How do Catholics view Orthodox Christianity?

  • Thread starter Thread starter lampalm
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
L

lampalm

Guest
I have been reading some threads and it sounds like Catholics believe that Orthodox Christians did not exist in the early church?

Wasn’t the Catholic Church the Catholic/Orthodox Church then they split?
 
I have been reading some threads and it sounds like Catholics believe that Orthodox Christians did not exist in the early church?

Wasn’t the Catholic Church the Catholic/Orthodox Church then they split?
During the first millennium there was only one Church, it was the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ. Subsequently there was a schism and most of Eastern Christianity, with few notable exceptions, became The Orthodox Churches. Communion is available to the Orthodox Christians as they have maintained valid Apostolic Secession, for example St. Andrew the brother of St. Peter is the founding patriarch of Byzantium, therefore they have valid Sacraments. We are currently in talks with the Our Orthodox Brethren and we all hope and pray for the reunion of East and West in the situation as it existed for the first 1000 years.
 
Well almost like the first 1,000 years. Hopefully after we reunite there will be less bickering. 😃
 
Not to sound like a jerk, but doesn’t that mean Catholics will have to become Orthodox?
 
I have been reading some threads and it sounds like Catholics believe that Orthodox Christians did not exist in the early church?

Wasn’t the Catholic Church the Catholic/Orthodox Church then they split?
Ignatius of Antioch 1st and 2nd century, called the Church the Catholic Church. The Nicene Creed states in the 4th century, as an article of faith (Council of Constantinople, an ecumenical council. )

“I believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.”

The EO aren’t Catholic, nor are they the Catholic Church.
http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=2935402&postcount=25
http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=2935437&postcount=30
 
Am I allowed to ask how Catholics view that part of history?
 
Am I allowed to ask how Catholics view that part of history?
Sure. those links show that EO aren’t to call themselves Catholic, or call themselves the Catholic Church. Which I think answers your question when you observed “it sounds like Catholics believe that Orthodox Christians did not exist in the early church”

Everybody in the early Church was Catholic.
 
Everybody in the early Church was Catholic.
So from the Catholic POV what happened?
Catholics believe that the Catholic faith has always been the same, right? However, the Orthodox says that the Catholics no longer follow the Orthodox faith.

I have a hard time understanding this, and how Catholics believe that the Apostles and ECF were Catholic when they could have been Orthodox?
 
Dear Lampalm,
So from the Catholic POV what happened?
Catholics believe that the Catholic faith has always been the same, right? However, the Orthodox says that the Catholics no longer follow the Orthodox faith.

I have a hard time understanding this, and how Catholics believe that the Apostles and ECF were Catholic when they could have been Orthodox?
A different perspective exists in the Catholic Church, maintained primarily by members of Catholic Churches who are not of the Latin Catholic Tradition. Namely, the Church was both Catholic and Orthodox when we were united. As a Catholic, I believe that the Catholic Church has retained the fullness of Orthodoxy and Catholicity. The Orthodox Churches have maintained Orthodoxy, but not Catholicity (or at least not to the same extent as the Catholic Church).

Misunderstandings arose over the centuries. The schism was due to such misunderstandings from all sides, complicated by (among other things) the difference in language and the interference of secular powers into the affairs of the Church.

Conversely, the schism will only be healed through the spiritual fruit of understanding, with a good dose of the spiritual fruit of wisdom and humility, as well.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
“The Holy Spirit has revealed one truth to both the western and eastern Catholic Church only from two different angles.” JP2
 
The Eastern Catholic Orthodox are true Catholics. Just ask JP2. A lot of differences have been reconciled.

“The Holy Spirit has revealed one truth to both the western and eastern Catholic Church only from two different angles.” JP2
I’m not sure where that quotation comes from or its context, but it would appear that Blessed John Paul II was referring to the Eastern Catholic Church not the Eastern Orthodox–they are not the same. There are several Eastern Catholic Churches that are in communion with Rome. But the Orthodox Church-- Russian, Greek etc are not in communion with Rome. It appears that the Pope was speaking of the former, not the latter.

I’m not saying the Orthodox do not have the truth, but just want to make sure that we have the context of his quote.
 
So from the Catholic POV what happened?
Catholics believe that the Catholic faith has always been the same, right?
Yes
l:
However, the Orthodox says that the Catholics no longer follow the Orthodox faith.
I have a hard time understanding this, and how Catholics believe that the Apostles and ECF were Catholic when they could have been Orthodox?
How does one go about working through this?

