How do I explain this?

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I got into a discussion with some Luthern friends about Communion, they said they only receive about once a month or couple of weeks…and they do not confess their sins to the pastor.
I asked “why wouldn’t you want to go to communion every Sunday?” and they said “why should we??? why not every two weeks?”…Soooo you can see where this was going.
Of course they don’t think that it’s"symbolic to them"…and that they beleive that Jesus Christ is truely present in their Communion.
I as a Catholic understand about transubstanation…but how do I explain it to a protestant?..they claim that the Pastor blessed the bread just like the Catholic host is blessed.
What about sin? How can they be forgiven their sins if they only confess them to God?
Heeeeeeelp!
 
It is hard to explain to a non-Catholic who believes that Jesus is truly present – body, blood, soul, and divinity – in their communion bread that He is actually not. The answer is easy for us: no apostolic succession = no valid consecration. If the priests were not ordained in the Catholic Church, under a Catholic bishop who is under the pope, then regardless of what they believe, their “communion” matter is merely bread and wine (or grape juice.) It does not become the body and blood of Christ.

Ours does, because our priests are ordained in an unbroken line that can be traced all the way back to Saint Peter, to whom such authority was given by Christ Himself.
 
Easy or maybe not… **Transubstantiation. **It looks like bread, it tastes like bread; It looks like wine, it tastes like wine, but it’s no longer bread and wine, it is the real presence of our Lord. I think the Lutheran view is that the bread and wine are still bread and wine, but with the real presence of the Lord added to it.
 
I believe that the old catechism used to say that Catholics technically only had to receive once per year (during Easter, I think) in order to be in good standing with the Church.

Now I have no idea why you wouldn’t want to receive as often as possible, given that the Eucharist is the ultimate channel of grace, but if someone chose to receive less frequently, I don’t see why that would be wrong, or why we would judge them less favorably.

I don’t know much about Lutheranism, so I can’t say why the person in your example chose to receive less frequently. I understand that their concept of Eucharistic presence is a bit different than ours (consubstantiation vs transubstantiation) but I don’t know whether that has anything to do with their beliefs regarding the frequency of communion.
 
Many Lutheran churches do not celebrate communion every Sunday- I can’t remember why this is so- I’ve been Catholic now for 15 yrs. On the other Sundays they would typically celebrate an “Order of Worship Without Holy Communion” or even a setting of Matins.
 
I thought that a basic precept of the Lutheran church is that they **do **believe in the Real Presence, although I can’t remember exactly how it goes.

These discussions always end badly with someone who doesn’t understand…
 
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OhioBob:
I believe that the old catechism used to say that Catholics technically only had to receive once per year (during Easter, I think) in order to be in good standing with the Church.
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Yup, that still is true…
 
a key part of Luther’s defection and theology was rejection of the sacrificial priesthood, rejection of apostolic authority residing in the pope and therefore rejection of the Catholic understanding of the Eucharist. That is the reason the Council of Trent had to define transubstantiation and the priesthood so precisely and forcefully. Whatever an individual Lutheran believes or does not believe about the Real Presence is beside the point. No apostolic succession=no priesthood=no valid Eucharist.
 
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Cherub:
If the priests were not ordained in the Catholic Church, under a Catholic bishop who is under the pope, then regardless of what they believe, their “communion” matter is merely bread and wine (or grape juice.) It does not become the body and blood of Christ.
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Your statement implies that the Orthodox do not possess Sacramental communion since they do not submit to the pope, yet I thought their communion has the same Real Presence as our Catholic Eucharist. Which is it?

Peace
 
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chemcatholic:
Your statement implies that the Orthodox do not possess Sacramental communion since they do not submit to the pope, yet I thought their communion has the same Real Presence as our Catholic Eucharist. Which is it?

Peace
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The correct answer is that as long as valid apostolic succession has been maintained then the sacraments that are confected are valid.

Luther himself stood by the concept of the Real Presence, but did not accept any explanation of how this happened, nor did he attempt to explain it himself. Because of writings from the Lutheran Church, Catholic theologians have concluded that they believe in consubstantiation in which bread and wine remain while Christ is also made present. This term is not used by Lutherans, and in fact is actively denied by them while, at the same time, they refuse (or are unable) to explain the manner of this real presence.

In any event, from a Catholic perspective, there is no valid Eucharist in the Lutheran Church because they do not have a sacrificial priesthood with valid orders and apostolic succession.

Deacon Ed
 
i think you’ve got some nice answers on the communion part of it
What about sin? How can they be forgiven their sins if they only confess them to God?
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it says in the gospel of st. john (ch 19 or 20?) that jesus breathed on them and said “whosoever’s sins you forgive, they are forgiven; and whosoever’s you retain, they are retained”
this has a great implication- in the bible, god breathes on man only twice- creation and this occasion. one can understand the importance of this verse by that.
it is possible to imagine that sins can be forgiven by a priest without having heard them but impossible that a priest could retain a persons sins without hearing what they are. we know that the priest has the right not only to forgive but also to retain sins. thus it makes sense that he must hear them.
the 1st letter to the corinthians also says that whoever recieve the body and blood of christ unworthily eats and drinks condemnation upon themselves. thus one needs to be forgiven of sins before communion.
anyone who believes in the inerrancy of scripture will certainly have to agree with these verses and their implications. i think lutherans will certainly fall in the category of those who believe in scriptural inerrancy
Your statement implies that the Orthodox do not possess Sacramental communion since they do not submit to the pope, yet I thought their communion has the same Real Presence as our Catholic Eucharist. Which is it?
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the orthodox communion has the same real presence as the catholic church because of the reason already mentioned in so many previous posts- they have a valid priesthood which is in unbroken continuity from the apostolic times. though they broke away from the primacy and the headship of the pope, they value the priestly succession just as much. thus, members of the orthodox church alone (and of no other church) are allowed to recieve communion in a catholic church. in extreme circumstances, even catholics are allowed to recieve communion in an orthodox church if so allowed by that orthodox church
hope this helps
pax kristus
justin
 
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kayla:
What about sin? How can they be forgiven their sins if they only confess them to God?
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I might be able to shed some light on this, as my wife still considers herself ELCA Lutheran (though she’s been attending Mass at least every other week for the last 18 years, weekly for most of the last 11, and singing in the choir with me for most of the last 8 or 9). I can only continue to pray:gopray2:

Lutherans have a 'brief order for confession and forgiveness" that they typically use on Sundays, which is pretty much analogous to our penitential rite (though of course the prayers are different… for starters they don’t ask ‘Blessed Mary Ever Virgin and all the angels and saints’ to pray for them). I don’t know if it’s official Lutheran teaching but she has always viewed this as the primary way she receives forgiveness for her sins – much in the same way that the CCC teaches us (1393-4) that the Eucharist wipes away venial sins. Lutherans also have a more extensive rite of “corporate confession and forgiveness” which they typically use on Holy Thursday. Finally, Lutherans do have a rite of “individual confession and forgiveness” but I’m guessing that this is by far the least frequently used of the three (in fact, this year on Holy Thursday she went with her parents to a nearby Lutheran church that offered this rite as part of the service, and she told me afterward that she could hear her father asking her mother something along the lines of “individual confession and forgiveness? I thought we were in a Lutheran church!”
 
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