How do I explain to someone being 90% naked is immoral

  • Thread starter Thread starter Steave
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
ok
maybe
but dressing to draw attention to the sexual parts of the body and and how that type of dressing is reacted to by others in this culture is what is being discussed. total nudity without behavior that is designed to draw attention would be better than strutting around in a sports illustrated type suit.
 
but dressing to draw attention to the sexual parts of the body and and how that type of dressing is reacted to by others in this culture is what is being discussed. total nudity without behavior that is designed to draw attention would be better than strutting around in a sports illustrated type suit.
[Devil’s advocate] Actually, if those SI swim suit models were to pose (or walk) barefoot or in flip-flops rather than in stiletto pumps, things would cool off quite a bit…[/Devil’s Advocate]

😉

Rachel, I’ll add a coupla prayers for you and you “situation” at tonight’s Mass… you seem to need them… 👍
 
That’s a good point, Ponyguy. Would you more conservative folks think wearing high heels is immodest? Besides adding height (if you’re on the shorter side, like me), they serve no purpose other than giving an attractive shape to women’s legs.
 
Would you more conservative folks think wearing high heels is immodest? Besides adding height (if you’re on the shorter side, like me), they serve no purpose other than giving an attractive shape to women’s legs.
Hmmm…
Now thats one to think about!
Don’t own too many high heels personally…hard to run after a little one in those!
My opinion is…High heels are not immodest…I think the immodesty comes from the
mini-skirt you put on along with your high heels.
 
i think high heels are usually worn not to increase your height, but to make you more sexy, so to me they are immodest and i don’t wear them or let my daughters wear them. a little heel is fine, but flats are so much better for so many reasons, and don’t give a man something to cause lust intentionally or unintentionally.
 
That’s a good point, Ponyguy. Would you more conservative folks think wearing high heels is immodest? Besides adding height (if you’re on the shorter side, like me), they serve no purpose other than giving an attractive shape to women’s legs.
i wear heals, but i never show my legs, i wear them because i wear floor length skirts, and without them i would trip,
although for others they can be used simply for vanities sake, but for me they do have another purpose.

well anyways, as far as the original subject is concerned,
i do not believe bathing suits are appropriate, especially in public where members of the opposite sex can see eachother, it is no different than walking around in your underwear, and both men and woman can be aroused at seeing the half naked bodies of others,
it is called the sin of scandal, doing something or dressing a certain way which you know may or will temp another,

it is also sinning by example, we are supposed to be good examples for eachother, and walking around half naked(not just talking about bathing suits here) is an encouragement to others, especially young impressionable girls,

the thing of it is, we are living in a mostly pagan world, and there are very many things that the world takes for granite which are infact sins, or atleast serious temptations, which must be avoided,
the way we dress must be evaluated with a Catholic conscience and not with the eyes of the world,

the world has changed alot over the past few decades, but has it gotten better? the obvious answer is no,
i’m sure we can all agree that sins of the flesh are among the most prominent sins in our current time, and it is so bad, so bad, that what use to be considered shameful and serious, is now considered normal and harmless, why? maybe because “everyone is doing it”?
has that ever made anything ok? when in history has the world become a better place when society became lax in their morals and values? no one has really “changed” in their human nature, we are still naturally attracted to the same things as always, the only thing that has changed is how much we know and how much we care, is it any secret that most people do not have a good catholic education? well then isn’t it obvious that very much of our sins such as immodesty is a result of ignorance? it’s not just that it’s accepted and looked at differently, or that we have some how “matured”, it’s that people really just aren’t being informed properly, and the world certainly has not matured, otherwise we wouldn’t be overflowing with adultery and divorce and rape and every other sin you can even think of.
and it really doesn’t matter how nudity is looked at in other countries like Africa, because that is not how it is here, impurity is a growing problem in ours and almost every other country, and immodesty plays a big part in that.

just ask yourself, or look up, what is modesty? not according to the world, but according to the Church,
and you will see by the definition, swimsuits in public being morally ok is really a contradiction against the churches teaching on modesty…

or how about this - if wearing a bikini or even a one piece in public is not immodest, then explain to me what immodesty in dress is…by the churches standards, not the worlds.
 
i do not believe bathing suits are appropriate, especially in public where members of the opposite sex can see eachother, it is no different than walking around in your underwear, and both men and woman can be aroused at seeing the half naked bodies of others,
it is called the sin of scandal, doing something or dressing a certain way which you know may or will temp another,
So, is it safe to assume you don’t think it’s appropriate to go swimming at the beach, lake, or public swimming pool?
 
and it really doesn’t matter how nudity is looked at in other countries like Africa, because that is not how it is here, impurity is a growing problem in ours and almost every other country, and immodesty plays a big part in that.
My point with the women being topless in Africa was to point out that I think the sexualization of the nakedness is mostly a learned thing, which is influenced by culture.

