How do Catholics understand the commandment not to bow down to images?

[mdgspencer]

But Catholics do not worship what statues represent. People do not worship the person the statue of Lincoln in the Lincoln Memorial in the U.S. capital represents. Or when it comes to the statues of historical figures in public places in cities. Simply having a statue does not automatically mean you worship it. Nor is the fact that Catholics have statues of saints and angels automatically mean Catholics worship them. You are right to bring up this question here, since the best way to find out what Catholics do is to ask Catholics.

This is true, but then again, even the pagans do not actually worship the stone statue, they worship what it represents, the same thing we christians are doing.

 

[boomerang]

Catholics understand the “second commandment” the same way the Jews do. It is a prohibition on building idols of false gods. Remember, the commandments weren’t numbered in the original scriptures. The first four commandments are addressing the same topic: There is only one God. He, alone, is to be worshiped. When you add a numbering system, the so-called “second” commandment seems ripe to be taken out of context: (No images of anything at all! Period!) But that is not what is at the heart of the second commandment. It’s about false gods.

If it were merely about images, there is no way God would have condoned the bronze serpent, the cherubim on the Ark, the graven images of flowers, fruit and trees all over the walls of the Temple of Solomon and the twelve bronze bulls outside the Temple. In fact, I don’t think He would have incarnated Himself as Jesus, because Our Lord is an image, really. The image of the Father.

Yes, Catholics do kneel before some statues or paintings of real people. It’s a respect thing. It’s not a worshiping-false-gods thing.

Check out these pictures on the walls of an early 200’s AD synagogue:
http://static.sacred-destinations.com/img/975/gohistoric_22579_m.jpg

http://static.sacred-destinations.com/img/085/gohistoric_22580_m.jpg

This is from a fifth-century synagogue:
http://www.artic.edu/sites/default/...-Synagogue-Israel_Roman_360.png?itok=RWZOG-Sj

If the Jews didn’t have a problem with images, why should we?

 

[mikekle]

But Catholics do not worship what statues represent. People do not worship the person the statue of Lincoln in the Lincoln Memorial in the U.S. capital represents. Or when it comes to the statues of historical figures in public places in cities. Simply having a statue does not automatically mean you worship it. Nor is the fact that Catholics have statues of saints and angels automatically mean Catholics worship them. You are right to bring up this question here, since the best way to find out what Catholics do is to ask Catholics.

Well, no people do not worship statues of historical figures, not even what they represent. but we do worship what our religious statues represent, the Crucifx with Jesus on it, statues of Mary, etc. christians ARE worshiping what those statues represent.

Ive never heard of any group that worships the literal statue though, not even those folks who believe in the ancient greek gods, Zeus, etc they realize the statues are just representative of the actual gods, who are not within the statues.

Personally I dont have any religious statues, my crucifix is one without Jesus on it, although Im not sure why this law says not to have ANY graven images of thing beneath the water…not sure why anyone would have such a thing in the first place in this context?

 

[Wesrock]

Statues and icons are not mediators in themselves. If I don’t have a crucifix, or if I don’t have a statue of Jesus or the Virgin Mary or other Saints, it doesn’t make my prayers and petitions worthless. They help aid focus and direct attention perhaps, but they are not any type of necessary equipment or power of themselves.

Jacob bowed before his brother Esau. Joshua son of Nun and Daniel bowed before angels. These external acts of veneration/respect were not understood to be the same as adoration.

 

[michaelhager]

I’m sorry, I’m not sure I understand what you are getting at here. Are you saying that there are certain images you can kneel before and not others? As in, you are only allowed to kneel and pray before an image of something/someone real and specific, not general like a dove or heaven because we haven’t seen it to know what it looks like? I’m probably not using the best terminology here…I hope you understand what I’m asking.

