H
hilarycotter
Guest
I am having an argument with someone.
Sorry in advance for the length. I basically referred to how we were to hold fast to our traditions. She threw Matthew 15:6 at me and I replied that Jesus was referring to korban. Here is her reply, my reply to her is after this.
"Yes, Jesus is referring to korban. The Jewish people were given God’s Law, which has
been preserved and passed to you…Oral Laws were given to the people because questions of how to keep the Written Law formed a debate between first century Judaism, not the question of whether to keep the Written Laws.
All Rabbinic literature teaches that non-written Laws or traditions of the Sages were accepted and held by the community as Torah, meaning that they were held as equal or even greater than the Written Torah. It is clear that the Jewish communities did accept the halakhic rulings as Torah, and therefore personally binding.
If a man made the vow that something was korban, it belonged to the Temple, but only ideally, because it actually remained in the posession of him who made the vow. So, a son could have justification in not supporting his old parents, simply because he vowed the designated property as a gift to the Temple. So, he was prohibited from ever using his property for the support of his parents…thus, he broke the commanment of God to honor thy father and mother.
These Judaisms (Pharisee, Sadducee, Essene) were divided on the validity of this growing oral law. It is against this background that Jesus is speaking on the claims of written and oral law and what is the meaning of the latter. Jesus came to fulfill the Law, meaning to establish. Jesus quotes the Shema and Leviticus 19:18 stating that these two precepts hang the Law and the Prophets. Love. Jesus did not abolish the written Law.
The method of blessing the Gentiles is emphasized…fellow-citizens, fellow-heirs, fellow-members, and fellow-partakers that they would not be in a seperate community, nor through proselytizing, but being grafted in to the Jewish community of God. This is stated throughout Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy…even to the point that the prophets pronounced judgement on anyone who neglected the God-given responsibility to the “stranger” on the same grounds as neglect of orphans and widows…The Oral Torah (Law) was the fence around the Written Torah (Law) that which separates Jew and non-Jew.
My point is that churches have developed many dogmas that they teach for doctrine and they are in the same position as were these Scribes and Pharisees in the time of Christ, who began to honor and hold the traditions and the commandments of men, over the commandments of God.
Thessalonians 2:15 Notice the important words, “from us” meaning the Apostles.
Paul is talking to the people that he personally taught as an Apostle of God.
Apostolic teaching means a teaching directly from the mouth of an Apostle.
Paul had passed down some apostolic teachings about the second coming of Jesus to the Thessaonian Christians. (Thessalonians 2 makes this clear) and Paul reminds them in the verse to hold firm to those teachings. Apostles did for a time communicate their teachings orally until those teachings could be permanently recorded in written form. Once the apostles committed their teachings to written form, and then died, the written scriptures alone became our final authority for matters of faith and practice. The brethren were to live in traditions received from Paul, the Jewish Christian.
Paul is the teacher to the Gentiles.
Peter is the teacher of the Jews and lived like a Jew (probably Essene) and departed from Judaism only that he recognizes Jesus from the prophetic teachings in the Torah. Jesus would build His church upon Peter. There are Jewish believers everywhere. Believing in Yeshua doesn’t change your status to Pope?
Shabbat Shalom,"
Here is what she came back with. In my reply I explained how Peter was a leader, first to see the Risen Christ, first to enter the tomb, always mentioned first when the apostles were referred to, did the first miracles, quoted Isaiah 22:21, gave her a google link of the mountain at Ceasaria Phillipia, and mention how the apostles where thrown out of the synagogue, and by eating Christs body and drinking His blood they were excommunicating themselves for Judaism (Lev 17:10).
I also asked them by what Tradition they accepted which books are inspired.
It seems to me that her reply is weak as she resort to ad hominem attacks and the sheer length of it.
Sorry in advance for the length. I basically referred to how we were to hold fast to our traditions. She threw Matthew 15:6 at me and I replied that Jesus was referring to korban. Here is her reply, my reply to her is after this.
"Yes, Jesus is referring to korban. The Jewish people were given God’s Law, which has
been preserved and passed to you…Oral Laws were given to the people because questions of how to keep the Written Law formed a debate between first century Judaism, not the question of whether to keep the Written Laws.
All Rabbinic literature teaches that non-written Laws or traditions of the Sages were accepted and held by the community as Torah, meaning that they were held as equal or even greater than the Written Torah. It is clear that the Jewish communities did accept the halakhic rulings as Torah, and therefore personally binding.
If a man made the vow that something was korban, it belonged to the Temple, but only ideally, because it actually remained in the posession of him who made the vow. So, a son could have justification in not supporting his old parents, simply because he vowed the designated property as a gift to the Temple. So, he was prohibited from ever using his property for the support of his parents…thus, he broke the commanment of God to honor thy father and mother.
These Judaisms (Pharisee, Sadducee, Essene) were divided on the validity of this growing oral law. It is against this background that Jesus is speaking on the claims of written and oral law and what is the meaning of the latter. Jesus came to fulfill the Law, meaning to establish. Jesus quotes the Shema and Leviticus 19:18 stating that these two precepts hang the Law and the Prophets. Love. Jesus did not abolish the written Law.
The method of blessing the Gentiles is emphasized…fellow-citizens, fellow-heirs, fellow-members, and fellow-partakers that they would not be in a seperate community, nor through proselytizing, but being grafted in to the Jewish community of God. This is stated throughout Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy…even to the point that the prophets pronounced judgement on anyone who neglected the God-given responsibility to the “stranger” on the same grounds as neglect of orphans and widows…The Oral Torah (Law) was the fence around the Written Torah (Law) that which separates Jew and non-Jew.
My point is that churches have developed many dogmas that they teach for doctrine and they are in the same position as were these Scribes and Pharisees in the time of Christ, who began to honor and hold the traditions and the commandments of men, over the commandments of God.
Thessalonians 2:15 Notice the important words, “from us” meaning the Apostles.
Paul is talking to the people that he personally taught as an Apostle of God.
Apostolic teaching means a teaching directly from the mouth of an Apostle.
Paul had passed down some apostolic teachings about the second coming of Jesus to the Thessaonian Christians. (Thessalonians 2 makes this clear) and Paul reminds them in the verse to hold firm to those teachings. Apostles did for a time communicate their teachings orally until those teachings could be permanently recorded in written form. Once the apostles committed their teachings to written form, and then died, the written scriptures alone became our final authority for matters of faith and practice. The brethren were to live in traditions received from Paul, the Jewish Christian.
Paul is the teacher to the Gentiles.
Peter is the teacher of the Jews and lived like a Jew (probably Essene) and departed from Judaism only that he recognizes Jesus from the prophetic teachings in the Torah. Jesus would build His church upon Peter. There are Jewish believers everywhere. Believing in Yeshua doesn’t change your status to Pope?
Shabbat Shalom,"
Here is what she came back with. In my reply I explained how Peter was a leader, first to see the Risen Christ, first to enter the tomb, always mentioned first when the apostles were referred to, did the first miracles, quoted Isaiah 22:21, gave her a google link of the mountain at Ceasaria Phillipia, and mention how the apostles where thrown out of the synagogue, and by eating Christs body and drinking His blood they were excommunicating themselves for Judaism (Lev 17:10).
I also asked them by what Tradition they accepted which books are inspired.
It seems to me that her reply is weak as she resort to ad hominem attacks and the sheer length of it.
