How do I defend Catholicism against Baptists?

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Exporter,

You ask how I would defend Catholicism against Baptists.

I was very serious when I said, “Let a respected Baptist defend Catholicism.” Someone like Chuck Colson.

However, it is very important to figure out what kind of Baptist you are facing. There are literally hundreds of different kinds of Baptists, and they vary from one extreme to the other, and even within the same Baptist denomination, there is variation between the churches.

For examples, the Southern Baptists: in the city I used to live in, one Southern Baptist Church led the way in pro-abortion activities; my husband and I actually received a late-night phone call from their minister telling us we were evil for promoting life. This same church allowed a coven of practicing witches (not Wicca) to meet in their building.

In the same city, there were Southern Baptist churches that were “snake-handling,” i.e., they picked up poisonous snakes (see Mark 16).

Anyway, start by asking your Baptist friend which kind of Baptist they are and to describe their particular denomination’s doctrines and practices.

I grew up in what’s called “Conference Baptists,” which were originally called “Swedish Baptists.” This is the group that has produced people like Gary Smalley and Evelyn Christensen, both excellent teachers and writers. (Evelyn Christensen was my pastor’s wife.)

Conference Baptists tend to be a lot less “hellfire and brimstone,” and therefore, a lot more tolerant of Catholics and other Christian denominations. When I was growing up, my pastor forged a friendship with a priest at the same Catholic church I now attend. In the late 1970s, when Campus Crusade for Christ did the “I Found It” evangelism campaign, 90 Protestant churches in our city—and ONE Catholic church–the church where my pastor was friends with the priest, joined in the campaign to reach our city for Christ!

I also grew up having shared church services with churches of several other denominations in our city.

But I know that other Baptist denominations won’t even go outside their church doors, and refuse to associate with any other denominations.

So find out who and what you’re dealing with. Are they “Jack T. Chick” lovin’ Baptists? Or “Pro-Abortion, Pro-Witch” Baptists? OR snake-handlin’ Baptists? Or tolerant Baptists?

They’ll be happy to tell you all about their church, believe me!

And after you’ve listened to them, and learned all about them, and then gone home and done some more research about them, THEN maybe it would be worth defending Catholicism.

One thing you might try is insisting that you are “a Christian,” and then try to find the bare essential that the two of you can agree on. “Faith in Jesus Christ to forgive my sins and get me to heaven,” is something that you can both agree with, even though Catholics would find this extremely simplistic. But to Baptists, this is the main thing that makes you a Christian.

Someone already mentioned The Apostles Creed, but warning: even the tolerant Baptists that I grew up with never said the Apostles Creed. After all, creeds were “works of man.”
 
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Cat:
Someone already mentioned The Apostles Creed, but warning: even the tolerant Baptists that I grew up with never said the Apostles Creed. After all, creeds were “works of man.”
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I’m Baptist meeting with RCIA leader tomorrow. Once I am a member of the Catholic Church, I anticipate staying. It seems that one of the best things about the Roman Catholic Church is its breadth – there are so many different orders in the vocations (Franciscans, Benedictines, etc.). If you need something else for some reason as a Catholic layperson (for some reason including a change in your life circumstances), there is something else to explore within the Catholic faith. No need to leave.

A lot of Baptists (probably most) used to be something else – and the else could have been anything and everything.

I originally was Methodist, and also sometimes (throughout my life) attended Lutheran, Mennonite, Christian and Missionary Alliance, Southern Baptist, Assembly of God, Non-Denominational (somewhat Pentacostal), etc. I never handled snakes for religious purposes (we aren’t supposed to test God). I’m not a Church hopper, I just happened to often change churches when moving to another city or changing a chapter of my life (student, worker, single, married, etc.). Sometimes attending a church for only a few Sundays and deciding it wasn’t for me (for example: Mennonite – I think you just about have to be born into it. Otherwise, it seemed nearly impossible to make any friends).

