How do heaven and hell compare?

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I have heard that heaven and hell each have different “levels.” The Blessed Mother and the greatest saints surely will have a different experience of God in heaven than will someone who just barely made it into heaven.

Likewise, I would imagine there are different “levels” of hell, in which each is punished according to the gravity of the sins commited, and the degree of the rejection of God, that person in hell has performed with his free will.

Now let’s take the lowest place in heaven, and the highest place in hell, and place them next to each other, and compare the state of the man in each.

What will the difference be between these two? my current understanding is that the one in heaven will experience the beatific vision in absolute blissful eternity, while the one in hell will experience eternal separation from God in absolute terror and despair. That the man in heaven is happy seems to follow from the definition of being in heaven, despite the fact that he is at the lowest level of heaven, having just barely made it in. Likewise, it follows from the definition of being in hell that the man there is supremely sad and suffering, despite being at the highest level of hell.

Now if we looked at these two men in their earthly lives, how different would they be? Surely there must be a dramatic difference between them, given that one will experience heaven and the other hell, unless it is the case that the lowest level in heaven and the highest level in hell are not really that different from each other, but this really contradicts the whole purpose of calling heaven, heaven, and hell, hell, so that seems unlikely.

So these two people stand on either side of God’s balance, separated by the smallest degree possible. perhaps one of them commited the most grave venial sin possible, whereas the other commited the least grave mortal sin.

I’m trying to think of an example to illustrate this, but I don’t think I could come up with an adequate one because we don’t know precisely what gravely sinful action coupled with a specific intention and full knowledge, will actually land someone in hell, because God takes everything into account when making his judgement, and we do not know exactly how he judges, because the Church has given us no examples of people who actually go to hell. While we are given saints which gives us one side of the equation, the fact that the church declares no one in hell, gives us no light onto what sort of person might go there. We only have the moral law as a useful guide, but so much relies on faith and trust in God. we are unable to give a complete account of a person who for sure goes to hell, because we cannot comprehend the fullness of God’s mercy, and we cannot make a judgement in anyway whatsoever, not even with a hypothetical person, I will argue, because we don’t’ know the odds!!

Let us just take stealing as an example though, because I have heard that stealing can be both a venial and a mortal sin, depending on circumstances. Let’s say the primary circumstance driving the gravity of the sin is the amount stolen. To me it seems, God must draw the line somewhere, all things being equal at a specific dollar amount. In which case we may have our example above, in which one man goes to eternal bliss, and the man who takes one more dollar to eternal destruction.

To me this situation is absurd, and this maybe a bad example, but the general argument I’m making is simply the observation that it seems very strange that God should draw a strict line in the sand between pure bliss in heaven, and pure suffering in hell, and not show us precisely where this line is. Furthermore, that two people could be on either side but, very close to the line but nonetheless experience infinitly differing results (heaven vs hell) ($999 vs $1000 stolen), is madness to me, and an argument against the existence of a true hell.

Look at some of my other posts, and you can see that I’m really struggling with this topic.

how could a just God draw a line between heaven and hell the way he does? it’s too black and white!
 
First of all, I’ve never heard of heaven and hell having levels except in fiction, I was wondering where you’re getting your information?

Also, and correct me if I’m wrong, the RCC teaching is that we don’t know if there are people in hell. I read this great article called “The Population of Hell” by Cardinal Dulles, unfortunately I can’t find the link right now, and he covers a lot of what you’re bringing up.
 
Let us just take stealing as an example though, because I have heard that stealing can be both a venial and a mortal sin, depending on circumstances. Let’s say the primary circumstance driving the gravity of the sin is the amount stolen. To me it seems, God must draw the line somewhere, all things being equal at a specific dollar amount. In which case we may have our example above, in which one man goes to eternal bliss, and the man who takes one more dollar to eternal destruction.

To me this situation is absurd, and this maybe a bad example, but the general argument I’m making is simply the observation that it seems very strange that God should draw a strict line in the sand between pure bliss in heaven, and pure suffering in hell, and not show us precisely where this line is. Furthermore, that two people could be on either side but, very close to the line but nonetheless experience infinitly differing results (heaven vs hell) ($999 vs $1000 stolen), is madness to me, and an argument against the existence of a true hell.
you cant go with dollar amounts, to do so is absurd even you admit that with the $999 or $1000 example. so one must think of the circumstanses of the theft: did you steal because you wanted the thrill or an extra couple of dollars(mortal), or did you steal because you needed to feed your young child (venial)?

we dont know what heaven or hell are like because we have not been there; i tend to think of hell, not in levels as Dante Alighieri does, but as complete and total separation from God, with the knowledge that you will be alone and longing for that which you denied yourself for all eternity. conversely heaven is complete and eternal bliss because one is with God and all humans, and, because you are experiencing the beatific vision, no one will ever sin.
 
About levels:

This may seem strange, but it was so comforting to me at the time, I always share it.
When I was a 21 year old college student my best friend was killed in a car accident. I was grieving so badly it was horrible.
I would have dreams that I was in the car with her and turned the wheel at the last minute, or that I was in the accident with her. I was really suffering over this loss.

