How Do I Know I am One of The Elect?

[Truthstalker]

The more I read Ezekiel, the more convinced I am that the Calvinists are wrong. Ezekiel 33:13 is actually a “companion piece” to Ezekiel 18:5-9. The latter states:
…
And what happens completely contradicts Calvinist dotrine.

God Bless,
Michael

Only if you completely misunderstand and misrepresent Calvinist theology.

Your statement is on the save level of ignorance as Protestands accusing Catholics of worshipping Mary and not God. Calvin recognized justification and sanctification as distinct but inseperable. If the idea of the “free ride” is Calvinist, it did not come from John Calvin. Calvin’s views are often, oddly enough, very Catholic. In reading him you will find that he often defended what is a Catholic position against what he thought Catholics believe - often he was in error about Catholic belief, but then the ignorance level of the Church he encountered was very high,. and many things had not been defined, and were not defined, until Trent.

 

[mikeledes]

Only if you completely misunderstand and misrepresent Calvinist theology.

Your statement is on the save level of ignorance as Protestands accusing Catholics of worshipping Mary and not God. Calvin recognized justification and sanctification as distinct but inseperable. If the idea of the “free ride” is Calvinist, it did not come from John Calvin. Calvin’s views are often, oddly enough, very Catholic. In reading him you will find that he often defended what is a Catholic position against what he thought Catholics believe - often he was in error about Catholic belief, but then the ignorance level of the Church he encountered was very high,. and many things had not been defined, and were not defined, until Trent.

I’m sorry, but I am not aware of ever claiming that the Calvinists believe in a “free ride.” In fact, I have asserted the complete opposite. Calvinists believe that holy conduct is a sign of election and I admire that fact. The issue is the perseverance of the saints. It has been asserted in this thread by Calvinists that if a person has not persevered to the end, they were never genuinely justified. The point of my use of the passages of Ezekiel was to challenge that idea, not to assert that the Calvinists believed in a “free ride.” And none of the Calvinists engaged in this dicussion have accused me of doing so. So to say that my statement is “on the save level of ignorance as Protestands accusing Catholics of worshipping Mary” is widly inaccurate and demonstrates that you have not read my post within the general context of my argument in this thread.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[Teflon93]

I’m sorry, but I am not aware of ever claiming that the Calvinists believe in a “free ride.” In fact, I have asserted the complete opposite. Calvinists believe that holy conduct is a sign of election and I admire that fact. The issue is the perseverance of the saints. It has been asserted in this thread by Calvinists that if a person has not persevered to the end, they were never genuinely justified. The point of my use of the passages of Ezekiel was to challenge that idea, not to assert that the Calvinists believed in a “free ride.” And none of the Calvinists engaged in this dicussion have accused me of doing so. So to say that my statement is “on the save level of ignorance as Protestands accusing Catholics of worshipping Mary” is widly inaccurate and demonstrates that you have not read my post within the general context of my argument in this thread.

God Bless,
Michael

I don’t believe Calvin is of the “free ride” school—that would be best represented by Martin “sin boldly” Luther.

The Puritans were Calvinists—anyone think they were happy-go-lucky?

I think Calvin is much too severe. The notion that sinning equates to not truly being one of the Elect has tormented many a member of the various Calvinist denominations. Where do you think all the accounts of people who suffered a family tragedy or had a sin become public knowledge resulting in their fellow ecclesiastical community members shunning them came from? It isn’t from Calvin’s advocating a “free ride”.

The great Congregationalist sermon “Sinners in the Hand of an Angry God” certainly doesn’t seem like Woodstock to me.

My issue with Calvin is that he presumes the number of Elect to be exceptionally small and the vast majority of the rest of us to be damned as a result. After all, how many of us DON’T still sin after being saved? And since Calvin doesn’t distinguish between the mortal and venial (to my imperfect knowledge; I don’t recall him doing so), any sin seems to be an indication we’re not of the Elect, right?

