How do I get my husband to stop doing this?

[JenniferMoon]

It kind of impossible for me to be overly specific to this one case because I’m only hearing one side of the story and I don’t know all the details. I was speaking about couples in general and hoping something about what I said would ring true. A lot of what she was saying however, and in particular the way she was saying it, made me feel and think that she was definately fitting into the role of a persuer who is detracting, harranging, and persecuting her husband for not “loving” her enough. This information I have is from over a year of training and thought, reading and reflection, and perhaps this wasn’t the best place to share it because it isn’t something you can get or understand easily to be honest.

Thanks for the clarification, BlueKnight. I do think tho that one does not have to hear both sides of the story when it comes to cases of abuse. If that were the case, my therapists and dv unit would have been useless to me. My husband (while he was at his worst) would never admit what he did was abuse, and as in the link I showed you, he could come up with all sorts of colorful ways to make it look as tho I were the bad guy.
In Haven House and other groups for the abused, do they need to have both sides of the story?
You did say “The withdrawer is not abusing the persuer by withholding the love” which is opposite of the thoughts expressed by myself and those of us who have lived through similar situations and are able to recognize verbal/emotional abuse from our own lives.

The OP wrote:

He won’t talk to me for days, sometimes weeks. This time it has been 4 weeks of little communication,

He holds grudges and feeds his anger and lets it fester for days on end.

anything I try will be met with hostility until HE is good and ready to let things go.

This also causes me to live with a high level of stress and a sick feeling in my stomach all the time, worrying about what will happen next.

My husband used to be verbally abusive to me but he has stopped that completely now

There is nobody else he would be able to do this to

But letting him take all the time and come and go as he pleases seems to make him feel powerful and in control. Which makes things worse.

These statements by Jules sent up huge red flags for me and I’m sure for others reading. I’m wondering why you wouldn’t see them for the abuse they are.

***Jules, I know what its like being in a horrible state of confusion about what to do. I was there. I am so sorry you are going through it, I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.

 

[Tracyms1974]

Hey, everyone.

  All this talk about verbal abuse makes me wonder:  Is verbal abuse the "new" abuse?  Think about it.  It used to be that a man would beat the stuffing out of a woman.  But - have these same abusers gotten "smart?"  By not beating a woman, you leave no marks for police or co-workers to be suspicious about AND you still get the "high" from being self-important and "in control."  It is certainly something to educate our daughters about.  

  I looked at that website, the "youareatarget" website.  I must say it is very helpful and informative.  My husband fits the verbally abusive profile for sure.

Tracy

 

[JenniferMoon]

Hey, everyone.

All this talk about verbal abuse makes me wonder: Is verbal abuse the “new” abuse? Think about it. It used to be that a man would beat the stuffing out of a woman. But - have these same abusers gotten “smart?” By not beating a woman, you leave no marks for police or co-workers to be suspicious about AND you still get the “high” from being self-important and “in control.” It is certainly something to educate our daughters about.

I looked at that website, the “youareatarget” website. I must say it is very helpful and informative. My husband fits the verbally abusive profile for sure.

Its not ‘new’ persay, as verbal abuse ALWAYS precedes physical abuse and has always existed in the privacy of homes. But I do think its recognized more and people talk about it more. Unlike physical abuse, It leaves scars that do fade but NEVER go away.

 

[wigglebrick]

Hey, Jules.
I’ve told my parish preist everything about what has been going on between my husband and I, and to tell you the truth, he’s baffled. He can’t understand 1.) Why my husband won’t sleep with me, 2.) Why he won’t work with me. Well, I told him that my husband said that he can’t forgive a “cheater.” Of course, my husband forgets that the first time I cheated on him it was AFTER he said that he honestly did not know whether or not he wanted to work on this marriage.

From reading this, he expressed “honesty” towards you, and you reacted by giving your body to someone else. And you continued to do so.

My dear, your husband won’t sleep with you because the sexual act is the ultimate expression of love. It is the mutual expression of vulnerabilities. He is protecting himself by refusing to be THAT vulnerable with you. He doesn’t trust you and his pain manifests in physical withdrawal and sniping at you. You both need to be intimate in a non-physical way before you can expect to be intimate in a physical way.

I looked at that website, the “youareatarget” website. I must say it is very helpful and informative. My husband fits the verbally abusive profile for sure.