As a Methodist, I learned the Apostles Creed & the Nicene Creed. And at most other Christian Churches they also have it (or have most of it). You are correct that there are many different Baptists. My current Baptist Church doesn’t recite the creed in Church, but I’ve never heard it refuted there either.

So I wouldn’t have argued about the Apostles Creed; rather I would have seen it as something in common with the Roman Catholic Church. And therefore not really a reason by itself to point to one Church or another.
 
mayra hart–I had a similar reaction to doing Protestant Bible studies. It had the effect of making me more curious about my own faith (Catholicism). I wanted to see what the differences were, and the more I heard from the Protestants, the more I delved into my own faith, and the stronger I became as a Catholic. I am at the point now where I no longer need the Protestants to strengthen my own faith so I no longer do Protestant Bible studies. My Catholic church has tremendous women Catholics who share our faith with each other as we grow stronger as Catholic women, wives, and mothers. I pray you grow in strength and faith as a Catholic.
 
There is a cd you can get on st. joseph communications called Sola Scriptura- the cracked foundation of the protestant world by Ken Hensley. It is excellent. I think he used to be a baptist preacher. Also Dave Armstrongs Biblical defense of Catholicism and David Currie’s Born Fundamentalist, Born again Catholic are great books for dealing with Baptists. Oh yeah and another book is Why Catholics genuflect by Al Kresta.
 
to la chiari thank you we only have three more weeks i already went to scott hann website an every nite i listen to him while playing cards. don’t worry iwas born catholic my son is baptized an will be raised catholic so i will die catholic. my faith is very strong now. 👍 thank you and god bless
 
I think its sad anyone feels the need to defend their faith to people. Why cant you simply say this is what I believe, please respect this. This isnt about topping the Baptists with your Catholic beliefs. I have friends of different religions and its never an issue. We learn about each others religions…I went to a bat mitzvah for one my friends…we never put down each others religions or feel the need to explain why ours is better. i mean…if a Baptist had a question about catholicism you could explain why you feel this is right but i would just say ‘this is what i believe, please respect that, I try to have good morals’ and hopefully they will say the same and back off.
 
i wish things will be like that, but not. some of this baptist sticks with there own. an i can tell you that this is what i experience with my friend. she is my neighbor an is sponsoring a baptist bible study. once she realized i was catholic she change. iam attending the bible study an at the beginning she question me about been catholic then she told me not to pray in the bible study. because i found myself defending myself with the sola scriptura an i have said no to invitation to go to her church she have change.not all people are open and respect other people belief:(
 
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siamesecat:
I think its sad anyone feels the need to defend their faith to people.
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Because we care about truth as an objective reality. “What one believes” is irrelevant. We care about what is.

That is the primary purpose of this apostlate, Catholic Answers. I think we have a lot of forum visitors that never visit any of the rest of the website.

We all need to be reminded, though, of the importance of charity in all that we do.
 
It seems that a lot of these attacks are not against Catholicism, but against Catholics, which are two different things. It’s easier to defend against attacks against our beliefs than it is to justify the actions of individuals or groups as portrayed in someone’s account of history.

For these types of accusations, your misinformed brothers & sisters need to be reminded that one doesn’t prejudge an entire group based on the failings of some of its members. Would they condemn Christianity because of Judas, or the failings of Peter or Paul?

Even after the true stories are accounted for, there are scores of fictions made up to persecute the Church, the motive being that if the Catholic church were what it claimed to be, then the other churches would have to be false. Group psychology being what it is, a group will tend to defend itself by insulating itself and finding strength within its own numbers. A group will tend to believe what comes from within itself, because trust binds the group together.

You will find more success with an individual who is interested in the Truth, wherever it is found.

Catholicism & Fundamentalism by Karl Keating is a good resource for the differences between or faiths.

You can read books about particular attacks on the pope, the Crusades and Inquisitions (check their resources first), but I’ve found that others will often discount these versions and accept their group’s interpretation.
 
