How do I escape skepticism?

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is there an objective reality which exists independently of my experiences?

people sometimes say that the premise “there is no absolute truth,” if accepted, constitutes an assertion of an absolute truth. This is indeed a contradiction, but seeing this contradiction simply does not convince me.

On what are we to ground our belief in anything? I have spent many hours thinking about whether or not even the existence of anything at all is possible.

I am especially unconvinced of the meaningfulness of logic, language, reason, experience, etc, as I don’t know why I should trust my reason or experience about anything; I am heavily influenced by postmodernism taken even further or distorted to a radical and extreme skepticism and nihilism.

my philosophy teachers had told me that it’s very easy to be skeptic. well it is, and I don’t much like it, but at the same time I love it…

I do really like the idea of universal affirmation, that all propositions can be affirmed, and nothing ever rejected, sure lots of contradictions result, but what matter, I don’t like rejecting or leaving any possibility out…

but of course, if there are things which we can know and which exist, and which are real, I would want to know…

has anyone else here struggled with skepticism, and how do you overcome it?
 
First realize that, with one exception, everything changes. Everyone you know or trust will, at some point, disappoint you in some way. Everything that people hold true today, with one exception, will be found to be false tomorrow. (For example, recent studies have shown, over the past few years, that eggs are good for you, bad for you, will make you fat, and will help you lose weight.)

There is absolute truth. Absolutely there is. And this is the exception that I mention.

God. His Word. His Love for you and me. This is absolute truth and will never and can never be changed.

The people in the Church will change. They will make mistakes.

But the Word of God will never change.

Start your search for truth here and you will build a foundation that can stand up to the very gates of hell.
 
It sounds like you are in the same spot Descartes was in that led him to use “I think therfore I am” as the starting point for all knowledge. 😉

I’m not sure I can point you to a logical proof that will immediately vanquish any skepticism. I know that, for me, faith had to come first. I went through my own bouts of doubt and skepticism. I took my first step in faith and embraced Christ Jesus in the Catholic Church. Then, I found the book Yes or No?: Straight Answers to Tought Questions About Christianity, and it systematically answered all the questions and doubts that had plagued me for years.

I’m not saying this book will have the same effect for you. It might. It might not. But I have greatly enjoyed Dr. Peter Kreeft’s philosophy books. They helped me to realize that the Catholic faith made a lot more sense to me than skepticism ever did.
 
slywakka

I do really like the idea of universal affirmation, that all propositions can be affirmed, and nothing ever rejected, sure lots of contradictions result, but what matter, I don’t like rejecting or leaving any possibility out…

If you are absolutely in that camp, then you cannot read the gospels and understand them.

If you don’t believe absolutely that Jesus loves you, you are forever lost.

If you don’t believe absolutely in heaven or hell, you are lost.

If you don’t believe absolutely in good and evil as opposites, you are lost.

Does it seem to you that, if you are a Catholic, you have to believe absolutely in certain things? If you don’t, you are lost.
 
is there an objective reality which exists independently of my experiences?
Sure. Most skeptics I’ve encountered don’t really deny that there is an objective reality, they simply disagree that there is a good justification for that belief. They go around acting like all of the rest of us - assuming that other minds exist, that the laws of mathematics hold and are extraordinarily useful for the success of the empiriometric sciences, that charitable giving to the poor and suffering is a good and worthy pursuit, etc. Skeptics certainly act like they have sufficient justification for their beliefs.
On what are we to ground our belief in anything? I have spent many hours thinking about whether or not even the existence of anything at all is possible.
I know you discounted this argument above, but the very fact you are using language in the above quote to describe your experiences in a logical and reasoned way belies your assertion these things can actually be doubted. And that is one of the serious problems with Skepticism: you basically have to be silent because to do otherwise is to affirm the existence and usefulness of logic, language, reason and experience.
my philosophy teachers had told me that it’s very easy to be skeptic. well it is, and I don’t much like it, but at the same time I love it…
I suspect it is attractive because it is easy and simple to understand, not necessarily because of the unsatisfactory results it yields. Unfortunately, most issues that impact life dramatically rarely fall into the “easy” category. If you want to find the truth though, you’d better give up Skepticism now because it doesn’t claim to be able to give you knowledge of that - not even of the proposition that “Skepticism is true.”
has anyone else here struggled with skepticism, and how do you overcome it?
Not with Skepticism, but with other fideistic philosophies. Their attraction lies (I think) with the fact that they simplify the world to such an extent that it becomes fully understandable to the person. The problem is that it soon becomes apparent that such a philosophy does not explain much - sometimes not even our own experiences and beliefs.
 
