How do I defend the catholic stand agaisnt masturbation?

[The_Confused_1]

I am discussing this subject with a person. This person doesn’t consider this a sin. He claims that since it doesn’t hurt anyone, it isn’t a sin. That it doesn’t take away from sex. and that it isnt even sex. I know that this is a sin, but i don’t know how to convey it in a way that this person could understand. This person claims that the view of a masturbation as a sin isn’t biblical. Im a poor apologist. Please help.

 

[davidv]

I am discussing this subject with a person. This person doesn’t consider this a sin. He claims that since it doesn’t hurt anyone, it isn’t a sin. That it doesn’t take away from sex. and that it isnt even sex. I know that this is a sin, but i don’t know how to convey it in a way that this person could understand. This person claims that the view of a masturbation as a sin isn’t biblical. Im a poor apologist. Please help.

There are quite a few threads on this forum on this topic. A search will lead you to them.

In a nutshell, masturbation is selfish (seeking ones on pleasure). Eventually selfishness will affect someone else, usually by way of omission rather than commission. I have feeling there will be any way to convince them. Use the information in the Catechism of the Catholic Church to present the truth and do not debate them.

 

[Kevin42]

I am discussing this subject with a person. This person doesn’t consider this a sin. He claims that since it doesn’t hurt anyone, it isn’t a sin. That it doesn’t take away from sex. and that it isnt even sex. I know that this is a sin, but i don’t know how to convey it in a way that this person could understand. This person claims that the view of a masturbation as a sin isn’t biblical. Im a poor apologist. Please help.

Ask him if he thinks about other people when masturbating. I know it’s a gross question, but if he says yes (which he most likely will unless he’s lying) then give him the following verse:

You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’
But I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

That’s straight from the lips of our savior (Matt 5:27-28).

Then show him the next part:

If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one of your members than to have your whole body thrown into Gehenna. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one of your members than to have your whole body go into Gehenna.

-Matt 5:29-30

Tell him to take a hint. If his eye, hand, computer, or TV is causing him to sin, he needs to start taking some extreme action to fix it.

 

[gallo]

Is this person a Christian?

Just to add, this sin in itself goes against the way we are physically designed. The reproductive organs are not designed for self gratification (hence the title “reproductive”) and it is more “apparent” with the male organ with the occurrence of the release of semen. Else, the purpose of this body fluid would have to come into question. So masturbation is using part of the body it is not designed for on top of the selfishness issue.

And as far as this being “sex”, this person is right, it’s not. But that’s more of the problem. “sex” is short for “sexual intercourse” and the ultimate purpose for this is reproduction. Masturbation is the use a reproductive organ for uses that are not intended in reproduction outside of the act meant for reproduction. That’s why it’s so disordered. This is like trying to use your ear to walk (it’s just that is a little harder to do).

The problem is when selfishness is brought into the picture, unless a person is open to the Spirit of God, anything is justifiable.

My prayers go with you.

 

[thistle]

I am discussing this subject with a person. This person doesn’t consider this a sin. He claims that since it doesn’t hurt anyone, it isn’t a sin. That it doesn’t take away from sex. and that it isnt even sex. I know that this is a sin, but i don’t know how to convey it in a way that this person could understand. This person claims that the view of a masturbation as a sin isn’t biblical. Im a poor apologist. Please help.

CCC 2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.” “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

 

[AnonymousPrayer]

I’d also like to express my own philosiphical veiws on this subject…

Technically, masterbation could be termed as killing…

each of the sperms ejaculated could have been a child…if combined with a woman’s egg of course

and to say that it isn’t could also be even defending something like abortion; every creation of God is sacred…and not to say that i’m not guilty of the sin; but i am working on that very issue as we speak.

 

[puzzleannie]

I am discussing this subject with a person. This person doesn’t consider this a sin. He claims that since it doesn’t hurt anyone, it isn’t a sin. .

you could refer him to dozens of threads here posted by men who struggle with this, and with the immaturity and poorly developed adult sexuality it leads to, and the damage that result in their marriages. or the threads from their wives who attest to the damage done to a marriage when a man is unfaithful to his wife upon his own body.

 

[Mary_Henley]

When you take any pleasure out of the context in which it was created and abuse it this offends God. That is what makes sin a sin…the fact that some one else may get hurt is secondary. Sin offends God…Whether it be eating for the sake of eating and then vomiting up to eat again…or sleeping to sleep…avoiding our duties…ANY pleasure abused is a displeasure to God.
Ask yourself…
Self, why did God create this for me?
Sex…procreation and unity of spouses that TWO may become one…not that one may pleasure one. That is the same as making love to yourself.
Food…to sustain life
Sleep…to sustain health…etc., etc.