I’d venture to say your husband senses you have one foot out of your marriage and has his guard up big time. If my wife cheated on me, I’d be crushed and super pissed off too. How easy to conclude he’s being abusive - is this so you can blame him when you finally bail on your marriage?

I also get the feeling you’re to some degree unrepentant, both by things you’ve said and you’re arguably selfish need to hijack the thread. If I’m wrong, I’m very sorry. Obviously we don’t have the full story in a public forum.

(I’m sorry I can’t say this without being offensive. I want to be charitable. A child’s mommy and daddy are about to leave her after all. How utterly tragic :crying: May God help those who invite him into their marriages.)

To the OP…
I’m sorry for your pain. I gather your husband is tremendously hurt by something in his past, either with or without you. What willpower it must take to protect oneself to the point you won’t talk to your spouse for weeks. He is either an immature boy (as others proffer) or an extremely hardened man (I’m reminded of the times we all wonder in the wilderness and cannot hear Our Eternal Father).

We can only control ourselves, so I have no advice on how to love such a man other than prayer and forgiveness by you. Ask God to forgive you in front of him - I’ve found this to be a powerful way of expressing sorrow. Perhaps he’ll be compelled to pray with you since, technically, he’s not talking to you. Time before the Blessed Sacrament should help too, especially when your DH checks out completely. I pray his heart will soften and he is able to see the love and beauty you want to give him.

 

[Tracyms1974]

From reading this, he expressed “honesty” towards you, and you reacted by giving your body to someone else. And you continued to do so.

Excuse me sir, but I have QUIT doing that, and have gone to confession for every indiscresion I have committed, Thank You Very Much!!!

My dear, your husband won’t sleep with you because the sexual act is the ultimate expression of love. It is the mutual expression of vulnerabilities. He is protecting himself by refusing to be THAT vulnerable with you. He doesn’t trust you and his pain manifests in physical withdrawal and sniping at you. You both need to be intimate in a non-physical way before you can expect to be intimate in a physical way.

You know what? Why don’t YOU try living with the man for a week! He told me once, oh, excuse me, SCREAMED at me that he would sleep with someone else if I didn’t lose weight. I went on a weight loss program soon after. This is only one example of this man’s profoundly hateful behavior towards me. Every day this man finds something to scream at me about. BE MY GUEST!!! Move in! See if you can take it, big guy!!!

I’d venture to say your husband senses you have one foot out of your marriage and has his guard up big time. If my wife cheated on me, I’d be crushed and super pissed off too. How easy to conclude he’s being abusive - is this so you can blame him when you finally bail on your marriage?

I want to leave him because he’s a JERK!!! The only reason you’d be pissed in the same situation is because you actually LOVE your wife. My husband has told me he no longer loves me.

I also get the feeling you’re to some degree unrepentant, both by things you’ve said and you’re arguably selfish need to hijack the thread. If I’m wrong, I’m very sorry. Obviously we don’t have the full story in a public forum.

If Jules wants me to leave, I’ll leave. So far the only one who has called me a HIJACKER is YOU!!! Are you sure you’re not related to my husband?!!

(I’m sorry I can’t say this without being offensive. I want to be charitable. A child’s mommy and daddy are about to leave her after all. How utterly tragic :crying: May God help those who invite him into their marriages.)

Yeah, I don’t like that part of it, but I’m sick of his treatment. Or I could just do what you would have me do and TAKE IT!!!
To the OP…

I’m sorry for your pain. I gather your husband is tremendously hurt by something in his past, either with or without you. What willpower it must take to protect oneself to the point you won’t talk to your spouse for weeks. He is either an immature boy (as others proffer) or an extremely hardened man (I’m reminded of the times we all wonder in the wilderness and cannot hear Our Eternal Father).

We can only control ourselves, so I have no advice on how to love such a man other than prayer and forgiveness by you. Ask God to forgive you in front of him - I’ve found this to be a powerful way of expressing sorrow. Perhaps he’ll be compelled to pray with you since, technically, he’s not talking to you. Time before the Blessed Sacrament should help too, especially when your DH checks out completely. I pray his heart will soften and he is able to see the love and beauty you want to give him.

The only difference to YOU is that Jules did not commit adultery. I guess this fact makes her more deserving of your charity.

 

[wigglebrick]

Excuse me sir, but…

Mea culpa.

