How do I answer this one?

[inkaneer]

It is not false that Jews were considered Christ killers by the church and V2 rescinded that. The inquisition happened and was conducted by Dominicans.

There are many versions of history. You choose to believe what you want to believe and will defend the church even when they are wrong. That’s your prerogative.

Now when I challenge you, you attack my faith.

All you have to do then is produce the evidentiary proof that I have asked you for at least three times now. Show me the church documents that support your allegations. Why can’t you do this? Maybe you have a problem in finding any proof for your allegations. I can believe that. It is extremely hard to prove that something happened when it didn’t happen at all. So why do you persist in your false accusations. Why do you persist in violating a Commandment of God? Why do you consider my pointing out to you that you are violating a Commandment of God as an attack on your faith? All I have done is what Matthew 18:15 says to do. I have no doubt that certain people thought of Jews as “Christ Killers”. Some of them may have been and probably were Catholics. But to say that the Church taught this as doctrine is false. By the way the group who were radical about hating the jews for killing Christ were none other than the good old KKK who not only were 100% protestant but whose heirarchy included protestant ministers. The KKK grouped Jews, Blacks and Catholics together and hated them all. So if we were to adopt your way of thinking then all protestants were responsible for the Salem witch executions and all protestants were guilty of the slave trade and the lynchings that occurred in the South and all protestants regarded Jews as Christ Killers.

 

[jericho777]

The clan was 100% made up of supposed christians. They hid behind their christian faith as a cover for their actions. I say this because what they did goes against the words of scripture. They were wrong in what they did.

 

[grannymh]

I have been slowly working my way back to the Catholic faith but as the members of my present church try and talk me out of it, I find myself in a battle to defend my decision. Lately the tactic has been “Why would you want to return to a church that persecuted people for reading the bible in their own language”?

CAF poster Church Militant has a great historical article about the Bible in native languages on his website. Send him a message and he will give you a link to it.
Tell him grannymh sent you.

Blessings,
granny

These two websites contain TV ads about Catholicism. The first is from one of the Dioceses which is using them. The second is general information.

 

[inkaneer]

The clan was 100% made up of supposed christians. They hid behind their christian faith as a cover for their actions. I say this because what they did goes against the words of scripture. They were wrong in what they did.

The KKK was made up of 100% PROTESTANT christians and the big shots in the KKK were PROTESTANT preachers. Sure they were wrong in what they did. But that is not what this is all about. What this is about is that PROTESTANTS do not blame PROTESTANTISM for the KKK, they only blame INDIVIDUALS. But, when it comes to the INQUISITION they don’t blame INDIVIDUALS instead they blame the CATHOLIC CHURCH? So why do PROTESTANTS exhibit this BIGOTRY???

Can YOU tell me?

 

[jericho777]

The KKK was made up of 100% PROTESTANT christians and the big shots in the KKK were PROTESTANT preachers. Sure they were wrong in what they did. But that is not what this is all about. What this is about is that PROTESTANTS do not blame PROTESTANTISM for the KKK, they only blame INDIVIDUALS. But, when it comes to the INQUISITION they don’t blame INDIVIDUALS instead they blame the CATHOLIC CHURCH? So why do PROTESTANTS exhibit this BIGOTRY???

Can YOU tell me?

First of all not all protestant churches were part of the KKK. There was no denominational authority given to the KKK. They were individual churches or pastors.

The catholic church had armies and the power of excommunication at its disposal to use as it saw fit. The church sent armies into battle for its causes. When the church called for an army you could not refuse because your soul was in danger of hell fire. I don’t recall a Baptist army because they did not have that kind of power or authority over individuals.

You will never condemn or call into question the actions of the church because they will send you to hell. They have no accountability to anyone because they have made themselves beyond question or reproach.

 

[zach_dunn]

The church had possesion and controlled access to them. I was just on timemagazine.com These are a couple of links but there are a lot more. This was brought about by scholars wanting to do reasearch but were denied access by the church. They have had stories on The History Channel, Learning and Discovery etc Check it out.

www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,958357,00.html
time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,152413,00.html

Your own articles refute you! You say that these articles prove that the Catholic Church is keeping the scrolls from the public? You are wrong!

In the eyes of many experts, the No. 1 foot dragger is the elusive J.T. Milik of the National Center for Scientific Research in Paris. He is a former Roman Catholic priest who has been assigned to prepare 50 or more photographic plates of the documents.

Thanks for the laugh Jericho, but you should actually read the articles yourself.