Here’s a link that describes the “Trail of Blood” theory:
baptistpage.org/Distinctives/Trail_of_Blood.html

It’s a theory that has been well refuted by even respected Baptist scholars. See **The Baptist Heritage/Four Centuries of Baptist Witness **by Leon McBeth, professor of Church History at Southwest Baptist Theological Seminary. See also **A Sourcebook for Baptist Heritage ** by the same author. He has served as chairman of the Texas Baptist Historical Committee, as president of the Historical Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, and as president of the Southern Baptist Historical Society.
 
DizzyDave,
… afraid to go head to head with the ones who do know their faith
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My advice: think of it as a learning opportunity.

“A question from an adversary gives an occasion for learning.”
– St. Augustine (attributed)

Just get to know what they believe and understand how it contrasts with what you believe. It they have misunderstood what it is you really believe, explain it to them. If your not certain, then do some research. It is not your job to change their views. It’s your job to share the truth, to share what it is that gives you hope to the best of your ability. Pray for the guidance of the Holy Spirit so that we may all come to know the truth. You can’t make someone agree with you. You can only share your viewpoint.

Good luck.
 
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jmm08:
The scriptural backing for my method of determination is John 7:15-20. The context of John 7:15-20 is set up in John 7:13-14. I’m paraphrasing: The correct way that leads to life is narrow. Those who find it are few. There are many false prophets. And how can I determine the right way if I am lost. If I am a lost sheep, how can I find the Good Shepherd?

“A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.”
“So by their fruits you will know them.”
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Correction. It is Matthew chapter 7. Not John chapter 7.
 
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siamesecat:
I think its sad anyone feels the need to defend their faith to people. Why cant you simply say this is what I believe, please respect this. This isnt about topping the Baptists with your Catholic beliefs. . . . . if a Baptist had a question about catholicism you could explain why you feel this is right but i would just say ‘this is what i believe, please respect that, I try to have good morals’ and hopefully they will say the same and back off.
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You are SO right, Siamese. It ISN’T about topping the Baptists. But Scripture compels us to defend what we believe (I Pet 3:15). Unfortunately, many Baptists hold views of the Church that are outright mistaken, and they persist in “evangelizing” Catholics away from the true Church. The best apologetics is, indeed, simply explaining what we believe. But we sometimes need a little back-and-forth in order to clarify the question. This need not be in anger. Keep in mind, though, that truth, even when stated clearly and gently as you have proposed: “This is what I believe . . .” is occasionally so threatening to people that they become furious.

By the way, I’m crazy about good Baptists: there are top-drawer scholars among them, and people, like Mark Dever of Capitol Hill Baptist Church in Washington, D.C., are outstanding pastors and teachers. Nevertheless, Truth is not merely a matter of “what I believe.” What we believe is based on sound principles, and it is an act of charity to share our faith, especially with those who can be outright hostile to it.
 
I watched Father Corapi on EWTN at 1 PM today.

And tonight was the first RCIA class – hooray!!!

To me, a lot of times Father Corapi seems like a really good old fashioned Baptist. God bless him.

If some of my Baptist brethren would watch Father Corapi with an open mind, they would probably be shocked to hear such good gospel teaching coming from somebody who is disguised as a Roman Catholic Priest.

All you Roman Catholics – are you sure Father Corapi is Roman Catholic and not really a Baptist?

God bless Father Corapi. He tells it like it is. Amen.
 
