How do I choose a Church?

[zootjeff]

Did you ever find a church?

The Unitarian Universalist Church is one that will be helpful in your quest for a new church because they stress freedom of belief and cover the Bible as well as other religious texts. But they tend to be more liberal and accepting of things like gay rights and such.

If you want the Bible shoved down your throat, Unitarian Universalism is not for you:

From Wikipedia relating to the bible:

We do not, however, hold the Bible - or any other account of human experience - to be either an infallible guide or the exclusive source of truth. Much biblical material is mythical or legendary. Not that it should be discarded for that reason! Rather, it should be treasured for what it is. We believe that we should read the Bible as we read other books - with imagination and a critical eye. We also respect the sacred literature of other religions. Contemporary works of science, art, and social commentary are valued as well. We hold, in the words of an old liberal formulation, that “revelation is not sealed.” Unitarian Universalists aspire to truth as wide as the world - we look to find truth anywhere, universally.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

Most Protestant churches differ on very minor aspects of Scripture that usually involve personal discipline but do agree on major pieces of doctrine such as the Trinity and the Virgin Birth and Salvation. The whole premise of all Protestants disagreeing with each other on matters of Scripture is really way over-rated.

Ultimately your premise - ***on very minor aspects of Scripture that usually involve personal discipline but do agree on major pieces of doctrine such as the Trinity and the Virgin Birth and Salvation ***- is a curious one.

How it is determined which are the “big issues” to begin with? From there how much agreement is essential on what are agreed to be the essentials?

Given the the heated, sometimes violent splits, schisms and debates that raged between various and sundry Protestant communities over theological issues many don’t discuss much… Well it is especially ironic in the face of today’s growing trend of Evangelical/Pentecostal mega-Churches where praise, worship and social issues preclude ever getting “too wrapped up in all that”.

 

[Don_Hepler]

You forgot the Jehovahs witness in th first post.
They believe they are the true church because they knock on doors.
They also feel they are a bible church they only had to change a few verses in there bible.
Or if you don’t like the existing churches why not just start your own like everyone else dose…we have thousands of denominations
I am sure there is room for one more LOL…
just kidding ofcourse

I love it you are so right, thats how the churches became, no authority from God , for they chose themselves, self appointed Rabbi’s or ministers of today, that is the truth, my friend, you said it the way it is, thats why God of Israel doesn’t except their baptisms, thats why Jesus sought John to be baptized of him because John was ordained of God to preform the ordinance, not the self appointed ministers, teaching all manner of confused doctrines, twisting scriptures to justify their thinking, blind guides, teaching the commandment of men having a form of Godliness but denying the power (authority from GOD) there of. Your the only one, besides myself that sees the truth in these faults self appointed religions. And they think, (not knowing) that God will bring them into his kingdom, being baptize by one he has not chosen to preform this sacred ordinance, Open your eyes people. Just because someone can quote scriptures does not give him authority to preform baptism or to receive the Holy Ghost. A man must be call of God as was Aaron.

 

[Metaron]

Just start your own denomination. It seems to be the popular thing to do these days, what with the loony Sola Scriptura premise. After all, in that model one cannot arrive at definitive Truth, unless you claim that your interpretation is infallible. But wait! Then you’d be your own Pope. But that’s how Protestantism goes… Absolute Truth can only be found in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

 

[Don_Hepler]

Did you ever find a church?

The Unitarian Universalist Church is one that will be helpful in your quest for a new church because they stress freedom of belief and cover the Bible as well as other religious texts. But they tend to be more liberal and accepting of things like gay rights and such.

If you want the Bible shoved down your throat, Unitarian Universalism is not for you:

From Wikipedia relating to the bible:

We do not, however, hold the Bible - or any other account of human experience - to be either an infallible guide or the exclusive source of truth. Much biblical material is mythical or legendary. Not that it should be discarded for that reason! Rather, it should be treasured for what it is. We believe that we should read the Bible as we read other books - with imagination and a critical eye. We also respect the sacred literature of other religions. Contemporary works of science, art, and social commentary are valued as well. We hold, in the words of an old liberal formulation, that “revelation is not sealed.” Unitarian Universalists aspire to truth as wide as the world - we look to find truth anywhere, universally.

Thank you for your kindness, Excalaber on page 13 made a great statement when he said, why don’t you form your own church everybody else has. I believe that there is much that can be learned from the statement. May I show you what I mean in these words, a teaching moment. People of all religions profess faith in Jesus Christ, the healer of all sicknesses. Is he dead or is he alive? Prayer we all do and Christ is as real as he was 2000 years ago, some have faith in his healing powers and are healed, while others who profess fall into the hands of men. If Christ was here, standing before you and a doctor was beside him, who would you go to, to be healed? The one that you go to, is the one you have faith in. Yet we are plagued with sickness. But all we need is faith in him. We cannot profess we belief and our actions show another, we are unbelievers, professing to believe. I believe also that revelation is open and that we can learn from one another, but I am afraid that there is but one FAITH. MAY I ask you a question, what is your understanding of the Atonement? and how it applies to me?