Catholics can point to
  • Ignatius of Antioch, bishop from ~ 69 a.d. to ~107 a.d. He was a disciple of St John. He called the Church the Catholic Church (letter to Smyrna). Polycarp also identified the Church as the Catholic Church (martyrdom of Polycarp), as did Irenaeus (against heresies)…
  • fast forward to a statement of faith from the Nicene creed at the ecumenical Council of Constantinople (i.e. the entire Church professes the following in 381 a.d.) “We believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church”.
  • Therefore, as of 381, one can show that the Church of the apostles, the ECF’s, and of the creed, is the Catholic Church…true?
 
Catholics can point to
  • Ignatius of Antioch, bishop from ~ 69 a.d. to ~107 a.d. He was a disciple of St John. He called the Church the Catholic Church (letter to Smyrna). Polycarp also identified the Church as the Catholic Church (martyrdom of Polycarp), as did Irenaeus (against heresies)…
  • fast forward to a statement of faith from the Nicene creed at the ecumenical Council of Constantinople (i.e. the entire Church professes the following in 381 a.d.) “We believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church”.
  • Therefore, as of 381, one can show that the Church of the apostles, the ECF’s, and of the creed, is the Catholic Church…true?
Steve please don’t misunderstand what I am about to post.
If I understand you correctly it is that your church has the word Catholic in the title?

There are other churches that have the word Catholic or Universal, and I have heard that one of the reason that Mormons believe their church is the true church is because it has the name Church of Jesus Christ in the title.

I presume that you don’t believe that if a church has the word Catholic in the title it is now the true church?

Edit: Also consider that Orthodox (IIRC) means “correct way”. So the Orthodox Church is saying that theirs is the “Correct Church”.
 
Steve please don’t misunderstand what I am about to post.
If I understand you correctly it is that your church has the word Catholic in the title?

There are other churches that have the word Catholic or Universal, and I have heard that one of the reason that Mormons believe their church is the true church is because it has the name Church of Jesus Christ in the title.

I presume that you don’t believe that if a church has the word Catholic in the title it is now the true church?

Edit: Also consider that Orthodox (IIRC) means “correct way”. So the Orthodox Church is saying that theirs is the “Correct Church”.
You’re not addressing what I wrote.
 
Therefore, as of 381, one can show that the Church of the apostles, the ECF’s, and of the creed, is the Catholic Church…true?
Now that I reread your post. I think this is what you wanted me to address.

It would still be the same problem, right?
Orthodox say that they are the true Catholic Church.
 
Now that I reread your post. I think this is what you wanted me to address.

It would still be the same problem, right?
Orthodox say that they are the true Catholic Church.
Yes, we Orthodox do consider ourselves truly catholic. This is, in part, why we call the Roman Church just that, or the Roman Catholic Church and not plainly the Catholic Church. Likewise, we call ourselves Eastern Orthodox, not because we aren’t catholic, but because it differentiates us from the Eastern Churches that aren’t Orthodox (i.e. the Nestorians, yes, they still exist after all these years).

The ECF’s used both Orthodox and Catholic in order to describe themselves. But just because one used the word Catholic doesn’t make them Roman Catholic, at least, according to Eastern Orthodox Christians (and even some Protestants).

It would be silly to assume, as has been mentioned above, that just because we don’t call ourselves the Orthodox Catholic Church all the time (we do call ourselves that frequently, from what I’ve read) that we somehow reject catholicity. We would actually refer to ourselves as just Christians, which we are. But because of the multitude of of schisms and denominations out there, certain titles catch on in order to differentiate one from the other. It just so happens that we got slapped with Eastern Orthodox. Again, we aren’t denying that we aren’t truly catholic. The word ‘catholic’ means not universal but fullness and we believe that we have the fullness of the faith.

I hope those two links aren’t taken seriously as denying our own catholicity. Any Orthodox Christian worth his weight in salt isn’t going to deny that we are catholic without simultaneously leaving the Church to find true catholicity. Does any Christian (Prot/Cath/Orth) out their think they aren’t catholic (again, here meaning fullness)? I doubt it.
 
The word ‘catholic’ means not universal but fullness and we believe that we have the fullness of the faith.
I have heard Orthodox say that “catholic” does not mean universal, but lacking in nothing (similar idea?)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top