 

[PennitentMan]

I have to say, that this is a very very tough case to bring before Protestant Christians.

I have tried numerous times on another forum site, for many many months, and I did not succeed at all.

They do not want to see the truth and the rationale on this.

It’s all about “show me where it says so in the Bible. Oh, it’s not there, we’ll, it’s okay then.”

I used the CCC sections to show them the reasoning and the logic, but all that I got was:
“Well, I’m not Catholic, so I do not believe in the Catechism. Thanks for sharing your view, but I’m not going to follow that.”

The didn’t even want to realise that I was only using the CCC to show then logic reasoning…
Good luck in your quest, but I fear it’s a tough nut to crack!

Good luck!
PM

 

[Timidity]

I am discussing this subject with a person. This person doesn’t consider this a sin.

You’re discussing the wrong subject. Instead of discussing all nuances of Catholic morality, you need to convince him that the Church is the interpreter of morals, and not him. Once someone accepts that, everything else falls into place.

 

[Charybdis]

This is a pretty tough one to discuss in Protestant circles. I have seen websites that basically say that almost anything goes in the marriage bed (and these are from very Christian types). Including oral sex, anal sex, masturbation.

They claim that there are no direct prohibitions against any of these things in the bible so as long as everyone is accepting of them, they can do them with no moral problem!!!

 

[drafdog]

The problem is one of mutuality. Sexual pleasure for oneself alone is too easy. By making it a habit, it reduces the incentive to work at making sexual love work between partners. If I satisfy myself, the spouse never learns how best to bring me to sexual release and fulfillment. I never learn how best to bring my partner to orgasm. This is the root problem of masurbation.
I have never felt that I had “good sex” unless my wife had her pleasure as well. I always felt that I had somehow failed her as a husband.
Don’t get sucked into the “sin of Onan” argument: Onan’s sin was to refuse to raise up children in the name of his late brother as was commanded him in the Torah.
Similarly, don’t get hung up on the idea that it is unnatural. The church’s arguments seem often to be couched in a reliance on an understanding of “nature” that is over 1500 years out of date. And furthermore that the arguments are not cross-topical. I’m glad that M. Henly brought up the issue of “food to sustain life”. Here is a case in which the argument that “unnatural” behavior is gravely sinful is conspicuously abandoned. If the natural use of a function is gauged by how it is used in other species (which is the basis for condemning some sexual activities), then the dietary habits of humans are clearly gravely sinful. No other creature cooks its food, it’s obviously an unnatural behavior. No other creature uses eating as a familial or tribal bonding ritual, but its value in this area for humans exceeds its value as biological sustinance. No one seriously condemns any of this unnatural behavior as sinful, much less as gravely sinful.
Masturbation is natural in that other species engage in it as well as humans. Its sinfulness is apparent principally from within the context of marital sexual activity. As to its being gravely sinful, it has been debated both ways for a long time. Don’t lose any sleep over it. It is more sinful if you are married than if you are single. But as a single Christian it may become a habit which may become detrimental to future marital relations and hence best to be avoided if at all possible.
In the love of the Father,
Matthew

 

[teachccd]

I’d also like to express my own philosiphical veiws on this subject…

Technically, masterbation could be termed as killing…

each of the sperms ejaculated could have been a child…if combined with a woman’s egg of course

and to say that it isn’t could also be even defending something like abortion; every creation of God is sacred…and not to say that i’m not guilty of the sin; but i am working on that very issue as we speak.

While I fully adhere to Church teachings on this matter, I see your view as a little over the top. Killing? What about nocturnal emissions? I see your reasoning but I would hardly view myself as a murderer if I fell into this sin. Abortion, where life is present, and masturbation, where the potential for life is compromised, are totally different. Not inviting you to my house is quite different than killing you when you get there.

Every creation of God is sacred without a doubt. But masturbation is hardly murder since no life has been destroyed just prevented. Not just semantics but in the nature of the act.

 

[OraLabora]

Hi I’m new here; devout Catholic, Benedictine secular oblate.

While I fully endorse the Church position on sexuality in general, I do struggle with the issue of masturbation. I have done a lot of reading on sexuality from a Natural Law perspective. I am wrestling with my conscience over this issue.