This is a great thread. I have a close friend who professes Baptist beliefs, though he’s a stay at home Christian. He constantly attacks my faith with standard twaddle about Catholics re-writing history etc. I get upset, but always try and calmly state my position. I sent him the trial of Blood document at the beginning of this thread and this is the response I got:

**
an interesting article - I guess the baptists should do as the Catholic church has done - rewrite history with forged and re-written documents.
You may think I have been brainwashed or whatever, but If I have been indoctrinated at all, it was as a child by the Anglican Church and I object to that too !
My beliefs come from reading the Bible. I joined a Baptist Church for a few years because it felt right - because they spoke God’s word and focused on Jesus.
Looking back now, it is very clear to me that the Baptist church taught me nothing of its history, it taught me nothing about other religions (catholicism, Islam, whatever) it just focused on the Bible.
My beliefs regarding idolatry and the Virgin Mary, about Communion (the Eucharist) and baptism were not taught to me by men or by a church, and I was not brainwashed or indoctrinated as you probably think. I read the bible and what I believe comes from that.
If you read the Bible it is all very clear.

**

I think I’m starting to get to him!

What do you think I should say?
 
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dizzy_dave:
My wifes family is Baptists, most don’t go to church. They knock our church a lot, I’m afraid to go head to head with the ones who do know their faith, because even though I am a lifelong Catholic, I am just starting to take my faith seriously. I just don’t know if I can defend Catholicism well enough yet? Can anyone help?
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Don’t bother with it. I’m somewhat fond of this response: “I didn’t come over to visit so I’d have to justify my faith to you. I came over just to visit. Of course, that’s probably hard to see from up there on your high horse. Why don’t you come on down and be sociable?”

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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FightingFat:
Cooo- now he’s sent me this

bereanbeacon.org/articles_new.htm

By a converted Catholic Priest!

Help!!!
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Dear FF,

You’ve got typical Fundamentalist thinking here – but actually on a much higher level than usual. As usual, your friend has bombarded you with an avalanche of canned objections. If you take this on, you will give yourself a high level theological education. Note how the article on the Immaculate Conception avoids the Greek: kecharitomene . . . Anyway, these are all well-worn accusations.

In order for a Protestant of this stripe to begin to understand the development of theology, you might find it wise to begin with a discussion of Sola Scriptura: right from the reason that we believe Scripture to be inerrant. Karl Keating’s Catholicism and Fundamentalism is an excellent place to start. Protestants nearly always gape in disbelief when you tell them that the doctrine of Scriptural inerrancy originated in the Catholic Church.

Take these questions one at a time. They all have GOOD Catholic answers. BTW, I am appalled that your friend construes Anglican teaching as “brainwashing.” While it may no longer be true, up until 30 years ago, you could count on the Episcopal Church for pretty solid teaching on soteriology, on Apostolic Succession, and the basic doctrines of the creeds.

Do you think your friend actually READ the links he led you to?
 
We discuss religion almost daily. I don’t think he reads the links, but I always try to, unfortunately for me (or perhaps fortunately) this leaves me with a heck of a lot of reading to do!
If you take this on, you will give yourself a high level theological education.
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mercygate, I embrace this with all my heart for that exact reason. I am involved with a couple of discussions of this nature at the mo, one with a Mormon friend and this I find much easier. My Baptist friend has busy fingers and jumps from internet site to internet site. I have to read and absorb it before I can respond, but I know that he is touched by my honest faith and the way I live with God in my life. I feel a need to demonstrate that I also have an academic basis to my faith and through appologia I have indeed found my faith invigorated and my appetite for debate wetted. I often call to mind St. Edmund Campion and his ‘Brag’, especially this bit-

I would be loath to speak anything that might sound of any insolent brag or challenge, especially being now as a dead man to this world and willing to put my head under every man’s foot, and to kiss the ground they tread upon. Yet I have such courage in avouching the majesty of Jesus my King, and such affiance in his gracious favour, and such assurance in my quarrel, and my evidence so impregnable, and because I know perfectly that no one Protestant, nor all the Protestants living, nor any sect of our adversaries (howsoever they face men down in pulpits, and overrule us in their kingdom of grammarians and unlearned ears) can maintain their doctrine in disputation. I am to sue most humbly and instantly for combat with all and every of them, and the most principal that may be found: protesting that in this trial the better furnished they come, the better welcome they shall be.

I wonder if Karl and co should make him the Patron Saint of this website???
😉
 
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