You want to overcome the only solid method by which we can obtain reasonable answers to our questions :eek:

Let skepticism take you as far as it possibly can. Too many people think uncritically.
 
I know you discounted this argument above, but the very fact you are using language in the above quote to describe your experiences in a logical and reasoned way belies your assertion these things can actually be doubted. And that is one of the serious problems with Skepticism: you basically have to be silent because to do otherwise is to affirm the existence and usefulness of logic, language, reason and experience.
Yes. Then perhaps silence is all there is…
 
Yes. Then perhaps silence is all there is…
But that is the weird thing. Everybody, skeptics included, don’t remain silent - not in their own thinking and not in their conversations with others. Even if it means just discussing whether silence is all there is.

I have a question though. It seems to me that my experiences take place in a world where things objectively exist outside of my own mind. What is the more reasonable position for me to take: 1) that it is all an illusion and that I am all that exists; or 2) that the world does in fact exist in the way I perceive it?
 
But that is the weird thing. Everybody, skeptics included, don’t remain silent - not in their own thinking and not in their conversations with others. Even if it means just discussing whether silence is all there is.
Well if it turns out that nothings exists whatsoever, then there isn’t anybody thinking or having conversations in the first place.

Many things appear to have meaning but it doesn’t really convince me that meaning exists…

I can look at logical arguments and the like, but all this seems contingent on certain things existing when their existence is not proven, and neither is their non-existence proven…something must be taken as foundational…and its that act of faith in that which is most foundational which is difficult for me for some reason…
I have a question though. It seems to me that my experiences take place in a world where things objectively exist outside of my own mind. What is the more reasonable position for me to take: 1) that it is all an illusion and that I am all that exists; or 2) that the world does in fact exist in the way I perceive it?
It seems both options are reasonable in their own way…
 
is there an objective reality which exists independently of my experiences?

has anyone else here struggled with skepticism, and how do you overcome it?
I struggled with it extensively, and for about a year of my life I wasn’t sure anything other than me existed.

The way I overcame it, was noticing that even if I am the only thing that exists, there is much about the world that I don’t understand and am always learning new things. Even if my subconscious is generating the illusion of the external world/other people, my subconscious is far more sophisticated than I am since it has constructed things that I could not (including scientific theories, the universe itself, mathematical concepts I have a hard time understanding).

Even if human logic is useless, even if there is no objective reality. Something is still generating things you couldn’t consciously make, and something is more complex than you.
 
I would suggest reading G. K. Chesterton’s Orthodoxy (esp. the chapters “The Maniac” and “The Suicide of Thought”). That is the only thing that I have ever read that actually deals with the core issues of skepticism with any satisfaction.
is there an objective reality which exists independently of my experiences?
Are you taking at least your experiences to exist? Or are you doubting those as well? Are you suggesting solipsism? Or something even more radical?
… people sometimes say that the premise “there is no absolute truth,” if accepted, constitutes an assertion of an absolute truth. This is indeed a contradiction, but seeing this contradiction simply does not convince me.
Doesn’t convince you of what exactly?
On what are we to ground our belief in anything? I have spent many hours thinking about whether or not even the existence of anything at all is possible.
It is true that all knowledge ultimately rests on principles that cannot be proved. The principle of non-contradiction, for example, cannot be proven … it is merely intuited and must be accepted. If one does not accept it … then one rejects all knowledge and certainty. Skepticism commonly arises in a culture that starts to reject “faith” because “it cannot be proved.” The logical result of that, however, is that people start rejecting reason, because reasons rests on truths that cannot be proved. If you accept nothing therefore, you go into the abyss of skepticism … nothing can be known.

Reason itself therefore rests on an act of faith … you have to have faith that reason has anything to do with the world at all. Not accepting that leads to madness. While accepting that, leads to … thought. Skepticism ultimately is without thought (honest skepticism at least). You cannot prove that your mind conforms to reality, you must just accept it … otherwise you are lost. (I grabbed all this Chesterton, by the way).
I am especially unconvinced of the meaningfulness of logic, language, reason, experience, etc, …
And yet you are unconvinced because you have used your logic, language, reason, and experience in a certain way to conclude that you are unconvinced … no? That is another contradiction in skepticism. It assumes the reliability of reason in concluding that nothing can be known.
… as I don’t know why I should trust my reason or experience about anything; I am heavily influenced by postmodernism taken even further or distorted to a radical and extreme skepticism and nihilism.
I would suggest studying more good philosophy. Postmodernism makes you stupid.