This does matter because if our culture treats nudity as always taboo and lust is rampant in it, while in other cultures occasional nudity is nothing that much out of the ordinary, but lust isn’t rampant in those cultures, than perhaps our culture should gradually change to be more like the latter. This is a bit of a digression, but it may be good for you to look at the theory exotic becomes erotic (dbem.ws/Exotic%20Becomes%20Erotic.pdf).

Overall, if someone is dressing a certain way in order to gain attention, that is wrong. One’s dress should be such that it would likely incite lust in the particular culture one is in.
 
So, is it safe to assume you don’t think it’s appropriate to go swimming at the beach, lake, or public swimming pool?
i don’t think so personally no, i do not go swimming in public, but is that such a sacrifice? after what Jesus went through for us? we should be willing to sacrifice anything for love of Him, so we do not offend or hurt Him, which is what our sins do,

and i’ll ask again, if wearing a bikini or even a one piece in public is not immodest, then explain to me what immodesty in dress is.
 
From Miriam Webster: Immodest: not modest; specifically : not conforming to the sexual mores of a particular time or place

Personally, I think of immodesty as purposely drawing attention yourself with the intention of insighting lust.

I do not think that wearing a bathing suit in the context of swimming is being immodest or immoral, or sinful. Wearing a bathing suit to the grocery store without a cover up… yes. Wearing a bathing suit to a bar, yes. In those situations the intention wouldn’t be swimming anymore, but only to draw a specific kind of attention to yourself. I do believe our Lord knows the difference. He knows what’s in our hearts.

I guess this is just one of those things where it’s okay to agree to disagree.
 
We can’t all agree about everything, it is true and thats okay with me.

My feelings: Sometimes the intentions for our actions may be very innocent or justifiable but the action may still be offensive and a temptation to others. Sometimes we may need to keep that in mind…
 
i don’t think so personally no, i do not go swimming in public, but is that such a sacrifice? . . .
and i’ll ask again, if wearing a bikini or even a one piece in public is not immodest, then explain to me what immodesty in dress is.
has no one here ever gone shopping in a store or on line for a swimsuit? are you not aware there are hundreds of styles to choose from that are both flattering and modest? you all need to get out more
 
I do agree you can find/wear something modest into the beach/pool. I have seen very modest wear on the internet before, you are right.
In my opinion, most people don’t wear that type of thing, at least from what I’ve seen at the public beaches… but we can all certainly try ourselves to be more modest for God, our souls and the souls of others. We can be that good example for others on this journey to Heaven.
 
This is very true, but I think we all understand that if a man can swim and be comfortable at the beach in ordinary swim trunks instead of a speedo, than a woman can just as easily swim in a suit that covers more than even an average bikini, let alone a SI-type bikini.

There are many perfectly functional modest suits for sale these days. Suits that do not look like Victorian, Islam, or Mormon-wear. Girls and women who don’t want to wear them usually have the idea that they don’t look “hot” in them. If you are truly interested in swimming, boating, or just being outside, wearing a suit like that (I’m thinking tankini or other ordinary style) wouldn’t be anything to balk at.

Yes, there are demanding, demeaning men out there. But we need to discern between that and a young man concerned for his girlfriend’s spiritual wellbeing.
From Miriam Webster: Immodest: not modest; specifically : not conforming to the sexual mores of a particular time or place

Personally, I think of immodesty as purposely drawing attention yourself with the intention of insighting lust.

I do not think that wearing a bathing suit in the context of swimming is being immodest or immoral, or sinful. Wearing a bathing suit to the grocery store without a cover up… yes. Wearing a bathing suit to a bar, yes. In those situations the intention wouldn’t be swimming anymore, but only to draw a specific kind of attention to yourself. I do believe our Lord knows the difference. He knows what’s in our hearts.

I guess this is just one of those things where it’s okay to agree to disagree.
 
From Miriam Webster: Immodest: not modest; specifically : not conforming to the sexual mores of a particular time or place

Personally, I think of immodesty as purposely drawing attention yourself with the intention of insighting lust.

I do not think that wearing a bathing suit in the context of swimming is being immodest or immoral, or sinful. Wearing a bathing suit to the grocery store without a cover up… yes. Wearing a bathing suit to a bar, yes. In those situations the intention wouldn’t be swimming anymore, but only to draw a specific kind of attention to yourself. I do believe our Lord knows the difference. He knows what’s in our hearts.