When we kneel, it is in deference to our God. We may kneel to pray before a tree in the wilderness. It doesn’t mean we are worshiping the tree. In point of fact we are not required to kneel before anything, it is a gesture of humbleness in the presence of our Lord or His saints. While one can pray in practically any position, standing, sitting, laying, walking, running or otherwise physically engaged in our lives, kneeling puts us in a position of reverence that helps us to concentrate on the holiness of prayer. it is not required, but rather helpful to our mindset in putting our selves before the Lord.

In regards to the ten commandments, here is a study of the differences and similarities of the Protestant and the Catholic versions:

And here is a PowerPoint created for a discussion of the same topic for our parish.

As a protestant convert to Catholicism myself, I hope these help!

God bless!

 

[HelenRose]

Thank for the link. I’ll look at that! I think some in this thread may have misunderstood the intention behind my question. I’m not questioning whether Catholics worship statues. As my other thread stated, I quite liked the Good Friday service, which was my first experience with veneration. It felt right and proper to me. My question was more one of how the commandment is understood in light of the practice of kneeling before statues in the Catholic faith. I was in no way trying to be passive aggressive or something along those lines. I am only looking for greater understanding of the scriptures. I’m finding that generally speaking, the Catholics approach Scripture much differently than Protestants do. I find I am continually enlightened when I read Catholic theology, even though I have been a Christian since my childhood.

I appreciate you position and understand. It is sometimes a knee jerk reaction by me to assume that our beliefs are being attacked when actually someone is just asking a question. The Catholics I know are very very touchy about Mary and often draw swords when no swords are needed. In fact Mary never needs swords at all. You don’t need to be a Catholic to appreciate who Mary is. I was surprised to find out that Muslims venerate Her and love Her.

I believe in my heart that a great misunderstanding about Mary has taken place. I believe that Jesus loves us so very much He knows that we need a Mother who will never desert us. She has no power of Her own. Her only power is the love She has for Her Son and for us.

The Rosary is a Her way of teaching us. If you know the stories of Jesus you will find them in the Rosary. The Joyful Mysteries are the stories of His childhood. The Luminous Mysteries are the stories of His time preaching on Earth. the Sorrowful Mysteries are the sad stories of His passion. The Glorious Mysteries are the stories of His Resurrection, Ascension, Coming of the Holy Spirit and Mary’s own reward in Heaven. These stories are seen through the loving eyes of a loving mother.

I am a convert to Catholicism. I lost nothing of my love for Christ or my love for the Bible and I gained so much more. It is a journey to be sure. Sometimes a rocky journey but one that I will never regret.

 

[Della]

Well, no people do not worship statues of historical figures, not even what they represent. but we do worship what our religious statues represent, the Crucifx with Jesus on it, statues of Mary, etc. christians ARE worshiping what those statues represent.

Ah, no we’re not. Worship entails offering sacrifices. We do not offer sacrifices to images of any kind–not even to those of Christ himself.

Ive never heard of any group that worships the literal statue though, not even those folks who believe in the ancient greek gods, Zeus, etc they realize the statues are just representative of the actual gods, who are not within the statues.

They offered sacrifices to the statues, which is worship.

Personally I dont have any religious statues, my crucifix is one without Jesus on it, although Im not sure why this law says not to have ANY graven images of thing beneath the water…not sure why anyone would have such a thing in the first place in this context?

It says not to have any images in order to worship them–to offer sacrifices to them. That’s it, that’s all. We are not to worship nature, but the God of nature.

Statues, pictures, icons, etc. of saints and of the Lord are perfectly fine since they are merely aids to faith and prayer, and nothing more than that.

 

[Beryllos]

… I’m not questioning whether Catholics worship statues… I was in no way trying to be passive aggressive or something along those lines. I am only looking for greater understanding of the scriptures…

… It is sometimes a knee jerk reaction by me to assume that our beliefs are being attacked when actually someone is just asking a question. The Catholics I know are very very touchy about Mary and often draw swords when no swords are needed…

Jennifer, Thanks for the clarification, and I’m sorry to have draw my sword so easily!