 

[dover91]

Do you believe that the Holy Communion is truly Jesus, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity, the way Catholics understand it, or do you believe it is symbolic? Most Protestant believe in the symbolic meaning, Catholics don’t. We part take in the sacrifice of Christ by consuming him on our mouth.

He did say, where ever everyone is gather under his name, he is there.

After the sex scandal, the Vatican issue a document banning homosexual in the Catholic clergy. Since 2002, the new priests coming out of the seminary have are more loyal to the teachings of the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. I also heard from Tim Staples that many priests who commit sin against children, only the Pope can absolve them from their sins. No bishop can do it.

However, I doubt if you have any statistical facts to show that homosexuals out number heterosexual clergy members.

well, i guess we fall under what you would call “symbolic” then… Jesus said when you take of this bread you take of my Body, and when you take of this wine, you take of my Blood… Do this in rememberance of Me.

we take the bread as His Body, and the wine (or whatever substitue depending on fasts) as His Blood.

now, i did not say that there are more homosexual than heterosexual clergy… i just said that compared to other denominations they have a high percentage…

 

[Metaron]

well, i guess we fall under what you would call “symbolic” then… Jesus said when you take of this bread you take of my Body, and when you take of this wine, you take of my Blood… Do this in rememberance of Me.

we take the bread as His Body, and the wine (or whatever substitue depending on fasts) as His Blood.

Jesus said: “My Body is food indeed, and my Blood is drink indeed.” “He who eats me lives because of me.” (see John 6:47-63, 66) Read the Early Church fathers. When I was your age, it is when I came to knowledge that Protestantism, by way of Sola Scriptura, is insufficient to find definitive Truth. Only the One, holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church (Roman Catholic, Orthodox, some Anglicans with Aposolic Succession, Oriental Orthodox, and Mar Thoma branches) can reveal Absolute Truth.

 

[dover91]

Jesus said: “My Body is food indeed, and my Blood is drink indeed.” “He who eats me lives because of me.” (see John 6:47-63, 66) Read the Early Church fathers. When I was your age, it is when I came to knowledge that Protestantism, by way of Sola Scriptura, is insufficient to find definitive Truth. Only the One, holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church (Roman Catholic, Orthodox, some Anglicans with Aposolic Succession, Oriental Orthodox, and Mar Thoma branches) can reveal Absolute Truth.

As I stated earlier though,I am not a protestant…

But how can definitive truth come from an organization which states that all the revelation that can be recieved from The Bible has been recieved when the Bible clearly states that “I am God that makes all things new”

But I do have to disagree with you. I do not know what you where involved in before joining the Catholic church, but I daily operate in the Gifts of the Spirit and under the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and I have never been inside a catholic church… God has used me many times to give revelation and to bring forth the Word of God… To Prophesy, to Speak, to teach, to Heal, to administer, etc…

what exactly do you mean by sola scriptura? i’ve heard the term before… but can’t seem to remember it…

 

[Don_Hepler]

As I stated earlier though,I am not a protestant…

But how can definitive truth come from an organization which states that all the revelation that can be recieved from The Bible has been recieved when the Bible clearly states that “I am God that makes all things new”

But I do have to disagree with you. I do not know what you where involved in before joining the Catholic church, but I daily operate in the Gifts of the Spirit and under the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and I have never been inside a catholic church… God has used me many times to give revelation and to bring forth the Word of God… To Prophesy, to Speak, to teach, to Heal, to administer, etc…

what exactly do you mean by sola scriptura? i’ve heard the term before… but can’t seem to remember it…

What do you prophesy? And what power do you claim, and from whence did it came, and how was it received?

 

[AlegreFe]

well, you’ll have to pardon me if i’m wrong, but the catholic church is not the only church that gives communion on a regular basis…

I will pardon you because you are wrong. Many protestant “churches” might give out “communion” but it is not the real presence of Jesus Christ.

dover91:

we do not get together every morning at 5 and eat a cracker and drink some wine, but every time we sit down for a meal we thank God for it, and ask him to bless it and partake of it b/c it is from Him and in turn are remembering Him everytime as the scripture has commanded… “as often as you do this, do this in rememberance of me”
he didn’t say every time you eat some bread and drink some wine… he was at supper… He mean every time you sit down to partake of the earth and the goodness of God…

I’m sorry that you are deceived to believe what you just wrote.
Jesus did indeed mean that we are to EAT His Body and DRINK His Blood.