It results in a very rigid, white-knuckle brand of Christianity.

 

[mikeledes]

I don’t believe Calvin is of the “free ride” school—that would be best represented by Martin “sin boldly” Luther.

The Puritans were Calvinists—anyone think they were happy-go-lucky?

I think Calvin is much too severe. The notion that sinning equates to not truly being one of the Elect has tormented many a member of the various Calvinist denominations. Where do you think all the accounts of people who suffered a family tragedy or had a sin become public knowledge resulting in their fellow ecclesiastical community members shunning them came from? It isn’t from Calvin’s advocating a “free ride”.

The great Congregationalist sermon “Sinners in the Hand of an Angry God” certainly doesn’t seem like Woodstock to me.

My issue with Calvin is that he presumes the number of Elect to be exceptionally small and the vast majority of the rest of us to be damned as a result. After all, how many of us DON’T still sin after being saved? And since Calvin doesn’t distinguish between the mortal and venial (to my imperfect knowledge; I don’t recall him doing so), any sin seems to be an indication we’re not of the Elect, right?

It results in a very rigid, white-knuckle brand of Christianity.

Agreed. I just don’t understand why Truthstalker would believe that I was saying that the Calvinists believe in a “free ride.” I never said that nor do I believe that.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[djrakowski]

I think Calvin is much too severe. The notion that sinning equates to not truly being one of the Elect has tormented many a member of the various Calvinist denominations. Where do you think all the accounts of people who suffered a family tragedy or had a sin become public knowledge resulting in their fellow ecclesiastical community members shunning them came from? It isn’t from Calvin’s advocating a “free ride”.

It happened to me. When we discovered that two of our children had autism, we lost practically all of our friends. We routinely heard sermons on the fact that suffering was a form of punishment only, and not an opportunity for growth in sanctity. One wonders if my former pastor ever read the book of Job (I know he never preached on it, anyways).

 

[Teflon93]

It happened to me. When we discovered that two of our children had autism, we lost practically all of our friends. We routinely heard sermons on the fact that suffering was a form of punishment only, and not an opportunity for growth in sanctity. One wonders if my former pastor ever read the book of Job (I know he never preached on it, anyways).

I am very sorry to hear that.

Unfortunately, I think that kind of “blame the sufferer” response is a natural implication of Calvinist theology, at least more so than the “free ride” Truthstalker mentioned.

After all, if we assume that the Elect do not suffer and do not sin, and that we are one of the Elect, there is a marked tendence to feel superior to others, particularly those whose suffering and sins mark them as not “in the club”.

When your children were diagnosed, did you have a crisis of doubt that you were indeed of the Elect?

I understand that that’s also a pretty common reaction among adherents of Calvinist theology.

My wife’s old boss was a member of the Word of Faith movement, and they firmly believed that any suffering you endured was because you willed it on yourself, you “spoke it into existence”, another variation on the theme.

It seems a very hard way to live to me.

 

[Truthstalker]

I’m sorry, but I am not aware of ever claiming that the Calvinists believe in a “free ride.” In fact, I have asserted the complete opposite. Calvinists believe that holy conduct is a sign of election and I admire that fact. The issue is the perseverance of the saints. It has been asserted in this thread by Calvinists that if a person has not persevered to the end, they were never genuinely justified. The point of my use of the passages of Ezekiel was to challenge that idea, not to assert that the Calvinists believed in a “free ride.” And none of the Calvinists engaged in this dicussion have accused me of doing so. So to say that my statement is “on the save level of ignorance as Protestands accusing Catholics of worshipping Mary” is widly inaccurate and demonstrates that you have not read my post within the general context of my argument in this thread.

God Bless,
Michael

Woops. Apparently I misinterpreted what you said and acted accordingly. Now I will have to re-read this and respond (if at all)appropriately. Sorry.