Once again, honest skepticism results in thoughtlessness. Dishonest skepticism results in contradictions all over the place both in thought and action. All skeptics do not live like skeptics … they live like realists, acknowledging the reality of the universe. Even in their attempt to defend themselves, they start saying things that they regard are true … thus contradicting themselves.
my philosophy teachers had told me that it’s very easy to be skeptic. well it is, and I don’t much like it, but at the same time I love it…
Skepticism can be fun at first. It can make you look at more fundamental truths that you hadn’t considered and even give you a sense of freedom from ideas that were starting to annoy you for whatever reason.

But after awhile, it is turns into pure boredom (in my experience). It doesn’t do anything. It is pure worthlessness.
I do really like the idea of universal affirmation, that all propositions can be affirmed, and nothing ever rejected, sure lots of contradictions result, but what matter, I don’t like rejecting or leaving any possibility out…
I may be misreading you … but you said you like the idea that all propositions are true? And yet you like the idea that nothing is true (i.e. nothing can be known)?

I would suggest attaining a balanced between those extremes … and consider some things to be true and others not.
but of course, if there are things which we can know and which exist, and which are real, I would want to know…
How are you defining knowledge by chance?
has anyone else here struggled with skepticism, and how do you overcome it?
Yes, I struggled with it. But a combination of Chesterton and Aristotle cured me of it.
 
is there an objective reality which exists independently of my experiences?

people sometimes say that the premise “there is no absolute truth,” if accepted, constitutes an assertion of an absolute truth. This is indeed a contradiction, but seeing this contradiction simply does not convince me.

On what are we to ground our belief in anything? I have spent many hours thinking about whether or not even the existence of anything at all is possible.

I am especially unconvinced of the meaningfulness of logic, language, reason, experience, etc, as I don’t know why I should trust my reason or experience about anything; I am heavily influenced by postmodernism taken even further or distorted to a radical and extreme skepticism and nihilism.

my philosophy teachers had told me that it’s very easy to be skeptic. well it is, and I don’t much like it, but at the same time I love it…

I do really like the idea of universal affirmation, that all propositions can be affirmed, and nothing ever rejected, sure lots of contradictions result, but what matter, I don’t like rejecting or leaving any possibility out…

but of course, if there are things which we can know and which exist, and which are real, I would want to know…

has anyone else here struggled with skepticism, and how do you overcome it?
I overcame it. Actually, I rejected it. In a nutshell, it wasn’t doing me any good, some of the most religious people I knew were also the happiest, and I had spiritual yearnings that clamored to be met. So I basically said the heck with skepticism.

.
 
has anyone else here struggled with skepticism, and how do you overcome it?
I struggle with skepticism all the time. My advice would be not to overcome it, but to embrace it! Question everything! It’s the only way to find answers!
 
has anyone else here struggled with skepticism, and how do you overcome it?
Sometimes we can fall in to a mode of irrational doubt. This is when we value something so much and find are selves so dependent on that thing that we have a strong fear of losing it and thus we also obtain a strong feeling of doubt. It doesn’t matter how reasonable an argument is, you will doubt it. It doesn’t matter how logically necessary Gods existence is shown to be, you will doubt it. Your mind will think up some way to account for your insecurity. Some Christians start to doubt merely because there happens to be a popular current of atheism and skepticism in our society. They haven’t even heard the arguments and they are already falling over themselves in fright; and they won’t feel comfortable with themselves until everybody believes what they do.

This problem is very similar to somebody that is overtly scrupulous about moral issues in relation to their conscience. They never believe that their confession was sincere enough or loving enough or good enough. It doesn’t matter what the priest tells them, they will doubt it. They constantly doubt that they have been freed of their sin. Such a person has an irrational doubt. They think too much and too negatively; although it is good to think and to have a healthy degree of skepticism. Just not too much. In the case of somebody who is unable to free themselves from skepticism such a person would have to take a leap of faith or remain within the four walls of their brain. But to be honest; if you are willing to take life seriously enough to post on a forum that you don’t know for sure exists, surely there must be a part of you that feels it reasonable to believe that there is in fact an objective reality. You have an intuitive understanding that there is a world outside of you head.