 

[Todd977]

The commandment against graven images, i.e., 3-dimensional images, is considered a subordinate clause of the commandment against having strange gods. Traditionally, Catholics consider both commandments parts of the First Commandment. In other words, the context of the commandment against graven images is the offering divine worship (latria) to anything besides the one true God. Thus, graven images for other purposes are not prohibited. So, you are not breaking a Commandment if you kneel in front of a statue as long as you are not kneeling in front of a statue with the intention of offering that statue the divine worship (latria) that is reserved to the one true God.

 

[Jennifer132]

The commandment against graven images, i.e., 3-dimensional images, is considered a subordinate clause of the commandment against having strange gods. Traditionally, Catholics consider both commandments parts of the First Commandment. In other words, the context of the commandment against graven images is the offering divine worship (latria) to anything besides the one true God. Thus, graven images for other purposes are not prohibited. So, you are not breaking a Commandment if you kneel in front of a statue as long as you are not kneeling in front of a statue with the intention of offering that statue the divine worship (latria) that is reserved to the one true God.

What a great answer. Clear and to the point. Thank you!

 

[Jennifer132]

Jennifer, Thanks for the clarification, and I’m sorry to have draw my sword so easily!

Not at all. I understand it’s a touchy subject.

 

[bogeydogg]

Its been said but it bears repeating. When, for example, we pray the Rosary of the Blessed Virgin we are not in fact praying to her as God. If you were ask your dear old aunt Mable (or for that matter ask your best friend to get her dear old aunt Mable) to pray for a sick loved one no one would think to accuse you of worshipping dear old aunt Mable. In the same way Jesus upon the cross told the disciple whom He loved “behold your mother”. Now this is not merely that Jesus was asking John to take care of Mary (afterall she is regularly seen in the company of other family and so it would be silly to think He was merely asking for her care) but rather Jesus is asking an Apostle to acknowledge that Mary is his mother. And Jesus told the Apostles that when we receive their teaching we also receive Him. So it is that Mary is also our mother. And the rosary quite clearly says “pray for us now and in the hour of death”. This is hardly akin to worship, but rather asking that the Blessed Virgin, the Mother of God (as declared by the council of Chalcedon which protestants recognize) and also our mother in the faith to pray for us that our petitions to God through Jesus will be heard and answered.

And as far as the graven images thing I suggest you find yourself a copy of Luther’s Smaller Catechism because in there he lists the commandments. And the listing he uses is the Augustinian listing which contains no command against graven images (because after all God clearly commands the Israelites to make graven images of angels, pomegranates, etc) but has what you probably think of as the Tenth Commandment broken into two separate commands

1. You shall not covet your neighbors wife
2. You shall not covet your neighbors possessions

Which actually makes a lot more sense given that my wife is my wife and not my possession.

So what gives? Why do protestants learn there is a specific command against graven images? The answer is John Calvin. When Calvin was making his listing of the commandments he included the wives as property (an interesting insight into this protestant hero’s thinking) and broke up the command against idolatry to specifically include a command against graven images. For 1600 years the Church had no such command but Calvin placed it there because Clavin was looking to break up the Catholic Church and replace its political power with the political power that he was fomenting in Geneva Switzerland. And for the last 400+ years protestants (myself having been raised in the same tradition) believed that Catholics were ignoring the clear teaching of the Bible, when in fact it was the protestants who introduced a new teaching, altered the Word of God, and created (for political ends) a teaching that up to that point had been foreign in Church history.

Just something to think about

 

[michaelhager]

Well, no people do not worship statues of historical figures, not even what they represent. but we do worship what our religious statues represent, the Crucifx with Jesus on it, statues of Mary, etc. christians ARE worshiping what those statues represent.

Ive never heard of any group that worships the literal statue though, not even those folks who believe in the ancient greek gods, Zeus, etc they realize the statues are just representative of the actual gods, who are not within the statues.