I guess this is just one of those things where it’s okay to agree to disagree.
ok but what does the catholic church say on what is immodest?

i do not really think that “what is in our hearts” applys here, because the issue is not whether or not you want attention, it’s whether or not other people are being tempted to impurity that is the issue, that is what the sin of scandal is, and it is a very serious sin when done knowingly,
of course most people don’t do it knowingly…or atleast i assume so,
but that is our job as Catholics, to preach the gospel, instruct the ignorant, and admonish sinners, lovingly.

i’ve been to public pools, i have not always been the way i am now, and i have seen the way guys look at woman in bathing suits, it is not proper, and the problem will not go away if we keep this attitude of it being “their problem, not ours”, that is not charity,
we are to love our neighbor as ourselves, and we love our neighbor also by not doing what we know will temp them to serious sins,

sure there are many modest swim suits, but how many woman do you see wearing them? i personally don’t know anyone who wears anything other then a bikini, with the exception of a few old people, and that is the problem, they may be out there, but way to many woman want to show off their bodies.

if going to the beach in a bra and underwear is immodest, how can a bikini be considered ok? the only difference is the material,
i’ve seen how guys look at girls, talk to them, act around them, it’s clear that half naked woman arouse men, and it’s not exactly hard to understand how,

we need to start looking at all this from a good catholic perspective, what does God want? He loves all of us very much, and when we go around half naked tempting others, how does God see that?
He loves you and the person being tempted, and He will not excuse you for tempting someone just because they shouldn’t have let themselves give into that temptation.

tempting others is the work of the devil, and we should not want any part of that.
it’s one thing if someone honestly does not see what they are doing, but for us, we should know better…we are Catholics, we’re supposed to be the good examples in the world, but when you look around, it’s hard to tell the pagans from the Catholics.
 
ok but what does the catholic church say on what is immodest?
CCC 2524
“The forms taken by modesty vary from one culture to another…”

The CCC gives us moral principles regarding modesty, but there are no official do’s and don’ts regarding what particulars are modest or not. It varies depending on the culture, situation, and intent.

Modesty is ultimately about properly respecting the body.

If one dresses in such a way that is likely to incite lust in that particular situation and/or culture, than that dress is immodest in that culture/situation.
 
CCC 2524
“The forms taken by modesty vary from one culture to another…”

The CCC gives us moral principles regarding modesty, but there are no official do’s and don’ts regarding what particulars are modest or not. It varies depending on the culture, situation, and intent.

Modesty is ultimately about properly respecting the body.

If one dresses in such a way that is likely to incite lust in that particular situation and/or culture, than that dress is immodest in that culture/situation.
yes, and for that reason the church gives us the “do’s and don’ts” by other means,
here is a good article on modesty which has the teachings of popes and other church authorities,
catholicapologetics.info/morality/modesty/dress.htm

and sure we have changed alot since alot of those teachings, but has it been for the better? or has the world gotten worse?
change does not mean good, and since the morality of our country has become lax, we have as a result become perverted, sex is everywhere, in our schools, on tv, in magazines, books, the internet, you can’t escape from it, and so is it any surprise that in this over sexed world of ours, that woman would be dressing immodestly?

yes, some cultures don’t become aroused at even topless woman…but ours does…and the men in our country do become aroused at woman in bikinis, i’ve been told this by other men, it’s undeniable…
 
yes, some cultures don’t become aroused at even topless woman…but ours does…and the men in our country do become aroused at woman in bikinis, i’ve been told this by other men, it’s undeniable…
Dear Emerald Wings, there are men in this nutty country of ours who would become aroused at the sight of a woman in dirty, grease-laden coveralls driving a Farmall pulling a manure spreader as it slings uhhh… “stuff” on the field.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Regards,
Ponyguy
 
Perhaps I can offer my thoughts on this subject:

Being a teenage, I get quite literally an eye’s view of this subject. Everytime I go to the beach or lake, I see what all of you have been talking about. I will confess, I do enjoy seeing women walking around in bikinis and such, but I do believe there is a point where modesty must be discussed. I believe that it gives a woman confidence if she walks around in a bikini, she has confidence in her body. Yes modesty is important, but try and compliment her. I am the same way as you, but compliment her from time to time. You should enjoy that she wants to show off her body for you. If it makes you uncomfortable, talk to her about it. You must also respect that it is her right to wear what she wants.
 
Dear Emerald Wings, there are men in this nutty country of ours who would become aroused at the sight of a woman in dirty, grease-laden coveralls driving a Farmall pulling a manure spreader as it slings uhhh… “stuff” on the field.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/ponyguy/yuk.gif

Regards,
Ponyguy
but there’s a big difference there, that girl is not dressed immodestly, whereas girls in bikinis are undoubtedly going to cause sexual arousal in public,
the men you are referring to…which i can’t say i’ve ever heard of, are the ones who would be at fault, not the girl,
but in the case of wearing bikinis, that is not necessary and it’s obvious why it would cause arousal, whereas in your example…i really don’t understand why a guy would be aroused at that…but it would be his problem, because the girl is not dressed in anything that would reveal her body.

anyways, sorry if i’m coming off as arrogant, i’m still working on that…i really understand where you are all coming from, i’m not trying to point my finger and call everyone sinners, i realize that even these girls who go around public in bikinis aren’t committing serious sins if they don’t know what they’re doing, but for the sake of those being tempted or for those who might be influenced by such fashions, i believe it is very important to instruct people on the matter…not in a creepy or obsessive way, but just lovingly…i don’t want people to go to hell, eternity is a long time…and it’s just not worth it…
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top