I grieve for all broken marriages, especially when children face broken homes.

Such agony. Again, I am sorry.

 

[jules11]

BlueKnight;2671767]I am trained in couple’s therapy extensively in two models of it.

So can I hire you? You anywhere near South Australia? We have NOONE here that I have seen or heard of that even cares enough to bother with difficult marriages!

I want to clarify a few points however. The withdrawer is not abusing the persuer by withholding the love. Actually its because the withdrawer doesn’t feel “safe” both because of his own insecurities and because often the pursuer is so on the attack for love and validation that they are unable to register and feel love, so even when the withdrawer tries they get shot down.

He definately does not see it as abusing. He has said to me many times that he will not stand up and fight with me. He does it to protect himself. But I have changed my ways… I do not make him discuss anymore when he doesn’t want to. I sit back and wait, and wait…

People in this dynamic are “testing” each other to see if the other “really” loves them. When the other fails the “test” the persuer then feels validated to go on the attack, yet again, and the withdrawer feels no other choice but to move away.

This makes sense… see that with us, definately.

This “testing” is the way unhealthy couples have a dialogue and it happens because people do not feel loved, respected, and cared for anymore. Often it is a mix of things; often the result of an insecure attachment style. Someone who never felt comfortable in love, never felt loved, felt abused as a child or was abused, or like many people, have difficulty with the challenges of the closest form of intimacy, the couple. All to be expected and empathized with.

Three women who left him for other men… His mother who abused him. He feels unloved and sometimes unlovable… He is very insecure, but so am I on times…

To the lady whose husband is angry with her, you have to accept that anger and give him the opportunity to forgive you. You know, forgiveness is not something we do once like God is able to in confession, for human beings, forgiveness needs to be a continual, sometimes many times a day thing. Here is a little blurb about forgiveness that I was given in training.

I don’t really think that anything I have done has been that bad for him to be angry at me. We were going to see a movie together last Thurs but because of a silly disagreement… he went alone. He is upset with me over something that is so insignificant. We tried talking the night before and we got nowhere as he was invalidating everything I said or felt!

You should pray every day for your husband so that he can forgive you. Forgiveness is really a divine quality.

Blue Knight

Thank you Blue Knight, I see a lot of wisdom in your words… and I definately see us.
I can pray that he will forgive me, but I don’t feel that I have done anything that bad that warrants forgiveness. You can correct me if I am off the mark here…
I wish I knew someone here we could go to. He does want to fix this but I have had NO luck in finding anyone that is willing to work with us or who cares about marriages in the first place.
Thank you,

 

[jules11]

The only difference to YOU is that Jules did not commit adultery. I guess this fact makes her more deserving of your charity.

Tracy, I know you are hurting… try not to take things to heart. We all need charity, no matter what we do or did. I have done and said lots of terrible things in the heat of the moment that I am not proud of. I have been very hateful towards him on times… at the time I felt very justified.
I decided that since I do not know what to do, I will leave it completely in God’s hands and now I have peace in my soul. That’s the main problem…is not having that peace. When we let go and God takes over, we know that whatever is to happen is for the best. We can only do our part. I have decided to not react with anger or hurt at anything hes says or does. It is hard, but it’s the right thing to do. Then at least I can let God work.
Have you tried being extra nice to him. It can be thankless and without reward but over time it does make a difference.
God bless

 

[dlltoms]