Personally I dont have any religious statues, my crucifix is one without Jesus on it, although Im not sure why this law says not to have ANY graven images of thing beneath the water…not sure why anyone would have such a thing in the first place in this context?

(first, two side points… Your cross without Jesus on it is not properly called a crucifix. It is simply a cross. I wear one like that daily, a confirmation gift from my sponsor. Second, there have been civilizations in history, who have believed that the physical “thing” that they worshiped was the actual deity in earthly form, the Polynesians for example specifically worshiped specific sacred rocks as the actual deity, the God of the volcano or the God of the wind and took them along on extended voyages as protection against the hazards of the sea. There are many other examples but that’s just a side note.

To your basic premise though, it is very important to distinguish that as Catholics we DO NOT worship what any stature represents EXCEPT for that of Jesus. We DO NOT worship Mary, we simply show her the great respect to which she is due but when we slide into the realm of worshiping her, (or any of the saints and angels) we have moved onto that slippery slope of what many non Catholics accuse us of. We don’t worship the statue, we don’t worship it’s representation. We do not worship saints, angels, Mary or any other being, thing, animal or object. Yes, we pray to Mary and to the saints and angels, but not for their intervention in our lives, but as powerful intermediaries for our prayers, lifted up to the Lord in their many voices. We worship ONLY God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, ONE “God from God, Light from Light, true God from True God…”

CCC
“2110 The first commandment forbids honoring gods other than the one Lord who has revealed himself to his people. It proscribes superstition and irreligion. Superstition in some sense represents a perverse excess of religion; irreligion is the vice contrary by defect to the virtue of religion.”

This is one area we as Catholics need to be constantly vigilant against in our discussions with those of other faiths. Contrary to the misconceptions of many, Catholics believe in and worship only one God.

 

[Church_Militant]

I have an article on my blog that may help you with this.
Iconoclasm: Or: Catholics Worship Graven Images NOT

 

[exnihilo]

Todd977 explains it well. I’d add that you can see the error of iconoclasm, the destruction of religious icons, most clearly in Islam. Islam, or at least some portion, takes the prohibition of images so far, and one might say more literally, that they don’t allow images of anything natural. This prohibition is strictly applied to religious spaces and to varying degrees elsewhere. This is why if you look at Muslim art and architecture they just use geometric shapes.

A good passage in Holy Scripture to consider is The Bronze Serpent. God sent venomous snakes into the complaining Israelites. Then God commanded Moses to make a bronze serpent. Any who were bitten and looked upon the serpent would be healed. Here we have God actually commanding someone to make a physical object, representing a creature, which will affect healing.

Now we don’t want to push this too far as this was a unique case of God commanding something. But I do think it helps to give more context to what God prohibits.

 

[steve_b]

First let me say, I don’t post this to be antagonistic whatsoever. I’m genuinely interested in the answers. I realize that the Catholic Church doesn’t teach that it is ok to worship anyone other that God, and the latria/dulia distinction.

The commandment says: You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments

So how do Catholics understand the words bowing down? Is it ok to bow down (kneel) before a statue as long as you aren’t worshipping it as God? And how do you understand the prohibition of images?

Thank you in advance!

Here’s a sample of the passages you refer to.

Leviticus 26:1
“You shall make for yourselves no idols and erect no graven image or pillar, and you shall not set up a figured stone in your land, to bow down to them; for I am the Lord your God.

Numbers 33:52
then you shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their figured stones, and destroy all their molten images, and demolish all their high places;

Deuteronomy 4:16
beware lest you act corruptly by making a graven image for yourselves, in the form of any figure, the likeness of male or female,

Deuteronomy 4:23
Take heed to yourselves, lest you forget the covenant of the Lord your God, which he made with you, and make a graven image in the form of anything which the Lord your God has forbidden you.