Natural Law more or less says it is wrong because it is a misuse of the faculty of sexuality. Sex is the one biological function requiring two people: two-in-one flesh, and the only appropriate circumstance for male orgasm is within the context of this act, within the context of marriage. Otherwise it is a selfish seeking of pleasure for its own sake (rather than a pleasure that’s attached to a necessary function like reproduction or eating). I have no issues understanding the theory, or accepting it as an “ideal”.

Where I struggle is that from a natural perspective, the human male was designed to ejaculate every couple of days. Supposedly nature provides a way when sex isn’t possible: nocturnal emissions. However in my case (I’m 48), I have never ever had a nocturnal emission in my entire life, even when going a long period without sex or masturbation. Maybe I’m just an oddity…

Medical research seems to indicate that frequent ejaculation may have a beneficial effect in the prevention of prostate cancer. In my own case, my wife is not frequently interested in/available for sexual intercourse (mostly out of severe work stress at the moment). If I try to stop masturbating, I start having prostate issues. Last time I stopped (for the first few days in Lent starting last week), it culminated with a total blockage and I was unable to urinate for about 7 hours. It was most unpleasant.

I don’t get a lot of “pleasure” out of the act, but I do get a lot of “relief”. I have some mild to moderate erectile dysfunction and very little genital sensation due to a chronic illness (which I can correct with medication when my wife is interested in sex), and reaching orgasm takes a huge amount of effort, enough to make it a bothersome chore rather than a pleasure (this is also another reason why my wife dislikes sex these days…I can’t say I blame her).

Women of course have a mechanism to dispose of an unfertilized egg and a unterine lining prepared for childbearing: menstruation. Men who are luckier than me have nocturnal emissions, or are able to have intercourse several times a week. Those of us like me are stuck with a gland that accumulates fluid with no place to go…

In my case I feel masturbation is the lesser of all evils; I don’t want to put unwanted demands on my wife for my own selfish needs; I of course won’t ever consider an adulterous relationship; and going to the hospital or doctor’s office every day to be catheterized so I can pee is a waste of public funds and time IMHO (Canada-socialized medicine), not to mention very unpleasant, when I can rectify the problem simply on my own.

Finally, I think the evidence that regular ejaculation through masturbation or sex may protect against prostate cancer later in life requires a re-think on this issue. My wife also happens to be a physician and her medical texts indicate frequent sex (or if not available) masturbation, as a conservative means of managing benign prostate enlargement (which is what I have).

If anybody can give me a good reason why I should endure urinary blockage when I can solve the problem myself, I’m all ears! I myself think the Church should revisit what is “natural” and what is “selfish” and therefore sinful.

PS, my wife is not Catholic (she’s an evangelical protestant).

 

[PennitentMan]

This is something that has been bothering me for a little while now too.

I’m not trying to find an escape route, and I’ll submit to Churchs laws but the benefits of masturbation seem to outweight the arguments.

I also very very seldom have “emissions” at night. (Maybe once/ twice a year.
I engage in intercourse maybe once per month. I have been wondering about the medical implications of very seldomly ejaculating. What does this do to the prostate gland and other organs?
Also (personal matter) that since intercourse is so infrequent, that when it happens, it is over so quickly, my wife is left unsatisfied. Another benefit of (non-habittual) masturbation.

Right now I am a little worrried about medical implications of ejaculating very very seldomly and also I know that I’d be better able to satisfy my wife if I was to masturbate.

Like I said, I do follow Church teachings, I humbly submit to them , but one has to wonder…

PM

 

[sing]

I’d also like to express my own philosiphical veiws on this subject…

Technically, masterbation could be termed as killing…

each of the sperms ejaculated could have been a child…if combined with a woman’s egg of course

and to say that it isn’t could also be even defending something like abortion; every creation of God is sacred…and not to say that i’m not guilty of the sin; but i am working on that very issue as we speak.

Monty Python, anyone?

 

[Nevarlander]

Monty Python, anyone?

“Every Sperm is Sacred” from “Meaning of Life”, right?

The annoying thing about that song is that it’s meant sarcastically. It wouldn’t be funny if it was meant naively, though.

Much better is the following skit, about a Protestant couple where the husband is bragging about how he can go down and buy condoms whenever he wants, and he keeps going on about it and listing off a bunch of street terms for them. The climax of it goes “Not like those Catholics who think they have to have a baby every time they have sex!” The wife responds, in a confused way, “But, Henry, we’ve got two kids… and we’ve had sex twice.”

 

[sing]

“Every Sperm is Sacred” from “Meaning of Life”, right?

