How do I choose a Church?

[emeraldisle]

If a Catholic wanted to convert to Protestantism, how would they discern which Protestant Church is the one that has taken up the mantle of Apostolic Authority, after it was apparently “lost” by the Catholic Church at some unspecified time prior to Luther’s rebellion?

You can’t lose something you never had.

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[emeraldisle]

I said the text, by itself, had two possible interpretations. Why can’t you see that is what I said?

The text in context only has one interpretation and that is that David confessed his sin directly to God.

Now you are putting words in my mouth. I never discussed context–in fact, I made a point of the fact that I was not discussing context. So to say that I have proven anything using context is either a deliberate lie, or a complete and total misunderstanding on your part.

You proved by default that the verse can only be interpreted in its context.

You will never admit that the verse, by itself, has more than one possible interpretation, even though I have proved that several times.

Again all you have proved by default is that you can’t interpret the verse out of its context and when you interpret the verse in its context you know that David confessed his sins directly to God.

I agree with jmcrae. The thread needs to get back on topic. So this is the end of my discussion regarding this.

Snap! I agree too, so this is my last post in this thread on Psalm 32:5.

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[jmcrae]

You can’t lose something you never had.

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So, Christianity itself began in whatever year the correct Protestant denomination began? Meaning that, for more than 1500 years, Christianity did not exist *at all? *

 

[emeraldisle]

So, Christianity itself began in whatever year the correct Protestant denomination began? Meaning that, for more than 1500 years, Christianity did not exist *at all? *

The Church was started by the Lord Jesus and He is still building His Church.

As for the denomination called the Roman Catholic Church, well???

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[jmcrae]

The Church was started by the Lord Jesus and He is still building His Church.

As for the denomination called the Roman Catholic Church, well???

The Catholic Church was started by Jesus Christ (Matthew 16:18-19) and He placed St. Peter at its head, (John 21:15-19) and we find St. Peter’s successor in Rome, at the Vatican.

The rest of them were started by men like Martin Luther, John Calvin, Simons Mennos, etc., who lived more than 1500 years after the time of Christ.

 

[emeraldisle]

The Catholic Church was started by Jesus Christ (Matthew 16:18-19) and He placed St. Peter at its head, (John 21:15-19) and we find St. Peter’s successor in Rome, at the Vatican.

The rest of them were started by men like Martin Luther, John Calvin, Simons Mennos, etc., who lived more than 1500 years after the time of Christ.

There’s no mention of a denomination called the Roman Catholic Church in the following passages of Scripture that you referred to;

8 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” Matthew 16:18-19

15 So when they had eaten breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of Jonah,[a] do you love Me more than these?”
He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.”
He said to him, “Feed My lambs.”
16 He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of Jonah,** do you love Me?”
He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.”
He said to him, “Tend My sheep.”
17 He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of Jonah,[c] do you love Me?” Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, “Do you love Me?”
And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.”
Jesus said to him, “Feed My sheep. 18 Most assuredly, I say to you, when you were younger, you girded yourself and walked where you wished; but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will gird you and carry you where you do not wish.” 19 This He spoke, signifying by what death he would glorify God. And when He had spoken this, He said to him, “Follow Me.” John 21:15-19**

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[jmcrae]

There’s no mention of a denomination called the Roman Catholic Church in the following passages of Scripture that you referred to;

8 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” Matthew 16:18-19

15 So when they had eaten breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of Jonah,[a] do you love Me more than these?”
He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.”
He said to him, “Feed My lambs.”
16 He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of Jonah,** do you love Me?”
He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.”
He said to him, “Tend My sheep.”
17 He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of Jonah,[c] do you love Me?” Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, “Do you love Me?”
And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.”
Jesus said to him, “Feed My sheep. 18 Most assuredly, I say to you, when you were younger, you girded yourself and walked where you wished; but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will gird you and carry you where you do not wish.” 19 This He spoke, signifying by what death he would glorify God. And when He had spoken this, He said to him, “Follow Me.” John 21:15-19**

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What is mentioned is that the Church of Jesus Christ had Peter at its Head.

Which Church has Peter’s lawful successor at its Head, today?

Easy one - The Catholic Church!!

 

[emeraldisle]

What is mentioned is that the Church of Jesus Christ had Peter at its Head.

Which Church has Peter’s lawful successor at its Head, today?

Easy one - The Catholic Church!!

Have you not read the following verses of Scripture, which clearly state that the Lord Jesus is the head of His Church.

He(Christ) is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. Colossians 1:18

For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. Ephesians 5:23

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[jmcrae]

Have you not read the following verses of Scripture, which clearly state that the Lord Jesus is the head of His Church.

He(Christ) is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. Colossians 1:18

For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. Ephesians 5:23

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Yes, I know that. He shares His headship with Peter and Peter’s successors. Says so, right there in the Bible.

 

[emeraldisle]

Yes, I know that. He shares His headship with Peter and Peter’s successors. Says so, right there in the Bible.

Please show me where it says in the Bible that Christ shares His headship of His Church with Peter.

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[jmcrae]

Please show me where it says in the Bible that Christ shares His headship of His Church with Peter.

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John 21:15-19.

“Feed my sheep. Feed my lambs.” Sounds like Jesus wants Peter to be the shepherd (head), to me!

 

[emeraldisle]

John 21:15-19.

