How do churches that claim to follow scripture justify supporting SSM?

[JonNC]

Is there an echo in here?

MJ

It’s a doctrine that should echo through all of Christendom.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

Since most people who are gay first become aware of feelings of same-sex attraction by the time they are 10 or 11, what sins did such children commit that would make God punish them by withdrawing His grace from them and making them homosexual?

Awareness of sexual attraction, and acting on it, are two completely different things.

Jon

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

Since most people who are gay first become aware of feelings of same-sex attraction by the time they are 10 or 11, what sins did such children commit that would make God punish them by withdrawing His grace from them and making them homosexual?

It may be the sins of the society as a whole that will make God punish their children. In the Church, for example, the sin of one member affects the entire Church since it is an offense to the Head which is Christ. As far as I know, homosexual inclinations can also be blamed on original sin since the inclinations are a mental disorder.

God can make good come from this disorder, which can be seen from a Catholic who remains faithful to the Church while being afflicted with homosexual desires. He offers his sufferings to God and gains merit & grace for himself and the Church.

 

[MartinJordan]

It’s a doctrine that should echo through all of Christendom.

Jon

That’s beautiful my friend. Not only that. But I believe it benefits humanity and helps the common good and the natural law to defend marriage as for one man and one woman. We as humans are asked to love another, to be light to those in darkness. This can only be if we follow our Lord and Saviour. Christians should not abandon him.

MJ

 

[icamhif]

Wonder what the argument is for some protestant denominations to justify supporting same-sex “marriage” when the scriptures clearly refute it (I.E. Episcopalian, Presbyterian).

I can’t speak for Episcopalian or mainline Presbyterians in particular, but one argument is over the meaning of the Greek word ἀρσενοκοῖται in 1 Corinthians 6:9, which is translated as “homosexuals” in many (if not most) translations.

To summarize the article: The author claims that the context shows that temple prostitution is forbidden, not homosexuality.

 

[estesbob]

I can’t speak for Episcopalian or mainline Presbyterians in particular, but one argument is over the meaning of the Greek word ἀρσενοκοῖται in 1 Corinthians 6:9, which is translated as “homosexuals” in many (if not most) translations.

To summarize the article: The author claims that the context shows that temple prostitution is forbidden, not homosexuality.

And nobody figured this out for 2,000 years?

 

[Thorolfr]

And nobody figured this out for 2,000 years?

It sometimes took centuries before some scholar pointed out the obvious. Thomas Hobbes (1588-1679), for example, was one of the first to say that Moses could not have written the majority of the Pentateuch. He pointed out that there were places where the text said that something was the case “to this day,” which indicates that it was not being written by someone describing a contemporary situation.

 

[estesbob]

It sometimes took centuries before some scholar pointed out the obvious. Thomas Hobbes (1588-1679), for example, was one of the first to say that Moses could not have written the majority of the Pentateuch. He pointed out that there were places where the text said that something was the case “to this day,” which indicates that it was not being written by someone describing a contemporary situation.

But nobody came up with new improved translations as result of that, And isn’t quite a coincidence that new improved revelation of same-sex marriage just happens to support the Mores of the current culture . The Catholic Church, by the way, teaches that Moses wrote the Penrateuch

 

[ComplineSanFran]

But nobody came up with new improved translations as result of that, And isn’t quite a coincidence that new improved revelation of same-sex marriage just happens to support the Mores of the current culture . The Catholic Church, by the way, teaches that Moses wrote the Penrateuch

We understand events, history, culture, society, and even Scripture, in new ways as time progresses. For instance, it’s true that Jews and Christians say that the Torah was written by Moses. However, we know for a fact that the books of Moses were written long after Moses died. And, they were compiled by many people throughout hundreds of years.

Leviticus, for example (my favorite of the 5 books), which was the ritual handbook for priests, was written well into the 6th or 5th century BCE. It was a detailed rendition of a developed system. It’s nice to think that Moses wrote it, but we know otherwise.

The problem is that when you get stuck thinking one way about texts, it can cause all sorts of difficulties when that one way is no longer credible.

 

[icamhif]

I can’t speak for Episcopalian or mainline Presbyterians in particular, but one argument is over the meaning of the Greek word ἀρσενοκοῖται in 1 Corinthians 6:9, which is translated as “homosexuals” in many (if not most) translations.

To summarize the article: The author claims that the context shows that temple prostitution is forbidden, not homosexuality.

And nobody figured this out for 2,000 years?

Even if I were to ignore the Early Church Fathers, I would still find the article unconvincing. Just because a principle is mentioned in a certain context does not necessarily mean that the principle is limited to the context.

 

[theropod]

I am not aware of any churches that claim to follow scripture who allow same sex marriage. Any that I have seen have rejected inerrancy of scripture. If you do not believe that scripture is inerrant, then you cannot claim to follow scripture. It’s that simple.

Compound this with the fact that they have also rejected the exclusivity of Christ, and in many cases rejected the virgin birth (thus the incarnation) and rejected the resurrection, we kind of aren’t even talking about Christians anymore.