I did actually formulate a proof for God along the lines of the Cartesian dilemma here… forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=435583

Good luck and God bless.🙂
 
On what are we to ground our belief in anything? I have spent many hours thinking about whether or not even the existence of anything at all is possible.
As Descartes famously pointed out, you can be assured of your own existence. In particular, you have experiences, and presumably you seek a model in which to predict and control those experiences. Materialism is one such model. But it’s just a model, conceived by human beings for the purposes of navigating their experiences. Matter doesn’t exist except insofar as it is part of that conceptual model.

Theists like to offer their own dualistic models as alternatives to materialism, but I have never encountered one which demonstrably helps me predict and control my experiences. Perhaps you have. If so, then by all means, use it if it works for you!
 
is there an objective reality which exists independently of my experiences?

people sometimes say that the premise “there is no absolute truth,” if accepted, constitutes an assertion of an absolute truth. This is indeed a contradiction, but seeing this contradiction simply does not convince me.

On what are we to ground our belief in anything? I have spent many hours thinking about whether or not even the existence of anything at all is possible.

I am especially unconvinced of the meaningfulness of logic, language, reason, experience, etc, as I don’t know why I should trust my reason or experience about anything; I am heavily influenced by postmodernism taken even further or distorted to a radical and extreme skepticism and nihilism.

my philosophy teachers had told me that it’s very easy to be skeptic. well it is, and I don’t much like it, but at the same time I love it…

I do really like the idea of universal affirmation, that all propositions can be affirmed, and nothing ever rejected, sure lots of contradictions result, but what matter, I don’t like rejecting or leaving any possibility out…

but of course, if there are things which we can know and which exist, and which are real, I would want to know…

has anyone else here struggled with skepticism, and how do you overcome it?
For myself, I have been able to refute skepticism with this most simple statement:

“2+2 = 4”

At first, you may say, “Ah, but is that the same for everyone?”

No matter what you do, when you take two of something, and another two of that same thing, you have 4 of that thing. It can be apples.

2 apples + 2 apples = 4 apples

It can be different objects, but they still add up to four:

2 apples + 2 oranges = 4 pieces of fruit

You can call “2” and “4” different things, but their meaning never changes. I could call “2” “blort” and “4” “zalt”, but it doesn’t matter, as “blort” + “blort” = “zalt” nonetheless.

And if there is one single truth in mathematics, there are infinite truths in mathematics, as there are an infinite number of equations and functions in mathematics.

Thus, skepticism to the fullest extent is incorrect. One single absolute truth refutes it, and that truth is “2+2 = 4”.

EDIT: Oh, in addition, if there are no absolute truths, than the fact that you exist is not an absolute truth.

In order to show this, you need to prove you don’t exist. There is tons of proof you exist, but there is no proof that you don’t exist.
 
Well if it turns out that nothings exists whatsoever, then there isn’t anybody thinking or having conversations in the first place.
I agree, but the point is that we (you and I) assume from the outset that other minds do exist. We are assuming it right now as we have this conversation. Why do Skeptics regularly and consistently assume that things exist outside of their heads if it is equally reasonable to assume the opposite? That is - why do they continue to act like objective reality exists?
I can look at logical arguments and the like, but all this seems contingent on certain things existing when their existence is not proven, and neither is their non-existence proven…something must be taken as foundational…and its that act of faith in that which is most foundational which is difficult for me for some reason…
Understood. I don’t think first principles are as faith-based as they may appear though. When we were younger, we never had any doubts that our experiences of sense perception are reliable and reflect a reality outside of our own minds. It is only upon reflection of these experiences that the Skeptic comes to doubt; concluding that there is not sufficient justification for that belief. However, the unreflective original sensory experiences we have are still beyond doubt precisely because we do experience them. I believe this is why even though Skeptics claim (upon reflection) that it is equally likely that there is no outside reality, they still by and large act like such a reality exists.
It seems both options are reasonable in their own way…
I think the power of original experience is greatly underestimated today. When two lovers dance together, I don’t believe it is humanly possible to doubt the reality of that experience. Later on - perhaps even a millisecond later - you could reflect on the experience and conclude that there is insufficient justification for it, but not at the time it happens. The justification at the time it happens is that you just experienced it.
 
You seriously need to read Descartes. He went through all this hundreds of years ago.

Of course, I would really recommend reading some good Christian philosophers, as well as Plato and Aristotle.

