How do I choose a Church?

[emeraldisle]

This says absolutely nothing about whether the method of confessing sins to God should be direct or indirect. It doesn’t say, “I will confess my transgressions directly to the Lord.”

The reason why the following verse doesn’t say "“I will confess my transgressions through ??? to the LORD,” is because it’s so obvious that it means what it says.

I acknowledged my sin to You, and my iniquity I have not hidden. I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” and You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Psalm 32:5

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[jmcrae]

The reason why the following verse doesn’t say "“I will confess my transgressions through ??? to the LORD,” is because it’s so obvious that it means what it says.

I acknowledged my sin to You, and my iniquity I have not hidden. I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” and You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Psalm 32:5

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Part of the context of the verse is knowing who said it (David), and how that person confessed his sins to the Lord (through Nathan). The Bible is not some kind of magic writing that means something different than what the author actually intended, or actually experienced.

 

[emeraldisle]

Part of the context of the verse is knowing who said it (David), and how that person confessed his sins to the Lord (through Nathan). The Bible is not some kind of magic writing that means something different than what the author actually intended, or actually experienced.

Of course this verse is set in Psalm 32 and this Psalm is addressing Davids relationship with God and not Nathan.

I acknowledged my sin to You, and my iniquity I have not hidden. I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” and You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah For this cause everyone who is godly shall pray to You in a time when You may be found; Psalm 32:5-6

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[jmcrae]

Of course this verse is set in Psalm 32 and this Psalm is addressing Davids relationship with God and not Nathan.

I acknowledged my sin to You, and my iniquity I have not hidden. I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” and You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah For this cause everyone who is godly shall pray to You in a time when You may be found; Psalm 32:5-6

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My point is that David did this with Nathan’s help; not all by himself.

 

[emeraldisle]

My point is that David did this with Nathan’s help; not all by himself.

Your point is irrelevant because God has revealed the Truth that David confessed his sins to God.

I acknowledged my sin to You, and my iniquity I have not hidden. I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” and You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah For this cause everyone who is godly shall pray to You in a time when You may be found; Psalm 32:5-6

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[Kay_Cee]

The reason why the following verse doesn’t say "“I will confess my transgressions through ??? to the LORD,” is because it’s so obvious that it means what it says.

I acknowledged my sin to You, and my iniquity I have not hidden. I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” and You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Psalm 32:5

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It’s not obvious to me. What I see here is that we are to:

1. acknowledge our sin,
2. not hide our iniquities, and
3. confess our transgressions to the Lord

But it doesn’t say the method we should use is to confess them directly. Please point out the exact words in this verse that show God intends us to confess our sins to Him directly, because I don’t see anything in this verse about that whatsoever. I don’t see how you get that out of the verse without reading a pre-conceived notion into it, since the verse says nothing about that at all.

You seem to be under the mistaken notion that when we Catholics go to confession that we’re not confessing our sins to God. Well, when I go to confession, I:

1. acknowledge by sin (admitting it out loud is quite an acknowledgement),
2. do not hide my iniquities (since I’m saying them out loud to another person instead of confessing to God alone, which, BTW, would make them a whole lot easier to hide), and
3. confess my transgresssion to the Lord (through the priest)

Looks to me like Catholic confession covers everything in that verse.

 

[jmcrae]

Your point is irrelevant because God has revealed the Truth that David confessed his sins to God.

Yes, and when we go back to II Samuel 12 to see how he did that, we see that he had Nathan’s help, not only to confess his sins, but also even to examine his conscience, and realize that he even had any sins to confess.

Again - the Bible is not some kind of magic words that change reality. The fact that David omits to mention the method of his Confession in the Psalm does not mean that God has changed reality and decided that David didn’t actually need Nathan - nor that we don’t actually need priests.

 

[johnnydigit]

if it’s acceptable to you, then the Old Testament traditions are ok, but if it’s not, then they’re not ok because Jesus did away with it lol. honestly…

authority rules!

 

[emeraldisle]

It’s not obvious to me.

Please point out the exact words in this verse that show God intends us to confess our sins to Him directly, because I don’t see anything in this verse about that whatsoever. I don’t see how you get that out of the verse without reading a pre-conceived notion into it, since the verse says nothing about that at all.

Not obvious to you???

If I said the following, “I will confess my secret to my Pastor” it would be plainly obvious to everyone that I confessed my secret to the Pastor and not to the Pastor through so and so. Indeed it’s so obvious what I meant that I don’t need to say, “I will confess my secret “directly” to my Pastor”.

However if I wanted to tell people that I confessed my secret to my Pastor through another person then I would say the following, “I will confess my secret to my Pastor through so and so”.