 

[Tomdstone]

Is it true that many Churches do not follow Scripture as it is written, but somehow argue for ways to get around what has been written? for example, scripture says:

1. Call no man Father.
2. Unless a man hate his mother and father, he cannot be a disciple of Christ.
3. Only God the Father knows the day or the hour. The Son does not know. And if it is only God the Father who knows, then does that not imply that God the Holy Spirit would not know?
4. Unless you become like little children, you cannot enter heaven.
5. Women must be silent in Church and wear headcovering.
6. Many others…

 

[Starwarsfan2]

Is it true that many Churches do not follow Scripture as it is written, but somehow argue for ways to get around what has been written? for example, scripture says:

1. Call no man Father.
2. Unless a man hate his mother and father, he cannot be a disciple of Christ.
3. Only God the Father knows the day or the hour. The Son does not know. And if it is only God the Father who knows, then does that not imply that God the Holy Spirit would not know?
4. Unless you become like little children, you cannot enter heaven.
5. Women must be silent in Church and wear headcovering.
6. Many others…

Number two refers to priorities i.e. Putting God first , four refers to childlike faith, five refers to the apostle talking about the Judaic commands about women , he was not recommending silence for women in the church , except for when witnessing to Jews who commanded head overs at the time .
In conclusion you have a poor interpretation of the Scriptures .

 

[Tomdstone]

In conclusion you have a poor interpretation of the Scriptures .

Right - poor interpretation of Scripture. I guess that this would be how churches that claim to follow Scripture would justify support of SSM. They might claim that those who do not support SSM, have a poor interpretation of Scripture.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Right - poor interpretation of Scripture. I guess that this would be how churches that claim to follow Scripture would justify support of SSM. They might claim that those who do not support SSM, have a poor interpretation of Scripture.

It’s ALL about how we interpret the Scriptures. The school of Shammai vs the school of Hillel. It’s the way we’ve done this for centuries. And it’s perfectly fine.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Others have already done, I believe, a great job explaining how and the many things in the Bible which Christians do not follow today and explaining how understanding evolves over time. And about the different Biblical translations of for instance 1 Cor.

I will only add that I believe Sodom was about how all the men of the city came to gather outside Lot’s house that night and were being inhospitable to the angels, coming to rape them. Not about homosexuality or monogamous loving same sex relationships. All the men of the city gathered that night we are told. And yet it is unlikely that every man in the city was gay. Also Ezekiel 16:49 speaks of the sins of Sodom as including pride, overabundance and not helping the poor and needy.

Romans refers to what is unnatural and for homosexuals it is as unnatural to have opposite sex relationships as it was for the heterosexuals referred to in Romans to have same sex relationships.

And just because God created male and female, it does not then follow that only opposite sex relationships are allowed. It was also unnatural for the first humans to wear prescriptive eyewear or prostheses. The point being that over the course of time just like in life and the world, the understanding of God and Scripture can progress. And it doesn’t matter if it takes 2000 yrs or beyond. I just know I am not at all comfortable with humans with finite minds placing an infinite God in a box with the lid sealed shut. I prefer being open with less black and white which is why I personally can relate to the more progressive brands of Christianity. But no such debate is likely to change any of our minds regardless of our beliefs and POV.

 

[Doormouse]

Doesn’t AIDS tell you something is wrong with the practice? The same with drugs? As people we try to help them stop.

 

[exnihilo]

Right - poor interpretation of Scripture. I guess that this would be how churches that claim to follow Scripture would justify support of SSM. They might claim that those who do not support SSM, have a poor interpretation of Scripture.

I actually agree with this. Those who support SS’M’ would make this claim. And when you look at the diverse set of beliefs that man can derive from his interpretation of Scripture it may seem that Scripture, by itself, can say almost anything. That is the benefit of using Natual Law and of having the Magisterium. But even without these there are still better and worse interpretations and there are still interpretations which are just plain off the wall.

It’s ALL about how we interpret the Scriptures. The school of Shammai vs the school of Hillel. It’s the way we’ve done this for centuries. And it’s perfectly fine.

Except when Jesus says, ‘have you not read’.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Doesn’t AIDS tell you something is wrong with the practice? The same with drugs? As people we try to help them stop.

Nah it tells me no such thing. Aids is caused by a virus and has been around a long time and heterosexuals contact the virus too. The first known case to affect a human was in 1959. Scientists identified a type of chimpanzee as a source of infection in humans. Most likely when humans hunted these chimps for meat and came into contact with their blood. It no more tells me anything than when natural disasters such as tornadoes and hurricanes strike conservative Christian areas of Oklahoma or South Carolina. Or an earthquake or wildfires strike California. Or when Hurricane Sandy struck Catholic areas in the northeastern US. And so on. Or when cancer or alzheimers strikes. No one on this earth, conservative, liberal, Catholic, Protestant, etc are immune. When bad things happen it just tells me heaven is not on earth and bad things happen in everyone’s lives.

 

[Starwarsfan2]

Anyway people who support Ssm cannot say they got it from scriptures, because it teaches marriage between a man and woman, and I’m sticking to the Scriptures.