Deuteronomy 4:25
“When you beget children and children’s children, and have grown old in the land, if you act corruptly by making a graven image in the form of anything, and by doing what is evil in the sight of the Lord your God, so as to provoke him to anger,

Deuteronomy 5:8
“‘You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;

Deuteronomy 7:5
But thus shall you deal with them: you shall break down their altars, and dash in pieces their pillars, and hew down their Ashe′rim, and burn their graven images with fire.

Deuteronomy 7:25
The graven images of their gods you shall burn with fire; you shall not covet the silver or the gold that is on them, or take it for yourselves, lest you be ensnared by it; for it is an abomination to the Lord your God.

Etc Etc.

The common denominator here is,

• a graven image = an idol, a “thing” to pray to or offer worship / sacrifice to, as if it is a god or lord. A huge offense to God

As you acknowledge above, Catholics don’t worship statues. Statues are reminders of saints (our family) already in heaven. While they are more alive in heaven than we are in this earthly life, we ask saints for their prayers just as we ask each other here to pray for our intentions and needs.

also:

How do crucifixes fit in with the Old Testament prohibition of graven images?

 

[Duane1966]

The commandment says: ** You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.** 5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments
!

Am I the only one that was taught that heavens in this passage is talking about the sun, moon, and stars etc.? In fact, I always thought that whenever the h in heaven is capitalized, it is referring to Heaven (where God lives), and whenever it is lowercase, it refers to space.

You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above

I may be wrong, but I read it as you shall not make an image of the sun, stars, etc. (the heavens above). So you would not have a sun God (Helios).

or on the earth beneath

Trees (Druidic), birds (Aztec), etc.

and so forth.

 

[spiderweb]

A good passage in Holy Scripture to consider is The Bronze Serpent. God sent venomous snakes into the complaining Israelites. Then God commanded Moses to make a bronze serpent. Any who were bitten and looked upon the serpent would be healed. Here we have God actually commanding someone to make a physical object, representing a creature, which will affect healing.

An interesting part of this story that I recently learned is that the bronze serpent was later destroyed because they starting burning incense to it (2 Kings 18:4). What God commanded was good, but what later happened was not.

Something to consider for the OP. Would kneeling in prayer without any image before you be wrong? Would kneeling while reading the Bible be wrong? If you did this would you be offended it someone accused you of worshipping a book? As many have already stated, the images help focus on a particular thought of prayer.

Consider an image or statue of Mary. Look at different events through her eyes. The birth of Jesus, the death of Jesus, what she saw and felt when he ascended to Heaven, etc. She is only important to us because of Jesus. Everything about her points to Jesus. The images just helps to keep focus and make it more real. With other saints, different aspects of their lives point to Jesus. How they lived, how they allowed themselves to BE his hands and feet actively working through their lives. They also are only important because of Jesus working through them.

 

[Della]

A thought occurs to me that we need such images in our modern times much more than they have ever been needed. We are surrounded by secular images, indeed, we are bombarded by them day and night. We see much more than our grandparents saw or our great grandparents. We live in a world filled with sights and sounds entering our homes, businesses, gathering places, etc. 24 hours a day. How beneficial it is to have sacred images reminding us that this world is not our home. That heaven and union with God is life’s true goal. I only wish our churches, homes, a public places were as filled with such images as they once were.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

I can recall being told to genuflect in a protestant liturgical church.

When i questioned bowing down to that graven image(cross) the pastor told me we aren’t worshiping it, this is just a target for our worship. So that’s a protestant perspective.

In the Catholic church we genuflect in worship of Jesus in the Eucharist.

And there is clearly a difference between adoration and veneration that i did not understand, initially.

Even in RCIA when we met the Bishop, I saw people bowing to him and thought this is ridiculous why are they bowing to a man? Then it hit me, I was looking at 2,000 years of history in this man because of the office he holds. I don’t care for President Obama but hold great respect for the office. And if I were overseas and the custom was to bow to their president I would probably do it out of respect for the office. But if I were told to worship him, they’d have to go ahead and kill me because that wont happen.