In any case, I think if you read some of the great philosophers, you will find that you’re not the first person to go down this train of thought. And you won’t be the last.
 
There are too many things of which we can be certain to be much impressed by continual doubting. Think of all the things you can be certain of doing, such as drinking water and swallowing food. Then think of all the things you can be certain you cannot do, such as jumping down your own throat. 👍
 
It sounds like you are in the same spot Descartes was in that led him to use “I think therfore I am” as the starting point for all knowledge.
Descartes argument goes something like, “I doubt, therefore I think, therefore for I am.” This seems to be as good as we can get for proving
existence is possible, but it sure doesn’t convince me that existence is meaningful.

They go around acting like all of the rest of us -assuming that other minds exist, that the laws of mathematics hold and are extraordinarily useful for the success of the empiriometric sciences, that charitable giving to the poor and suffering is a good and worthy pursuit, etc. Skeptics certainly act like they have sufficient justification for their beliefs.
How would an honest skeptic live his life then? Just because mathematics seems to hold now does not to mean it won’t be one day be proven false. Just because science can manipulate matter in new and fasinating ways, and we can understand complexities that were before unknown, just shows that our minds are very limited. We grope arround in darkness for the most part, occassionally coming accross a big discovery which transforms society, but the process is very slow if you were you to consider how many things we don’t know. The very condition of man is to question and doubt; we have never seen anyone except for God, who would claim to see the whole picture of reality.

So my argument here would be, if we don’t know ALL things, then we can be sure of nothing, because amoung those things which we do not know, there could be a proposition not yet discovered that renders everything else meaningless. This revelation could put an end to logic and reason itself, and we can’t say that such a revelation does not exist because we are not God, we are not in possession of all knowledge.

What could we say then about the universe if it is indeed meaningless and perhaps non-existant?? Well we can hardly fathom the possibility because our minds are limited, and they will always be limited; the universe of nonmeaning does not care and may continue to go through the ages in possible or not possible state of eternal non-existence.
It is true that all knowledge ultimately rests on principles that cannot be proved. The principle of non-contradiction, for example, cannot be proven … it is merely intuited and must be accepted. If one does not accept it … then one rejects all knowledge and certainty.
the principle of non-contradiction seems to go a long way to establishing objective truth, especially in mathematical statements. however we can still assert supposedly “false” statements like 2 + 2 = 5, and even believe the “false” statement to be “true” until some mathematician who has discovered numbers comes along and demonstrates the truth to my intellect. But what if number exists only in the mind, or as Descartes said, what if we deceived by demons about these concepts in our minds which we call numbers?
…I would suggest studying more good philosophy. Postmodernism makes you stupid…
In high-school before I studied any other philosophy I had a literature and a writing class which focused exclusively on postmodern criticism and postmodern literature. I haven’t read a lot of him, but I seem to identify with Derrida a lot. Derrida said in his last interview when asked what the most widely held conception of him was, he said the misconception was that he was a skeptical nihilist.

Derrida says he insists on affirmation and faith. To me this seems to be a powerful message. I don’t like condemning or denying anything. To me it doesn’t make sense to deny any possibility…even clearly false propositions. I like the idea that 2 + 2 might equal 5, that I may not exist, that the universe can be anything and reality can be anything I might think it to be. I emphasize that this seems to be a liberating and freeing message; A universal affirmation may appear to lead to destruction of anything useful, as Chesterton seems to imply, but as a starting point a universal affirmation gives me a positive emotional feeling suggesting that there is something of value here that should not be left behind.

in other words, would a final meaningless be a “bad” thing necessarily? why the concepts of good or bad would not even exist, everything is, or everything is not; the state or non-state of the universe can not be articulated here, and this makes sense, as who are we to think language can accomplish anything or our thoughts accomplish anything at all? I think we may put new much importance on OUR experience and brains, thinking that we somehow are meaningful or special as opposed to the experience of non-living things, or organisms with only a few cells. In the grand scheme of things or the non-existence of grand scheme of things we may be just like we might think a rock or a grain of sand to be…quite meaningless, and its non-existence perhaps not a big deal.

Of course, I would prefer to have a different view of the world, because all these thoughts in my mind make it very hard to be anything but lukewarm in my Catholic faith, so that is why I am trying to read other philosophy and discuss on this forum, so that I can escape these philosophical views I have which make it hard to be a Catholic…
 
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