 

[Calvinator]

After all, if we assume that the Elect do not suffer and do not sin, and that we are one of the Elect, there is a marked tendence to feel superior to others, particularly those whose suffering and sins mark them as not “in the club”.

You constantly mis-represent the reformed postion.

Can you produce a standard text where any reformed theologian says:
a.) The elect don’t suffer.

and

b.) The elect don’t sin.

You seem to have a fetish for being inaccurate on this matter.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Here’s what Satan would say: “So what if the Elect suffer and so what if they sin–if they can’t be lost–why shouldn’t they just sin boldly like Luther says?”

“you can have your cake and eat it, too.”

“Just between you and me we both know that you really did accept christ as your savior–I was whipped for good.”

“Look if it bothers you refrain from sinning but let’s get real–don’t let it bother you so much–you’re already going to heaven anyway.”

“If you sin every now and again so what? God will forgive you. You’re the Elect!”

“And since you are the Elect all that nonsense the Catholics say about Mortal Sin–don’t let it bother you in the least.”

"I want bother you anymore–“I think you’ve got everything down pat.”

Does anyone out there think that Satan never engages in such conversations?

What is worse–someone who thinks that such conversations never take place–or someone who has comforted themselves with the notion of the Preservation of the Elect until they have convinced themselves that Satan never talks to them like that?

Shame on you if you fool yourself–all that does is make your own ears deaf to the truth that could save you in the end and could in fact make you one of the Elect.

Where we start the salvation journey at conversion is not important–where we end it at death is what is important.

God knows how that journey will turn out–Him knowing it should have absolurtely no effect whatsoever on how we relate to Him!

To “Fear and Tremble” as the scriptures say for our salvation honors God more that 10 zillion verses of the hymn “Blessed Assurance”.

How can anyone say “Jesus is mine”?

I don’t know about you but i’ll tell you this: God is too big for me to Posses.

If I could Posses God–I’d be God!

Funny–Satan has been trying to sell that since Adam and Eve!

 

[djrakowski]

When your children were diagnosed, did you have a crisis of doubt that you were indeed of the Elect?

No, I didn’t, but my wife did. I knew what they were saying was bunk. However, it was just one of the many factors that prompted me to consider Catholicism.

To be fair, I’m not sure I would characterize my former church as strictly Calvinist, but there were elements of that theology present in the teachings we heard from the pulpit. In particular, we believed in the idea that a person who fell into sin after having a conversion never really had a conversion at all, since he wasn’t “once-saved-always-saved,” and that’s a theme I’ve often heard in Calvinist apologetics. We also believed in a form of total depravity, although it was never stated in quite those words.

 

[Mike_Brick]

Where we start the salvation journey at conversion is not important–where we end it at death is what is important.

Well said, Jerry-Jet, well said!

 

[mikeledes]

There are other verses that pose a challenge to Calvinist theology. I would like to examine the following passage:

Revelatioan 3:14-19

**14"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:
15’I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot.
16’So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.
17’Because you say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,” and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,
18I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.
19’Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. **

Now we know this is referring to Christians because Jesus said that they are a church and thus they have at least made a profession of faith and have been baptized. Now the Calvinist might object and say “They may be professing Christians, but not genuine Christians.” The problem with this is that a purely “professing” cannot be a child of God in Calvinist theology. The Calvinist might argue, “There is no indication that they are children of God.” Actually, there is. Let’s reread Revelation 3:19:

**19’Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. **

Now haven’t we heard what I highlighted before? Yes we have!

Hebrews 12:5-8

**5and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons,
“MY SON, DO NOT REGARD LIGHTLY THE DISCIPLINE OF THE LORD,
NOR FAINT WHEN YOU ARE REPROVED BY HIM;
6FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES,
AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES.”
7It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
8But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. **

The point of this passage from Hebrews is that God disciplines His SONS. Revelation 3:19 is almost a word for word repetition of Hebrews 12:6. And this discpline from the Lord is given to His sons, the children of God! Hebrews 12:8 states that if they are not dsiciplined by the Lord, they are illegitimate children and thus are not His sons. Therefore, Jesus in Revelation 3:19 is acknowledging that the the church of Laodicea are children of God and is exhorting them to repent and be zealous. Otherwise, He will spit them out of His mouth, which is certainly not a good inidication of where they are headed.

