How do gays cope with the bible on homosexualuity?

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We have a church down the street from where I work call the Metropolitan Communtiy Church. They have signs up saying that gays are welcome and celebrated here. They ordain gays and openly say that homosexuality is OK.

My question, if anyone here is gay and faithfully attending a church (particularly one like the one above), is how do you cope with what the bible says about gay relations? The bible is extremely clear on the subject, it is an “abomination”.

I really think this is one of the more clear stances you’ll find in the bible. I know there is a difference between SSA and having gay relations, that’s not the subject here. I’m just looking to find out how a church can openly support and encourage gay relationship and clergy given the bible’s stance.

I could not come up with a valid arguement that would lead to this kind of logic.
 
mcrow said:
We have a church down the street from where I work call the Metropolitan Communtiy Church. They have signs up saying that gays are welcome and celebrated here. They ordain gays and openly say that homosexuality is OK.

My question, if anyone here is gay and faithfully attending a church (particularly one like the one above), is how do you cope with what the bible says about gay relations? The bible is extremely clear on the subject, it is an “abomination”.

I really think this is one of the more clear stances you’ll find in the bible. I know there is a difference between SSA and having gay relations, that’s not the subject here. I’m just looking to find out how a church can openly support and encourage gay relationship and clergy given the bible’s stance.

I could not come up with a valid arguement that would lead to this kind of logic.
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Probably i the same way most churches do not kill homosexuals anymore, despite the ‘Bible stance’ that homosexuals should be killed.

Can you quote me one Bible verse in which Jesus says anything refarding homosexual relations?
 
From my discussions with a friend who (sadly) walked down that path …
  • Jesus says nothing about same-sex behavior.
  • The Jewish prophets are silent about homosexuality.
  • Only six or seven of the Bible’s one million verses refer to same-sex behavior in any way – and none of these verses refer to homosexual orientation as it’s understood today.
  • OT passages/laws aren’t binding any more. We don’t stone people for adultery, for example
Those are some of the points I remember her making, aided by a quick online search.

One of the more disturbing things to me, was her belief (coached by other gays) that Jonathan and David had a homosexual relationship, based on the passage that Jonathan loved him as his own soul.
 
Actually, the Hebrew Bible is not all that explicit about homosexuality, particularly female homosexuality. In fact, there is no reference prohibiting the latter in the Torah, except an indirect mention concerning Jews’ being forbidden to engage in the practices of foreign nations, which included female homosexuality. Male homosexuality is referred to as an abomination, but there have been debates–particularly within Conservative and Reform Judaism, not Orthodox–regarding the meaning of “abomination” in Hebrew, which, based on context, can mean a grave sin or a cultural impropriety, which is much less severe.
 
Well I have heard things such as these arguments. It is only a sin for straight people to have “unnatural” relations with those of the same gender. The other argument I have heard is we now know more about human sexuality and with that understanding we can now judge homosexual behavior more fairly. I understand their points, the second more than the first, but both seem a little off.
 
St. Paul also speaks out against this behavior. How can you argue that away?
It’s in the new, not old testament, and it seems very clear!
 
Romans 1 : 26:27

“Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.”

Its not just male homosexuality that is talked about, its female and its in the new testament as well as shown above. It’s pretty clear that they knew what SSA was back in the day :rolleyes: I’m just surprised no one has claimed that the book Romans is not the inspired word of God yet and kicked it out of the Bible like some of the other books that Protestants didn’t like.

Also notice that Paul not only condemns the lust they feel as a sin, but also the acts they commit. Intention has nothing to do with why the acts are wrong.
 
Nate13 said:
Romans 1 : 26:27

“Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.”

Its not just male homosexuality that is talked about, its female and its in the new testament as well as shown above. It’s pretty clear that they knew what SSA was back in the day :rolleyes: I’m just surprised no one has claimed that the book Romans is not the inspired word of God yet and kicked it out of the Bible like some of the other books that Protestants didn’t like.

Also notice that Paul not only condemns the lust they feel as a sin, but also the acts they commit. Intention has nothing to do with why the acts are wrong.
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watch them kick it out now
 
belorg said:
Probably i the same way most churches do not kill homosexuals anymore, despite the ‘Bible stance’ that homosexuals should be killed.

Can you quote me one Bible verse in which Jesus says anything refarding homosexual relations?
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Since Jesus is G-d. Every verse in the Bible that prohibits that behavior comes from Christ.
 
Just because Jesus didn’t make a discussion about Homosexuality doesn’t mean He approved of it.Possibly it wasn’t so wide spread or that big of an issue in those days.Im sure Jesus didn’t discuss every topic which seem important to us today.I dont’ think Jesus discussed pornography which is prevalent today.At least not in the manner which people view pornography today.
 