He commanded His apostles who are actually Bishops to “do this in commemoration of Me.” He gave orders to priests to give the perfect sacrifice and that is done in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. And we all know the perfect sacrifice, that is Jesus Christ, thee one & only Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. We say that at every Mass every day.
We have Holy Communion, the Eucharist, every single day, not just on Sundays. Jesus is TRULY present in the Eucharist therefore I really do as He commanded us and that is to eat His body and drink His blood.
I thank God for the Mass and for His Priests! Without Priests we would not have the Eucharist!

dover91:

and i do not know about all the protestant churches, (being that my church is not protestant but you would probably consider it so) but we do not ordain homosexuality on any form at all… and only very few independent baptist and presbyterian congregations have… in fact i’ve heard of more homosexuals in the catholic clergy then in any other…

emphasis mine

If your “church” is against the Catholic Church or does not agree with the teachings of the Catholic Church then your “church” is PROTESTant. It does not matter the name of your denomination it is still protestant.

 

[Metaron]

…now, i did not say that there are more homosexual than heterosexual clergy… i just said that compared to other denominations they have a high percentage…

Actually, homosexual men are banned from the Catholic priesthood. I don’t know who told you we have homo-priests. That’s the Episcopal Church, not the Catholic Church. Besides, you should look up the study by Philip Jenkins (A semi-famous non-Catholic professor) online. It was found that 10% of non-Catholic clergy (Protestant and Church of God) have been involved in sexual abuse cases, such as pedophilia and ephibophilia, contrasted to .03% of Catholic clergy. The Southern Baptist Convention is now facing many lawsuits concerning sexual abuses. The media, in their anti-Catholic frenzy, focused solely on the Catholic Church, when it should have pointed out all abuses, across non-Catholics and Catholics alike.

 

[Metaron]

But how can definitive truth come from an organization which states that all the revelation that can be recieved from The Bible has been recieved when the Bible clearly states that “I am God that makes all things new”
QUOTE]

Catholics don’t believe that all revalation can be recieved from the Bible. That’s a Protestant belief. Catholics believe in progressive revelation.

 

[Metaron]

But how can definitive truth come from an organization which states that all the revelation that can be recieved from The Bible has been recieved when the Bible clearly states that “I am God that makes all things new”

Catholics don’t believe that all revelation can be recieved from the Bible (That’s Sola Scriptura). That’s a Protestant belief. Catholics believe in progressive revelation. That is why our Pope has the Spiritual Gift of infallibility when speaking ex cathedra. That is why we have councils.
That is why the Virgin Mary appeared to the children at Fatima, to St.Juan Diego in Mexico, and Bernadette in Lourdes. The Catholic Church has the most well-documented miracles and exorcisms in the world. I have a book documenting many such cases.

There are Charismatic Catholics too, by the way.

 

[awantz]

I hate it when Protestants call it cracker and wine. See how Protestant degrade Holy Communion. Shameful.

I do not like it when you group Protestants together wrongfully like that. I am Protestant and I do not refer to the body and blood of Christ as cracker and wine.

 

[Metaron]

I do not like it when you group Protestants together wrongfully like that. I am Protestant and I do not refer to the body and blood of Christ as cracker and wine.

I’m glad all Protestants don’t disrespect our Lord in the Eucharist like that. It reminds we of what that heretic Jack Chick said in one of his anti-Catholic tracts: he called our Lord in the Holy Eucharist the “death-cookie” and said each wafer of bread had demons in it. Terrible blasphemy! And he also called our Lord the “Roman Catholic wafer-god.” I’m sorry, but, in my book, Jack Chick is a filthy apostate.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I do not like it when you group Protestants together wrongfully like that. I am Protestant and I do not refer to the body and blood of Christ as cracker and wine.

I readily agree that not all Protestants say this or believe it. I’m Catholic, awantz, so I have a point of view. Contrary to the view of some Catholics, I have a great deal of respect for the more fundamentalist protestants, which most non-denoms are. Truth be told, both they and the “hard core” Catholics share one thing of vital importance: Both actually believe, and both very seriously want to be united to Jesus Christ. Lots of Protestants and Catholics too, just sort of believe and just sort of want union with Christ.

Naturally, I think the Eucharist; the pivot point of the sought for union with Jesus, is, from time immemorial, and in an unbroken line, in the Catholic Church. But I fully respect the longings of Protestants for the very same thing.

I have said this before on here. I’m from the Bible Belt and consider myself a Southerner. I am very fond of the author Flannery O’Connor. (You would, I think, enjoy her writings if you don’t already.) It was her opinion that Southern Fundamentalists (maybe she didn’t know any northern ones) would be surprised to learn that they have more in common with Catholics than they do with classic Protestantism. I think she’s right about that.