To be continued…

God Bless,
Michael

 

[OneForTruth]

To be fair, I’m not sure I would characterize my former church as strictly Calvinist, but there were elements of that theology present in the teachings we heard from the pulpit. In particular, we believed in the idea that a person who fell into sin after having a conversion never really had a conversion at all, since he wasn’t “once-saved-always-saved,” and that’s a theme I’ve often heard in Calvinist apologetics.

1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

This is what they will hear…

Mt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They tasted…they were enlightened…they had knowledge…but were not truly converted. They were lying to themselves and deceiving themselves…

1Jo 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we** deceive ourselves**, and the truth is not in us.

And, as I have shown, he loses what he THINKS he has. The appearance on the outside is that he lost his salvation…but, in reality, it never was.

Luke 8:18 “So take care how you listen; for whoever has, to him more shall be given; and whoever does not have, **even what he thinks he has **shall be taken away from him.”

Good Day All

1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

 

[mikeledes]

Now let’s examine the spiritual state of the Laodiceans.

Revelation 3:16-18

**16’So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.
17’Because you say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,” and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,
18I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see. **

Now the spiritual state of the Laodiceans is not good at all. Not only are they lukewarm, but they are also described as being “wretched”, “miserable”, “poor”, “blind,” and “naked.” The Calvinists may argue that this is a sign that they were not truly saved. However, as I demonstrated in the previous post, Jesus essentially acknowledges them to be children of God in Revelation 3:19 and I don’t believe He would make a mistake. What it indicates is their spiritual state at the time the message was given. It does not mean that they were always in this state. From a Catholic perspective, this is the state of one who has fallen from grace. Why did the Laodiceans fall from grace? Well it seems that lukewarmness is not the only issue for it says that “**'Because you say, 'I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing.” **This is evidence that they had become conceited as well. And what does the Bible say about becoming conceited?

Romans 11:20-22

**20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. **

Also 1 Timothy 3:6

**6and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil. **

This is also essentially the situation (i.e. becoming conceited) we find in Ezekiel 33:13

13"When I say to the righteous he will surely live, and he so trusts in his righteousness that he commits iniquity, none of his righteous deeds will be remembered; but in that same iniquity of his which he has committed he will die.

When we no longer recognize our dependance on God, we become conceited and that leads to a fall from grace and being severed from Christ/ cut off. The end of this cutting off is eternal damnation:

John 15:6

"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

So the Laodiceans are in a serious spiritual state. However, this poses a challenge to Calvinists. If a child of God can fall into such a state by falling from grace (Galatians 5:4), then how can they know if they are of the elect?

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

And, as I have shown, he loses what he THINKS he has. The appearance on the outside is that he lost his salvation…but, in reality, it never was.

Luke 8:18 “So take care how you listen; for whoever has, to him more shall be given; and whoever does not have, **even what he thinks he has **shall be taken away from him.”

Good Day All

Once again I will have to challenge this. Let me repost what I posted in another thread:

Matthew 25:14-30

**14"For it is just like a man about to go on a journey, who called his own slaves and entrusted his possessions to them.
15"To one he gave five talents, to another, two, and to another, one, each according to his own ability; and he went on his journey.
16"Immediately the one who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and gained five more talents.
17"In the same manner the one who had received the two talents gained two more.
18"But he who received the one talent went away, and dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.
19"Now after a long time the master of those slaves came and settled accounts with them. 20"The one who had received the five talents came up and brought five more talents, saying, ‘Master, you entrusted five talents to me. See, I have gained five more talents.’
21"His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’
22"Also the one who had received the two talents came up and said, ‘Master, you entrusted two talents to me. See, I have gained two more talents.’
23"His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’
24"And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed.
25’And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.’
26"But his master answered and said to him, ‘You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.
27’Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest. 28’Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.’
29"For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. 30"Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. **