You seem to be under the mistaken notion that when we Catholics go to confession that we’re not confessing our sins to God.

You are getting confused, I’m addressing the fact that God has revealed to us in Psalm 32 that a person can confess their sins to Him.

I acknowledged my sin to You, and my iniquity I have not hidden. I said, **“I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” **and You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Psalm 32:5

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[jmcrae]

You are getting confused, I’m addressing the fact that God has revealed to us in Psalm 32 that a person can confess their sins to Him.

I acknowledged my sin to You, and my iniquity I have not hidden. I said, **“I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” **and You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Psalm 32:5

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The Bible isn’t magic words from God that change reality.

The “I” in the Psalm is David.

You can see the details of how David confessed his sins to God in II Samuel 12. David did not go “direct to God with no intermediaries.” David went to God through Nathan.

Therefore, when David says, " I acknowledged my sin to You, and my iniquity I have not hidden. I said, **“I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” **and You forgave the iniquity of my sin," it does not mean that David didn’t need Nathan, or that Nathad didn’t do anything for him, to help him.

 

[emeraldisle]

The Bible isn’t magic words from God that change reality.

I know the Bible isn’t Gods “magic words”, it’s Gods “written” word and it’s the Truth.

The “I” in the Psalm is David.

You can see the details of how David confessed his sins to God in II Samuel 12. David did not go “direct to God with no intermediaries.” David went to God through Nathan.

Therefore, when David says, " I acknowledged my sin to You, and my iniquity I have not hidden. I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” and You forgave the iniquity of my sin," it does not mean that David didn’t need Nathan, or that Nathad didn’t do anything for him, to help him.

I acknowledged my sin to You, and my iniquity I have not hidden. I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” and You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Psalm 32:5

Are you suggesting that David only ever sinned once?

Of course he didn’t and that is why he says he will confess his transgressions to the LORD. Are you suggesting that David always went to Nathan to confess his sins to God???

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[jmcrae]

I know the Bible isn’t Gods “magic words”, it’s Gods “written” word and it’s the Truth.

Actually, it’s a record written by human beings about their relationship with God. It is inspired by God, but God didn’t dictate it word-for-word as if to a secretary, or anything like that.

I acknowledged my sin to You, and my iniquity I have not hidden. I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” and You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Psalm 32:5

Are you suggesting that David only ever sinned once?

Of course he didn’t and that is why he says he will confess his transgressions to the LORD. Are you suggesting that David always went to Nathan to confess his sins to God???

Well, if not to Nathan specifically, then to the priests at the Temple where he made his sacrifices, right?

 

[emeraldisle]

Actually, it’s a record written by human beings about their relationship with God. It is inspired by God, but God didn’t dictate it word-for-word as if to a secretary, or anything like that.

So are we agreed that the Bible is Gods written word and not “magic words”??

Well, if not to Nathan specifically, then to the priests at the Temple where he made his sacrifices, right?

So now your interpretation of Psalm 32:5 has gone from David confessing his sin to God through Nathan (a prophet and not a priest) to David confessing his sins to God through the priests at the temple even though God clearly reveals to us that David confessed his sins to Him. Seems like you are making it up as you go along. BTW what is the Catholic Churches official teaching on this verse.

I acknowledged my sin to You, and my iniquity I have not hidden. I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” and You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Psalm 32:5

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[jmcrae]

So are we agreed that the Bible is Gods written word and not “magic words”??

It is human beings’ written word that was inspired by God, much as I am sometimes inspired by a sunset to make a painting. God didn’t write it, or tell anybody what to put in it, just like the sunset doesn’t make paintings, or tell me what to paint.

It has been found by the Catholic Church to be inerrant, when they compared it to the Holy Tradition. It is the Holy Tradition that comes from God, or that is, from Jesus Christ (who is God) - He gave it to the Apostles and they gave it to the Catholic Church.

So now your interpretation of Psalm 32:5 has gone from David confessing his sin to God through Nathan (a prophet and not a priest) to David confessing his sins to God through the priests at the temple even though God clearly reveals to us that David confessed his sins to Him. Seems like you are making it up as you go along. BTW what is the Catholic Churches official teaching on this verse.

1. I am no longer interpreting this verse, which speaks of one sin, which is the one that was confessed to Nathan. I am letting you know the common way (according to the Book of Leviticus, which was one of the Bible books that David would have had access to) that David would most likely have confessed his sins, if Nathan wasn’t around.
2. David had no notion of confessing “direct to God” in the sense meant by Protestants, because such a notion did not even exist in the world before the time of Martin Luther.

