 29-34: If the dead are not raised, why do we bother? Why are we baptized, if nothing comes of it? Why does Paul fight so hard and “die every day”? If this earthly life is all there is, why not just live in selfish pleasure?

Can you see that baptism is only mentioned as part of the argument?

The “they” that he speaks of are the same persons as the dead. I.e. they are baptized for their own selves, dead in sin, regenerated by the water of baptism. If Paul had meant to say that we can be baptized on behalf of someone else who is already dead, he would not have just dropped two sentences about it and gone on with his original argument. He would have talked about it more and given us instruction in how to do it.

Not only that, but it would be reflected elsewhere in the Bible. Is it? No.

God bless us all,

Ruthie

KJV - 1 Cor. 15:29
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

The Holy Bible Catholic Edition - 1 Cor. 15:29
Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead ? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf ?

Ruthie read the Catholic Edition. Yes the chapter is dealing with the resurection but is also dealing with doing baptisms on behalf of those who dead

1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.