 

[zach_dunn]

First of all not all protestant churches were part of the KKK. There was no denominational authority given to the KKK. They were individual churches or pastors.

The catholic church had armies and the power of excommunication at its disposal to use as it saw fit. The church sent armies into battle for its causes. When the church called for an army you could not refuse because your soul was in danger of hell fire. I don’t recall a Baptist army because they did not have that kind of power or authority over individuals.

You will never condemn or call into question the actions of the church because they will send you to hell. They have no accountability to anyone because they have made themselves beyond question or reproach.

Pray tell, how does the Catholic Church “send you to hell?”

 

[inkaneer]

First of all not all protestant churches were part of the KKK. There was no denominational authority given to the KKK. They were individual churches or pastors.

The catholic church had armies and the power of excommunication at its disposal to use as it saw fit. The church sent armies into battle for its causes. When the church called for an army you could not refuse because your soul was in danger of hell fire. I don’t recall a Baptist army because they did not have that kind of power or authority over individuals.

Now you have gone from false allegations to outright lies. Again I challenge you to support your false and malicious lies with evidentiary proof. Show me where if one refuse to join an army that one’s soul was doomed to hellfire.

As for a Baptist army try the KKK night riders. In the South one was Baptist by day and KKK by night.

You will never condemn or call into question the actions of the church because they will send you to hell. They have no accountability to anyone because they have made themselves beyond question or reproach.

Jesus said He would remain with the church He established until the end of the age. Jesus said His church would prevail over the forces of hell. For you to allege that the Catholic Church, the church established by Jesus did what you allege then you are calling both Jesus and Scripture liars. That is not good, not good at all. Hopefully the vehement hatred which you have displayed here will be gone and you will have repented of your lack of love for your brother. I hope so. We pray for you.

 

[jericho777]

Pray tell, how does the Catholic Church “send you to hell?”

The catholic church believes it has the power to send people to hell or heaven. You claim the power to hold mens sins against them. You know binding and loosing.

 

[jericho777]

Now you have gone from false allegations to outright lies. Again I challenge you to support your false and malicious lies with evidentiary proof. Show me where if one refuse to join an army that one’s soul was doomed to hellfire.

As for a Baptist army try the KKK night riders. In the South one was Baptist by day and KKK by night.

Jesus said He would remain with the church He established until the end of the age. Jesus said His church would prevail over the forces of hell. For you to allege that the Catholic Church, the church established by Jesus did what you allege then you are calling both Jesus and Scripture liars. That is not good, not good at all. Hopefully the vehement hatred which you have displayed here will be gone and you will have repented of your lack of love for your brother. I hope so. We pray for you.

The point is Baptists did not convene a general assembly to form or condone the KKK. Baptists are not an organization like the CC.

So you’re telling me the church has not ever done anything wrong or made any mistakes? I do not hate the church I disagree with its man made rules and man made doctrines. That’s why we can discuss them here so we both can educate ourselves.

 

[fbl9]

The catholic church believes it has the power to send people to hell or heaven. You claim the power to hold mens sins against them. You know binding and loosing.

Put it this way i stagger into the confessional drunk as a skunk bottle in hand call the priest a pious ------ all the while claiming to desire absolution…no my sinfullness would not be forgiven…now my soul is in great danger of hell fire but the church cannot send me there for the Church has and always will teach that the final say is God’s.

 

[dcana]

The catholic church believes it has the power to send people to hell or heaven. You claim the power to hold mens sins against them. You know binding and loosing.

“Whose sins you forgive they are forgiven, for those whose sins you retain they will be retained, whatever you bind on earth will be bound on Heaven.”

Good, now that’s finally settled!

 

[zach_dunn]

The catholic church believes it has the power to send people to hell or heaven. You claim the power to hold mens sins against them. You know binding and loosing.

Jn 20:23 tells us that the power to forgive sins was given by Jesus to the Apostles; Scripture and History tell us that this power was given to their [the Apostles’] successors and to ordained priests. Now, the situation posed by fbl9 is a great example. Would Christ have forgiven this person their sins? It’s obvious they do not care, they are not repentant; the point is that God Himself would not forgive this person, how could someone with God’s authority to forgive sins forgive that person? It is not the Church that condemns them to hell, they are condemned by their own hardness of heart and their lack or repentance.

The Church has never and will never say she has the “power to send people to hell or heaven.” Why? Because she can’t.