It would be kind of like someone saying “I bought a house,” and someone thinking that he managed to do so without the lawyer, the real estate agent, or the seller - it’s just understood that you don’t go to the self-serve station at the supermarket to buy a house; there are other people involved in the transaction.

In the same way, it is just understood in the Bible that you don’t normally confess “direct to God” without help from a priest or from someone who knows how to help you.

 

[musicmantg11]

The Catholic Church is a bible believing church. Why do you think we read 2 readings from the Old Testament and 2 readings from the New Testament each Sunday. Then, the priest gives a homily on it. You should go with what God tells you and what makes you feel more comfortable. I’m happy with the Catholic Church. But, go with what you like. And don’t let anyone tell you different.

May the Lord guide you on your decision & God Bless! +

 

[Kay_Cee]

Not obvious to you???

If I said the following, “I will confess my secret to my Pastor” it would be plainly obvious to everyone that I confessed my secret to the Pastor and not to the Pastor through so and so. Indeed it’s so obvious what I meant that I don’t need to say, “I will confess my secret “directly” to my Pastor”.

However if I wanted to tell people that I confessed my secret to my Pastor through another person then I would say the following, “I will confess my secret to my Pastor through so and so”.

And if I went to confession, I would say, “I confessed my sins to God” even though I did that indirectly, through a priest. It would be plainly obvious I didn’t go there to confess my sins just to a man alone and not to God.

You are getting confused, I’m addressing the fact that God has revealed to us in Psalm 32 that a person can confess their sins to Him.

I acknowledged my sin to You, and my iniquity I have not hidden. I said, **“I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” **and You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Psalm 32:5

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I never said we couldn’t confess our sins to God. If you think I said that, you’re the one who’s confused.

The problem is the verse you quoted doesn’t say anything whatsoever about confessing directly to God. *You are interpreting that verse using an assumption not stated in the verse itself. *Your interpretation that the verse must mean we should confess directly to God works only if you read the verse with the pre-conceived notion that we are to confess our sins directly to God.
In other words, you are assuming what you are trying to prove, which is begging the question. You assume “confess” in the verse means “confess directly” even though the verse doesn’t say that. As I have pointed out elsewhere, “confess” can mean “confess indirectly.”

I thought for sure you would address the points I made in post #365. I showed how the verse in question is completely compatible with Catholic teaching. Why did you choose to ignore all the points I made?

 

[emeraldisle]

It is human beings’ written word that was inspired by God, much as I am sometimes inspired by a sunset to make a painting.

sometimes inspired by a sunset to make a painting = God inspiring men to write the Scriptures ???

God didn’t write it, or tell anybody what to put in it,

God inspired men to write His Scriptures but He didn’t tell these men what to write???

just like the sunset doesn’t make paintings, or tell me what to paint.

sunset inspiration = Gods inspiration ???

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[emeraldisle]

1. I am no longer interpreting this verse,

Yes thats true and it’s exactly why you have totally missed the fact that God has revealed to us in Psalm 32:5 that we confess our sins to Him.

David had no notion of confessing “direct to God” in the sense meant by Protestants

I hope you are not suggesting that David was telling a lie when he said the following;

I acknowledged my sin to You, and my iniquity I have not hidden. I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” and You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Psalm 32:5

It would be kind of like someone saying “I bought a house,” and someone thinking that he managed to do so without the lawyer, the real estate agent, or the seller - it’s just understood that you don’t go to the self-serve station at the supermarket to buy a house; there are other people involved in the transaction.

Buying a house = confessing our sins to God ???

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[jmcrae]

Yes thats true and it’s exactly why you have totally missed the fact that God has revealed to us in Psalm 32:5 that we confess our sins to Him.

Through His ministers. Just like David actually did. The written words of the Psalm he wrote don’t change the reality of what David actually did, simply because he omits to mention God’s minister.

 

[emeraldisle]

And if I went to confession, I would say, “I confessed my sins to God” even though I did that indirectly, through a priest. It would be plainly obvious I didn’t go there to confess my sins just to a man alone and not to God.

Yes it’s plainly obvious that if a person said “they went to confession and confessed their sins to God”, that people would know this person meant they confessed their sins to God through a man who calls himself a priest.

However it’s also plainly obvious that if a person said “they confessed their sins to God”, that this meant they confessed their sins directly to God.

In other words, you are assuming what you are trying to prove, which is begging the question. You assume “confess” in the verse means “confess directly” even though the verse doesn’t say that. As I have pointed out elsewhere, “confess” can mean “confess indirectly.”

There’s no need to assume when the following statement in Psalm 32:5 so obviously means what its says; “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” and just like “Sing to Him a new song;” Psalm 33:3, so obviously means sing directly to God and not sing to God through so and so.

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