I am not a professional in the marriage field. I have been married to one man for 38 years. Until 4 years ago. It was abusive physically, mentily and emotionally. He has blamed everyone and eveything on his problems. I never realized he was looking for the love of his life. It is always easy to blame someone else. Instead of looking to ones self. The beatings the name calling the taking away of money. Oh he bragged to everyone out of the home how smart and talented I am but at home he treated me like some kind of slave. I was there to take care of his needs simple as that. He had a duel life. Moving in with other women and taking care of them. Spending our money on them even though it was an expense account from the company he worked for. He called it renting a room. He was saving money on expenses. His opinion of women is not very good and he always blamed the women in his life for his problems from his mother, sister, me and his daughters. You can only blame those things so far. There was the kids he went to school with they didn’t inclued him so he thought. He was caught in many situations and then it was someone else doing those things he wouldn’t do that. At our 25th wedding anniversary he said some pretty mussy stuff and expected me to say the same, pretty hard when the dress you have on is covering up the brusies he put on me 2 weeks before. I didn’t know what to say. I found sensce my divorce I am much happier and I do not have the hyper viglence that I had before. Your home should be a safe place not a place you are affraid to go to. That is your home too not just his. But everything we had together was his including the children when they did something that made him look good to the outside world. Discussing anything with him was like talking to a blank wall. And if I said anything I was judging him. Yet he told everyone I could handle other peoples money just not our money. when I discussed anything with him it always boiled down to I am a woman the weak part of the marriage to him I am weak and I need his protection. As a matter of fact that is what he said he needed to protect me from myself. I have had guns pointed at me I have been beaten with a belt just like my children were lined up and beaten for lieing and if I stepped in he would trun on me too. Many a time I have stepped in between him and the children only to end up being told to mind my own business. My children are my business. And his excuse is he is helping those women. There was alot of abuse in his family from what I can gather. And making exuses for his behavior is not the way to handle anything. He would not listen to the way I feel or what was bothering me at all. For any time that came up it was all about him and what his feelings were. He doesn’t recall any of those times at all. I am glad that God gave me the strength to endure those things and gave me the strength to get out. It was hard and it was not an easy thing to do. For marriage I thought was forever. He lives in the past always has for everytime something came up it was something out of his past. When my mom lost her left breast to cancer I remember the first time I saw her she showed me the scar and I looked then I looked her in the eye and told her mom that does not make you not my mom I love you anyway that does not make the person you are. And it was like a heavy load was lifted from her. She needed that assurance. Even though my dad was very supportive she still needed that from her children. In spite of my husband and his insecurities I still love him. I never went to anyone else. I have never had an affair on him. Never even gave that a thought at all. But was accused of it over and over and over again. All I ever wanted was for him to be happy. He is re married and from what I hear he is happy so I guess he has found the love he was looking for. I cannot change what has happened in the past that is yesterday today is all I have and tomarrow well that will take care of itself. I can tell you this it is really nice not to have to be careful of what I say or do. I do not have to try and figure out what kind of mood he is going to be in or what he wants me to say. I found I have never been affraid of satan or anyone else i was affraid of him. And that is no life. When the exuses are you spent his hard earned money and he didn’t get any at home then there is something wrong with that. He said the same about his parents and his father cheated on his mother too. His needs were more improtant than his families. His mother endeared the same kind of treatment for 52 years.

 

[BlueKnight]

Dear dlltoms,

My heart goes out to you and I feel your pain to the core. You have suffered soooo much at the hands of someone who most certainly has a Personality Disorder, likely the sprectrum of the Borderline.

I want so much to comfort you because I know how painful it is to be in such a relationship. All I can offer you is the Truth as I know it.

St Francis once said that it is often a great sign of God’s particular and personal love for us when he sends us suffering.

No suffering goes waisted if it is done and offered up to God.

Your husband is most certainly not happier with his new wife, though he may pretend to be, it is a lie.

Your love has helped him tremendously, but do not expect gratitude or love in return, this is the very problem he has.

If I were you, I would research the Borderline Personality Disorder so that you can understand the enormous amount of ego-centricity, anger, hate, and vindictiveness of these individuals. They become this way basically from the abuse they endured and the lack of love they had. You may have been the only person who ever really loved him.

To be in a relationship with such a person even for one year can be sheer torment. I sometimes wonder about the Catholic Church being dead wrong about divorce at times. Of course, the only thing that can transform a BPD person is love and a close relationship that overcomes their monumental defenses, but this can only be done with experienced help and commitment by both parties in the couple.

Blue Knight

 

[Tracyms1974]

Tracy, I know you are hurting… try not to take things to heart. We all need charity, no matter what we do or did. I have done and said lots of terrible things in the heat of the moment that I am not proud of. I have been very hateful towards him on times… at the time I felt very justified.

Have you tried being extra nice to him. It can be thankless and without reward but over time it does make a difference.
God bless

Hello, Jules,

 Thank you for not "kicking me out" of this discussion after my tirade.  Something just came over me, I'm telling ya!  Your words are very kind and I appreciate them.