 

[dcana]

Jesus was obviously giving others His power to forgive and retain sins. So, jericho777, I ask you, who was He giving it to and why do you think He was doing so? It seems to me He was giving this power to his audience, namely those He was sitting with, His apostles, and He was doing it because He was going to ascend to the Father, and neither they nor anyone else alive would ever see Him again with their eyes. Such a shame! Or was it? Come on, we’re talking about God, and He did not leave us orphans to starve. He would indeed fulfill all His promises to them and to all of us and fulfill them most magnificantly and fully. Here’s one out of many: “I will be with you always.” Well, where is He? I don’t see Him, do you? I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’ve never seen Him. Jesus would no longer walk the face of the earth as He had the 3 previous years, telling people face-to-face, “I forgive you of your sins.” Seems to me He wanted somebody to take His place, and for the WHOLE WORLD, every man, woman, and child over the face of the earth from that moment until He comes again, to be able to receive His forgiveness in this most personal and human way, to hear it said your sins are forgiven you and to know, thereby, that their sins were indeed forgiven them. He had the power to do this, and He did it. This was His plan from all eternity. If you don’t like it, take it up with Him and at least be honest with yourself in that you DO NOT BELIEVE Jesus’ words in the Holy Bible in the Gospel according to John. When you read that Gospel, you should skip over these verses. Those who do not believe these words are, in reality, doing so already in their own minds, since they refuse to truly think about what they plainly mean, and so they stifle that momentary, uncomfortable feeling that one gets when one is confronted by a plain truth that is contradictory to what one believes and holds most dear, in this case, one’s Faith. Maybe it would be better said that they don’t refuse to think about what they plainly mean, because their meaning is unambiguous, but rather what the consequences of their meaning might mean for themselves and their own walk with Christ. And the consequences are earth-shattering. I feel for such people and cannot imagine what profound humility and confidence in Christ it takes for someone to finally say, “Ok, Jesus, I believe you. Now you expect me to go and confess my own (mortal) sins to another human being? That seems crazy but, nevertheless, I will do not as I will but as thou wilt.” I can only thank God He made me Catholic from my birth and made me understand these things always. Without some extraordinary outpouring of His grace, I know I could never have been a convert from Protestantism. I have neither the humility nor the courage and would hold on to all the A-C propaganda that has been spread over the last 493 years with every fiber of my being. But it is all grace after all, so who knows. Pray to the Holy Spirit for grace and humility. Without humility, I know from experience, you will go NOWHERE in the spiritual life. Compare Judas and Peter. One went to his own place, the other went to His place. But they both sinned and were deprived of the glory of God.

 

[jericho777]

Jn 20:23 tells us that the power to forgive sins was given by Jesus to the Apostles; Scripture and History tell us that this power was given to their [the Apostles’] successors and to ordained priests. Now, the situation posed by fbl9 is a great example. Would Christ have forgiven this person their sins? It’s obvious they do not care, they are not repentant; the point is that God Himself would not forgive this person, how could someone with God’s authority to forgive sins forgive that person? It is not the Church that condemns them to hell, they are condemned by their own hardness of heart and their lack or repentance.

The Church has never and will never say she has the “power to send people to hell or heaven.” Why? Because she can’t.

On the cross Jesus said Father forgive them for they know what they do.

 

[inkaneer]

The point is Baptists did not convene a general assembly to form or condone the KKK. Baptists are not an organization like the CC.

I fail to see how that makes a difference in what they did. But they did condone the KKK if not all at once then in separate actions. In a way that makes it even worse because Baptists can’t lay the blame at the feet of one man but distribute it over the entire denomination. Suffice to say the Klan was thoroughly Baptist organization by membership and by leadership.

So you’re telling me the church has not ever done anything wrong or made any mistakes? I do not hate the church I disagree with its man made rules and man made doctrines. That’s why we can discuss them here so we both can educate ourselves

What is it with you protestants? Do you not know the difference between impeccability and infallibility? The promise that Christ made to his church was that it would never teach error. He did not say that its members would not sin nor did He say that church people will never do anything wrong. After all the very first pope selected by Christ Himself denied Jesus three times. By the way the church is sinless. People commit sins. Sins are personable Churches, countries, denominations, groups, etc. cannot commit sin. The people in them can and do.