 

[Ridgerunner]

And awantz:

I wish you the blessings of as many children as God chooses to give you.

 

[Mannyfit75]

well, i guess we fall under what you would call “symbolic” then… Jesus said when you take of this bread you take of my Body, and when you take of this wine, you take of my Blood… Do this in rememberance of Me.

We believe in Real Presence which is consistent with Scripture in John 6:51, 1 Corinthians 11:27, and the writings of the Apostolic Fathers, Ignatius, Clement, Polycarp, and Papias, and the Post Nicene-Credo-Fathers.

The worship of the Early Church show the sacrifice of the Mass as predicted by the Lord by the words of the prophet Malachi, which he said:

“From the rising of the sun to its setting my name is great among the nations, and in every place incense is offered to my name, a pure offering; for my name is great among all the nations, says the Lord of hosts.” Malachi 1:11

St. Justin Martyr made a commentary on this with his dialogue with a Jew, Typho, and quote:

“God has therefore announced in advance that all the sacrifices offered in His name, which Jesus Christ offered, that is, in the Eucharist of the Bread and of the Chalice, which are offered by us Christians in every part of the world, are pleasing to Him.”

“Dialogue with Trypho”, Ch. 117, circa 130-160 A.D.

Moreover, as I said before, concerning the sacrifices which you at that time offered, God speaks through Malachias, one of the twelve, as follows: ‘I have no pleasure in you, says the Lord; and I will not accept your sacrifices from your hands; for from the rising of the sun until its setting, my name has been glorified among the gentiles; and in every place incense is offered to my name, and a clean offering: for great is my name among the gentiles, says the Lord; but you profane it.’ It is of the sacrifices offered to Him in every place by us, the gentiles, that is, of the Bread of the Eucharist and likewise of the cup of the Eucharist, that He speaks at that time; and He says that we glorify His name, while you profane it."

-“Dialogue with Trypho”, [41: 8-10]

we take the bread as His Body, and the wine (or whatever substitue depending on fasts) as His Blood.

So you believe in the Real Presence then? Yes or no.

now, i did not say that there are more homosexual than heterosexual clergy… i just said that compared to other denominations they have a high percentage…

What do you base that information on? I would like to see some statistical numbers. Unless you can provide proof, I could not trust your opinion on this matter that homosexual clergy is higher in the Catholic Church than other Christian denominations.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I do not like it when you group Protestants together wrongfully like that. I am Protestant and I do not refer to the body and blood of Christ as cracker and wine.

I apologize if my words offended you. I do acknowledge that not all Protestants refer to the bread and wine as cracker and juice.

 

[Mannyfit75]

As I stated earlier though,I am not a protestant…

Most Non-Catholic Christians would claim they are not Protestant Christians. They are, whether they like it or not. Most Protestants professed that the Bible Alone is the sole role of faith, and that we are saved through Faith Alone. Those are the marks of a Protestant.

But how can definitive truth come from an organization which states that all the revelation that can be recieved from The Bible has been recieved when the Bible clearly states that “I am God that makes all things new”

God makes all things new through the death, and resurrection of his sin. Before Jesus entered into our world as flesh, much of the world held pagan beliefs, and only the chosen people of God, the Jews know God and had a Covenant relationship with him.

After Jesus life, death, and resurrection. He paid for our sins, and open heaven for all of mankind. That is why God made all things new.

But I do have to disagree with you. I do not know what you where involved in before joining the Catholic church, but I daily operate in the Gifts of the Spirit and under the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and I have never been inside a catholic church… God has used me many times to give revelation and to bring forth the Word of God… To Prophesy, to Speak, to teach, to Heal, to administer, etc…

This is not directed at me, but I will give my own opinions and views. It is good that God is using you. St. Francis’ song comes into mind. “Lord make me an instrument of your peace.”

In the Catholic Church, we have what is called the Mass. In the Mass, we partake in the Liturgy. The Word of God is read from the Bible both OT, NT, Psalm Readings, and finally the Gospel. We then have recite the Nicene Creed, offer prayers of the faithful (petition), bring the gifts (unleaven bread and wine) to the alter), Eucharistic Liturgy, which the priest consecrate the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Our Lord. We then say Our Father, and finally received Holy Communion. We partake in the sacrifice of the Mass.

The joy of the Mass is receiving Jesus Christ himself. The joy and grace is there. Every week, I await to received My God, and My Master.

what exactly do you mean by sola scriptura? i’ve heard the term before… but can’t seem to remember it…

Sola Scriptura or Bible Alone is the doctrine that all authority concerning faith and morals issues is found only in Scripture, or the Bible.

Catholics do not believe this. Catholics believe that Christianity is not the religion of the Book. We are a religion of the Word of God, which is incarnate and living. We are the religion of Jesus Christ, the Word made flesh.