“Feed my sheep. Feed my lambs.” Sounds like Jesus wants Peter to be the shepherd (head), to me!

Feed my sheep. Feed my lambs = Christ shares His headship of His Church with Peter ???

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[jmcrae]

Feed my sheep. Feed my lambs = Christ shares His headship of His Church with Peter ???

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It seems plain enough, to me.

What do you think - did Jesus have a literal flock of sheep out there somewhere, that fisherman Peter should look after?

No. Jesus’ “sheep” is His Church. He is setting Peter up to be its Shepherd - its earthly Head

 

[emeraldisle]

It seems plain enough, to me.

What do you think - did Jesus have a literal flock of sheep out there somewhere, that fisherman Peter should look after?

No. Jesus’ “sheep” is His Church. He is setting Peter up to be its Shepherd - its earthly Head

You’re in a “can’t interpret the Scriptures correctly hole”, so please stop digging or you’ll never get out of your “hole”.

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[jmcrae]

You’re in a “can’t interpret the Scriptures correctly hole”, so please stop digging or you’ll never get out of your “hole”.

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Funny - I’m interpreting them the same way the Early Fathers did.

What is your interpretation of Christ’s commandment to St. Peter, “feed my sheep, feed my lambs”?

 

[johnnydigit]

Please show me where it says in the Bible that Christ shares His headship of His Church with Peter.

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this statement shows that you are unaware of the entire legacy of kings, kingdoms, prime ministers, keys, authority, and words Jesus uses to refer to each of these in the Old Testament.

if you are Christian please learn about our Christian history before you go on any further.

KEYS- . Jesus did not say, “oh hey, here are some keys. fill 'er up after you’re through…”
In ancient times, keys were the hallmark of authority. A walled city might have one great gate; and that gate had one great lock, worked by one great key. To be given the key to the city—an honor that exists even today, though its import is lost—meant to be given free access to and authority over the city. The city to which Peter was given the keys was the heavenly city itself. This symbolism for authority is used elsewhere in the Bible (Is. 22:22, Rev. 1:18)
In this passage from Isaiah, the key to the house of David, or authority over Judah, was given to Eliakim. Notice that it was God Himself who placed the key “on his shoulder” and that He described Eliakim as “my servant” (v. 20). In this case, God was putting his servant in charge of the earthly kingdom of Israel, God’s chosen people.

Pharaoh asks a question that nobody can answer correctly
-Jesus asks a question that nobody can answer correctly

Joseph is guided by God to give correct answer
-Peter is guided by God to give the correct answer

Pharaoh recognizes God’s guidance in Joseph’s answer
-Jesus recognizes God’s guidance in Peter’s answer

Pharaoh puts Joseph in charge of his kingdom. He gives Joseph a new name and binds himself to Joseph’s rule, except when he’s in throne.
-Jesus puts Peter in charge of His kingdom and binds heaven and earth to Peter’s charge. He gives Peter a new name, which means “Rock”.

honestly, it’s time to grow up from childish Christianity learned from wolves. save yourself the embarrassment from arguing in this thread. learn from it instead, and teach others the fullness of the faith.

 

[Primrose]

Welcome to the most exciting journey you will ever take.

Keep reading your Bible, start talking to a priest, and find out how you can come into full holy communion with the Church.

Thankyou. With regards to tradition in my protestant study bible all the concordance with reference to tradition doesn’t give the Catholic stance on tradition. Does anyone have any scripture which backs up the Catholic stand on tradition? Actually pros and cons. Abit off thread sorry:blush:

Many Thanks
Primrose

 

[Greg27]

As you can see from your own list, you have a lot of ‘choice.’ You should ask yourself though, if you can’t accept Catholicism, if you can accept the teachings of the churches you are interested in. The CC’s position on many issues is very similar to that held in other churches, including the Reformed, Pentecostal, and Orthodox Churches.

 

[johnnydigit]

As you can see from your own list, you have a lot of ‘choice.’ You should ask yourself though, if you can’t accept Catholicism, if you can accept the teachings of the churches you are interested in. The CC’s position on many issues is very similar to that held in other churches, including the Reformed, Pentecostal, and Orthodox Churches.

when i read “position on many issues”, that made me think about how many really view church as nothing but a social club, an after school special, a place you’re “supposed” to go to if you’re to fit-in, to show you are a “good” family, a place they can teach your kids good morals that you should be teaching them yourself, etc.

don’t get me wrong, these are all great things to be receiving from church, but makes for an extremely shallow faith on their own. Christ’s Church extends far beyond these things that are seen, and into the unseen. i think this is where protestants cut themselves short and feel it’s “good-enough-Christianity”.
what they fail to see is that the “unseen” is what makes the “seen” things (mentioned above) that much stronger, going far and beyond what they can comprehend.
the unseen is the Eucharist - Jesus Himself with us always, the Sacraments, along with the entire deposit of faith, the communion of all the Saints, and the authority of the one Church Jesus established on earth.

please don’t cut yourself extremely short. learn about our Christian history and what was just mentioned to receive the complete Christian religion, the fullness of the faith, the entire truth.

 

[jmcrae]

Thankyou. With regards to tradition in my protestant study bible all the concordance with reference to tradition doesn’t give the Catholic stance on tradition. Does anyone have any scripture which backs up the Catholic stand on tradition? Actually pros and cons. Abit off thread sorry:blush:

Many Thanks
Primrose

Maybe you should start a new thread for this one.