 I have not really tried being extra nice, but the book I read *The Solo Partner* by Phil Deluca tells you how to do something called "reduce reactivity."  This in and of itself has been a help.  It talks about "old brain" and "new brain" behavior.  What I just did to that guy - hate to admit it, but that's "old brain" behavior - yelling, seething, even defending yourself, which I wouldn't have thought was.  "New brain" behavior is discussing calmly, problem solving, stating your preferences clearly and without a fuss.  I have tried this, albeit, not very long, and it has helped me, but not him.  It is not a very "warm" method, but it stops the fighting.  Theoretically, "warm" comes later.  My question has always been with that silly book, "How much later?"  This is the only flaw that book has, probably because it's different for different people.

 My husband was mean before I cheated on him.  Now I'm expected to wait around for him to "forgive me?"  I'd like to think that if he cheated on me because I was a horrid person, I'd take the steps to understand that the affair(s) was (were) partly my doing.  Plus - how do I know that he will not, forever and a day, use the fact that "I'm a cheater" to mistreat me.  In other words, use the mistake as ammunition against me?

  Well, enough about me.  Jules, I read the conversation between you and Blue Knight.  It sounds to me that you may be in a more hopeful situation than I am, and I wish you all the best.  I admire your courage and patience.  If you can get him to go to counselling, maybe y'all will work things out.  If your husband was abused as a child, that's a big obstacle.  Good for you for keeping the faith.

Tracy

 

[dlltoms]

Thank you Blue kight, It is a very good to know that someone else has suffered as I have. When you live in tomarrow that is what happens tommarrow never comes you live in today something I have always tried to do. for my own sanity. In these relationships you are made to look like you are crazy or maybe they want you to think that. My patron saint is Joan of Arc and she has been a very good one. In high school in world history class I was her defence attorney and I won the case the class did not burn her at the stake. As a matter of fact we have traced our family back to that same time in France. And guess how we did that thru baptizem records. Isn’t that amazing. I know who I beleive and I know where I came from and I know where I am going it is that simple.

 

[wigglebrick]

When kids are involved, I tend toward bluntness, which is a form of charity. May God forgive me when I get it wrong.

Like all marriages, mine has it’s struggles too. It would fail completely were it not for the grace of God.

I am a former rape crisis counselor and have worked with battered women. I’d never advise anyone to tolerate abuse. I also help prepare couples to receive the Sacrament of Marriage. I want to strengthen Catholic marriages for the good of everyone.

Jesus Christ gives us a reason to hope. May he keep us all this day.

 

[KCT]

I sometimes wonder about the Catholic Church being dead wrong about divorce at times.

Wrong in what way? The Church does not teach that women in abusive situations have to stay married.

I don’t for a minute think Christ expects women to put up with being abused. —KCT

 

[BlueKnight]

Really? Do you have a link to a teaching from the church on that? That would be valuable to me.

BK

 

[KCT]

Really? Do you have a link to a teaching from the church on that? That would be valuable to me.
BK

CCC #1649 speaks to couple living apart for various reasons. (Unless there is an annulment, the couple is still married, but not living together.) Individual situations, such as abuse, would have to be addressed by a priest or spiritual director. —KCT

 

[kmc404]

I too am seperated from my husband and my husband and yours they sound like they are twins. My husband states that he will not come back because he does not think things have changed. He ignores me and talks with his friends nice and happy and then looks at me with anger. He doesn’t call to talk to the kids or talk to me. I have never cheated on him and nor do I feel right now he has another woman, but I never thought he would leave our family, so who knows? He walked out on me and our 2 kids, boy life has changed and I was shocked by him leaving. This past week I gave him a card and tried to talk about his garden, gave him some tomatoes he said he is talking with a counselor tomorrow from our church but states, “I don’t want to talk with her. I am talking to her for you.” He said he will cut our grass this week. And I am trying to practice patience and not call him. I haven’t called him since last Friday and I am NOT calling him again. I am going to move on together with my children and hope and pray that my husband will finally wake up and work on our problems. I am going to be strong and I feel I need to show him that I am happy without him and maybe he will decide that our marriage is worth saving and I am not the “evil” person he thinks I am. God give us strength in our daily lives and help us be strong. I have cried and begged for ny husband to come back and that does not work. He is cold. And now he knows I love hm and I believe he feels he can walk all over me. This is my first marriage and I don’t want a divorce. I hope my husband will consider the marriage retreat Retrouville because we have one near us. Marriage is definitely work and I would consider the emotional counselor that another person suggested. I empathisize with your pain and pray that God give us strength throughout this stressful time.
God Bless, Kristen