Nate13 said:
Romans 1 : 26:27

“Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.”

Its not just male homosexuality that is talked about, its female and its in the new testament as well as shown above. It’s pretty clear that they knew what SSA was back in the day :rolleyes: I’m just surprised no one has claimed that the book Romans is not the inspired word of God yet and kicked it out of the Bible like some of the other books that Protestants didn’t like.

Also notice that Paul not only condemns the lust they feel as a sin, but also the acts they commit. Intention has nothing to do with why the acts are wrong.
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And further, not everyting that Jesus said or did or taught is in the Bible. The Bible was not compiled until well after Christ’s Accenssion into Heaven. What the Church lived according to, at that time, was exactly what Timothy was instructed to use…the Scriptures that DID exist (the Old Testament) and Tradition (whether written or oral tradition). And the Tradition of the Church regarding homosexual activity is the same now as it was then, and is reflected in Scripture…(see the above Scripture verse).
 
mcrow said:
We have a church down the street from where I work call the Metropolitan Communtiy Church. They have signs up saying that gays are welcome and celebrated here. They ordain gays and openly say that homosexuality is OK.

My question, if anyone here is gay and faithfully attending a church (particularly one like the one above), is how do you cope with what the bible says about gay relations? The bible is extremely clear on the subject, it is an “abomination”.

I really think this is one of the more clear stances you’ll find in the bible. I know there is a difference between SSA and having gay relations, that’s not the subject here. I’m just looking to find out how a church can openly support and encourage gay relationship and clergy given the bible’s stance.

I could not come up with a valid arguement that would lead to this kind of logic.
Click to expand...
I think they would say that there are lots of things mentioned in the Bible that were once considered big sins (e.g., charging interest, eating blood, remarriage after divorce) that people now basically ignore–as well as things people used to claim the Bible condoned (e.g., slavery) that people now believe to be sins.
 
Homosexual behavior (as opposed to homosexual orientation) is expressly condemned as sin in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. With love, and respect, those who suggest otherwise have an agenda and struggle to twist themselves into a pretzel to suggest, for example, that the sin or Sodom was lack of hospitality (although context clearly suggest otherwise). Any reasonable exegesis of scripture (in the original) will demonstrate that homosexual acts (male on male or female to female) is directly or indirectly condemned as sinful behavior.

Ultimately, however, we need to focus and remember that it is the behavior which is sinful in God’s eyes, not the orientation. While we should/must have love and compassion for those with this orientation and who engage in this behavior, the behavior itself is sinful to God so those who openly engage in this behavior are being disobedient to God’s will (according to scripture, and Catholic teaching).

Blessings,

Brian
 
Hey Nate and Steve, could you not make sarcastic attacks against Protestants? There are lots of places to debate the Deuterocanon and its place in worship or theology, but I’d just ask you to be charitable and not speak so condescendingly. I appreciate it, thanks guys!
 
mcrow said:
We have a church down the street from where I work call the Metropolitan Communtiy Church. They have signs up saying that gays are welcome and celebrated here. They ordain gays and openly say that homosexuality is OK.

My question, if anyone here is gay and faithfully attending a church (particularly one like the one above), is how do you cope with what the bible says about gay relations? The bible is extremely clear on the subject, it is an “abomination”.

I really think this is one of the more clear stances you’ll find in the bible. I know there is a difference between SSA and having gay relations, that’s not the subject here. I’m just looking to find out how a church can openly support and encourage gay relationship and clergy given the bible’s stance.

I could not come up with a valid arguement that would lead to this kind of logic.
Click to expand...
They basically ignore the Bible.

They either say the Bible has to be interpreted in the light of modern day reality or they say if God is a loving merciful God why would he object to a man loving another man when they do no harm and help other people by doing charitable acts and living a good life.
Both of these positions are rubbish.
The truth from God in the Bible does not change. There is no re-interpretation to justify sins.
As for the second such people are in essence saying they want God to obey their will because they refuse to do his will.
 
mcrow said:
We have a church down the street from where I work call the Metropolitan Communtiy Church. They have signs up saying that gays are welcome and celebrated here. They ordain gays and openly say that homosexuality is OK.

My question, if anyone here is gay and faithfully attending a church (particularly one like the one above), is how do you cope with what the bible says about gay relations? The bible is extremely clear on the subject, it is an “abomination”.

I really think this is one of the more clear stances you’ll find in the bible. I know there is a difference between SSA and having gay relations, that’s not the subject here. I’m just looking to find out how a church can openly support and encourage gay relationship and clergy given the bible’s stance.

I could not come up with a valid arguement that would lead to this kind of logic.
Click to expand...
They redefine words for homosexual in scripture as “temple prostitute”.
 
They cope by ignoring what the bible says.The same way anyone copes with a sin he(she)takes part in.
 
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