After a few weeks I had a dream that I was at home alone and she stepped through a sort of invisible curtain. She said, “Stop crying! I’m in heaven, and there are these levels, but I’m already on the second level. It’s beautiful.”

The worst part of the grief resolved after that, and I believe God allowed her to communicate that to me. I assume she made it the rest of the way, since that was almost 40 years ago.

I believe dreams have a purpose sometimes.
 
About levels:

This may seem strange, but it was so comforting to me at the time, I always share it.
When I was a 21 year old college student my best friend was killed in a car accident. I was grieving so badly it was horrible.
I would have dreams that I was in the car with her and turned the wheel at the last minute, or that I was in the accident with her. I was really suffering over this loss.

After a few weeks I had a dream that I was at home alone and she stepped through a sort of invisible curtain. She said, “Stop crying! I’m in heaven, and there are these levels, but I’m already on the second level. It’s beautiful.”

The worst part of the grief resolved after that, and I believe God allowed her to communicate that to me. I assume she made it the rest of the way, since that was almost 40 years ago.

I believe dreams have a purpose sometimes.
wow what a beautiful story. Thanks for sharing that.
 
First of all, I’ve never heard of heaven and hell having levels except in fiction, I was wondering where you’re getting your information?
I did a quick search and found this on the Catholic answers webpage, which quotes Ludwig Ott; this describes the levels or “degrees” that I’m getting at.

catholic.com/thisrock/quickquestions/keyword/hell
The . . . Council of Florence (1439) declared the souls of the perfectly just clearly behold the Triune and One God as he is, but corresponding to the difference of their merits, the one more perfectly than the other. The Council of Trent defined that the justified person merits an increase of the heavenly glory by good works. (Ludwig Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, 479)
The Union Councils of Lyons and of Florence declared that the souls of the damned are punished with unequal punishments . . . This is probably intended to assert not merely a specific difference in the punishment of original sin and of personal sins, but also a difference in the degree of punishment for personal sins [cf. Matt. 11:22; Luke 20:47]. . . . St. Augustine teaches “In their wretchedness the lot of some of the damned will be more tolerable than that of others. Justice demands that the punishment be commensurate with the guilt.” (Ott, Fundamentals, 482)
 
how could a just God draw a line between heaven and hell the way he does? it’s too black and white!
I think that it is hard to think of Heaven and Hell as places people go based on an exact fine line between good deeds and bad deeds. It is easier to look at it this way:

In this life, we have opportunities to come close to God. We do this by works of love of God and of neighbor. Once we receive a cup of sanctifying grace at baptism, we are in a loving relationship with the creator and now can draw closer and closer to him. However, when one commits a sin that is very harmful (grave matter) while realizing what they are doing and not caring, they fully attach themselves to sin, therefore, they destroy the relationship they have with God. When someone dies, the opportunity to come close to God is over, and so is the opportunity to attach that person to sin. Although I cannot say what our particular judgment is like (obviously) for sure, I like to think of it like God asking us to bow down to him one time and accept his love. People who have died after a life with a close relationship with him easily bow down and express great love, therefore, have a great relationship with God in heaven. Those who have fully attatched themsleves to sin (i.e. Mortal sin) are unwilling to bow down because they have so much pride and they would prefer themselves and their sin to having to humble themselves and worship/love God- which after all is the happiness in heaven- the beatific vision is seeing God but we must be willing to love and bow down to him to enjoy this. Because they do not bow down, I picture God saying to them “well, this is apparently what you want” and then sending them to hell where they do not want to go but they would rather go there than heaven. So to summarize, I don’t think God is judging us down to the exact amount of times we sin or amount we steal, etc. I think it is more that we become what we make ourselves based on our relationship with God, and we see how our choices have affected our soul when it meets God: The more love we have for God, the happier we can become, the more hatred we have in us, the more we will fall into hell.
But this is just one way to look at it, hope it helps.
 
how could a just God draw a line between heaven and hell the way he does? it’s too black and white!
I think it is like holding a cup into a waterfall, if you could do such a thing. If the mouth of the cup faces upward, even just a little, the water will come roaring in, and wash the cup clean, and fill it. If the mouth of the cup faces downward, even just a little, the inside of the cup will remain dirty and empty and dry even while oceans pour past it.

I think that is what it is like for us when we enter timeless eternity. All the actions of our lives shape our souls so that in the end we either can accept the life-giving presence of God or we find Him intolerable and are closed to Him.

… I see TomD123 has already said what I’m trying to say.
 
how could a just God draw a line between heaven and hell the way he does? it’s too black and white!
Outside of Almighty God and Satan, there is neither “White” nor “Black,” but only innumerate shades of grey.

Never try to question God… or his workings… He’ll out-wit you every stinkin’ time.

Think of it this way: Heaven is a place you want to be; Hell is a place you DON’T want to be. How they differ is something you’ll learn soon enough… Take things from there.

Regards,
Ponyguy
 
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