Now about those alleged man made rules. Who said they were man made? Can you imagine some Jew saying that to Moses? Can you imagine some first century christian telling that to an Apostle? Read the books of Acts and ask yourself this question, Did the early church have authority? Did they have authority to replace Judas? Did they have authority to create deacons, Did they have authority to ordain Priests [presbuteros] or Bishops [Episcopoi]? Did they, in Acts 15, have authority to dictate to the Church in Antioch what they should do without referring to scripture but claiming a direct revelation from the Holy Spirit? The answer is a unqualified yes. The church had authority. Now was that authority passed down when the Apostles died? Again the scriptures say yes. Matthias replaced Judas. Now does your church have authority? Does your church claim to have authority? The Catholic Church has authority. We have it because our bishops stand in a direct line of succession going back to one of the Apostles. Go to any Catholic diocese in the world [Orthodox and Coptic also] and ask to see their line of succession and they will show it to you. Can your denomination do that? Is that important? The early church thought so. Note the words of Irenaeus in the second century:

“It is possible, then, for everyone in every church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the apostles which has been made known to us throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the apostles and their successors down to our own times, men who neither knew nor taught anything like what these heretics rave about” (Against Heresies 3:3:1 [A.D. 189]).

He would also write:

“*t is incumbent to obey the presbyters who are in the Church—those who, as I have shown, possess the succession from the apostles; those who, together with the succession of the episcopate, have received the infallible charism of truth, according to the good pleasure of the Father. But [it is also incumbent] to hold in suspicion others who depart from the primitive succession, and assemble themselves together in any place whatsoever, either as heretics of perverse minds, or as schismatics puffed up and self-pleasing, or again as hypocrites, acting thus for the sake of lucre and vainglory. For all these have fallen from the truth” (ibid., 4:26:2).

For Irenaeus, a second century christian, your denomination would be considered to be heretical because you have departed from the line of succession.*

 

[inkaneer]

The catholic church believes it has the power to send people to hell or heaven. You claim the power to hold mens sins against them. You know binding and loosing.

Then tell us how you interpret Jesus words to his Apostles in John 20:21-23

“21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.” [John 20:21-23]

Notice Jesus says, “Whose soever sins…” That means anyone not just someone who sins against you personally. So, yeah, Jesus gave this power to remit or retain people’s sins to the Apostles. That is the authority to bind others to their sins or to loose them from them. Now who in your denomination can do that??? NO ONE!!! Now explain to me why Jesus gives this power to his church but your denomination does not claim to have it? If this is the way Jesus wants people’s sins to be forgiven then you are in big trouble for your sins are not remitted and thus are automatically retained.

 

[jericho777]

Then tell us how you interpret Jesus words to his Apostles in John 20:21-23

“21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.” [John 20:21-23]

Notice Jesus says, “Whose soever sins…” That means anyone not just someone who sins against you personally. So, yeah, Jesus gave this power to remit or retain people’s sins to the Apostles. That is the authority to bind others to their sins or to loose them from them. Now who in your denomination can do that??? NO ONE!!! Now explain to me why Jesus gives this power to his church but your denomination does not claim to have it? If this is the way Jesus wants people’s sins to be forgiven then you are in big trouble for your sins are not remitted and thus are automatically retained.

If a person truly repents to God it does not matter what any organization says or does. If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleans us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

You are to stuck on an organization you need a personal relationship with God. He will never leave or forsake you. Dt 31:6

 

[chessmane4e5]

If a person truly repents to God it does not matter what any organization says or does. If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleans us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

You are to stuck on an organization you need a personal relationship with God. He will never leave or forsake you. Dt 31:6

Maybe.

But let’s just say that Jesus really did build His Church upon Peter, and the Catholic Church is that Church still today.

To reject what Christ built, and take just the Bible, which the Church is responsible for, and put eternal soul on some verses from that Bible, is pretty risky.

Anyone who repents and ask Gods forgiveness, I see no reason why God would not forgive them. But then again, I am not God, and ultimately I have no clue what God is going to do. In all my life, I have never even presumed that I will go to Heaven. “But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” Matt 7:14

I feel so blessed that I am part of the Church that Christ did found, which gives me the Sacraments to strengthen me on my journey through life. The Church helps me to have a personal relationship with God and with Jesus, especially in the Eucharist.

 

[inkaneer]

If a person truly repents to God it does not matter what any organization says or does. If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleans us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

You are to stuck on an organization you need a personal relationship with God. He will never leave or forsake you. Dt 31:6

But 1John 1:9 doesn’t tell you to whom you are to confess your sins nor does it tell you how God will forgive you. The fact that this power was given by Jesus to His Apostles in John 20:23 should tell you who you are to confess to and how your sins are forgiven. Unlike you, the people who would read 1 John 1:9 would do so knowing John 20:23 and belong to a church with Apostolic Succession thereby possessing the authority to forgive sin. But when you don’t have that then John 20:23 gets pushed aside and your sin remains.