The annoying thing about that song is that it’s meant sarcastically. It wouldn’t be funny if it was meant naively, though.

Much better is the following skit, about a Protestant couple where the husband is bragging about how he can go down and buy condoms whenever he wants, and he keeps going on about it and listing off a bunch of street terms for them. The climax of it goes “Not like those Catholics who think they have to have a baby every time they have sex!” The wife responds, in a confused way, “But, Henry, we’ve got two kids… and we’ve had sex twice.”

the funny thing about the song is that it reminds me of my family. it almost makes me homesick sometimes.

Both of those are awesome, though, I love humor that makes fun of everyone equally. It’s good to take a break and be silly sometimes.

 

[llowwelll]

OraLabora,

I think that 1 Corinthians 7:3-5 can shed some light on the issue at hand in your marriage with your wife:

3The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4The wife’s body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband’s body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. ***5Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again ***so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

I understand that there are medical issues involved which makes it difficult for you to enjoy sex with your wife. However, sex is not entirely about physical gratification. It is also about intimacy with your spouse. When one or both of you deprive each other of a gift that God designed to bring spouses closer together and that Paul commanded us not to abstain from for extended periods of time, then I believe you must prayerfully reconsider your course of action. When we follow God’s plan for our lives, all kinds of wonderful, unexpected things can happen. Your wife, as an evagelical Protestant, should be open to the words of Paul here. The Catechism supports the notion that sex within marriage is a wonderful and intimacy-building gift:

2360 Sexuality is ordered to the conjugal love of man and woman. In marriage the physical intimacy of the spouses becomes a sign and pledge of spiritual communion. Marriage bonds between baptized persons are sanctified by the sacrament.
2361 "Sexuality, by means of which man and woman give themselves to one another through the acts which are proper and exclusive to spouses, is not something simply biological, but concerns the innermost being of the human person as such. It is realized in a truly human way only if it is an integral part of the love by which a man and woman commit themselves totally to one another until death."143
"Tobias got out of bed and said to Sarah, “Sister, get up, and let us pray and implore our Lord that he grant us mercy and safety.” So she got up, and they began to pray and implore that they might be kept safe. Tobias began by saying, “Blessed are you, O God of our fathers. . . . You made Adam, and for him you made his wife Eve as a helper and support. From the two of them the race of mankind has sprung. You said, ‘It is not good that the man should be alone; let us make a helper for him like himself.’ I now am taking this kinswoman of mine, not because of lust, but with sincerity. Grant that she and I may find mercy and that we may grow old together.” And they both said, “Amen, Amen.” Then they went to sleep for the night."144
2362 "The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude."145 Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure:
"The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation."146
2363 The spouses’ union achieves the twofold end of marriage: the good of the spouses themselves and the transmission of life. These two meanings or values of marriage cannot be separated without altering the couple’s spiritual life and compromising the goods of marriage and the future of the family.
You may not now nor ever understand why masturbation is wrong and sinful. In that case, keep in mind 1 Corinthians 1:20-21,22:
“20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe…25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man’s strength.”
Sometimes we have to accept some ideas on faith alone. You may also want to check out what the Archbishop of Kansas City says about pornography and masturbation (diocese-kcsj.org/Bishop-Finn/pastoral-07.htm)

 

[OraLabora]

I certainly agree with the fact that pornography is evil and I don’t use it. And I agree with all you said about the church’s view on sex.

My issue though is that my wife is NOT interested; she is undergoing a lot of stress at work and has no desire for intimacy although once in a while she will submit to my advances. I on the other hand, do crave it and do miss the intimacy. Even if it is difficult the closeness is important to me.

I am also faced with another issue. My chronic condition affects blood circulation in that “area”; I have hemochromatosis. It’s a matter of “use it or lose it”. When my wife is not interested, masturbation promotes blood flow to the area which, as I understand the physiology, is necessary to keep the tissues healthy. And I can affirm that if I stop I rapidly lose function and intimacy becomes impossible. I need to exercise it, as it were, about 2-3 times a week for things to keep working.

I wish that exercise could be through normal intimacy. I certainly think that forcing it on my wife when she’s not interested, even though she’s breaking St. Paul’s advice, is a greater evil than masturbation.

The last time my wife and I tried intimacy, it was profoundly humiliating for me; I was struggling and asked for her help and the put-down I got was extremely hurtful.

Like I say, I struggle with this issue. I believe in the Church’s view in theory, but it is in practice that I find it difficult, and I am extremely frustrated.