So the servant who had only one talent only thought he had one talent? And he hid is imaginary talent in the ground? And his lord was demanding that he put an imaginary talent in the bank and get imaginary interest. and the imaginary talent was taking away and given to another? That makes absolutely no sense. What he has is real and given to him by his lord. This parable clearly demonstrates what happens if the gifts God gives us (grace, faith, etc.) remain unfruitful. As I stated earlier, the point of Luke 8:18 is to express the thoroughness of the taking away. It is so thorough that even what a person thinsk they have will be taken away. That is an image of the total desolation one experiences in hell. What you have shown is your interpretation of Luke 8:18, an interpretation that is not consistent with the rest of the Bible.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

This is what they will hear…

Mt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They tasted…they were enlightened…they had knowledge…but were not truly converted. They were lying to themselves and deceiving themselves…

So the Galatians were never really Christian?

Galatians 1:6

**6I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; **

Is not deserting your Savior for a false gospel a serious sin? And yet we have a verse like:

Galatians 3:3

3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

Which indicates that they were genuinely saved. And yet it later says:

Galatians 5:2-4

**2Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
3And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
4You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. **

Their desertion of Christ has resulted in their being severed from Christ and a fall from grace, the very essence of mortal sin. How about righteous King Solomon. We learn from 1 Kings 11:1-13 that not only did he disobey the Lord by marring many foreign women, but he fell into the grievous sin of idolatry. 1 Kings 11:9

**9Now the LORD was angry with Solomon because his heart was turned away from the LORD, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice, **

King Solomon is even described as having forsaken the Lord (1 Kings 11:33-34). The testimony of God holy Word overwhelmingly contradicts your interpretation of the verses you provided. Ezekiel alone stands as a witness against this interpretation.

Since you have completely closed yourself off to actually listening to an alternative perspective - you have indicated that you would never become Catholic - I primarily continue in this discussion for the benefit of fellow Catholics and other Christian brothers and sisters. I have not completely closed myself off to your views. But when I see that you use the same argument I have completely rebutted using the clear words of Scripture - like Luke 8:18 - and you continue using it as if no one has ever responded to you, completely ignoring the rebuttal as if it never existed, then I have no choice but to accept that my argument still stands. I am more than willing to continue to engage in this discussion in order to shed greater light on the truth, but no discussion is fruitful if we make our minds and hearts an impenetrable fortress.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

I would like to examine four verses, all of which touch on the issue of perseverance. I ask that they be read prayerfully and with care.

1 Corinthians 9:26

26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

Romans 8:12-13

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Philippians 3:12-14

12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 4:11

11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

Now the first verse is often explained away by claiming that it is merely talking about rewards, not salvation. However, this argument contradicts the Calvinist notion of the perseverance of the saints. Why? Because if Saint Paul had been disqualified, it would be because he failed to keep his body in subjection and that would mean he was overcome by sin. This reminds me of 2 Peter 2:20:

**20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world **through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.

So if perseverance is a sign of election, then 1 Corinthian 9:26 cannot be about mere rewards. If a person failed to persevere and was disqualified and did not receive the crown, does that not also mean that the person will not be saved? Compare** Matthew 10:22**

"… But he who endures to the end will be saved."

with Revelation 2:10

Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

and James 1:12

12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

So if the crown is given to all those who persevere to the end, then does that not mean that is given to all those who are glorified? If this is so, then doesn’t diqualification from receiving the crown mean the same thing as disqualification from being glorified? Thus Paul can only be talking about disqualification from final salvation in 1 Corinthians 9:26. But if he were a Calvinist, would he cast such doubt on his own salvation? It seems that Calvinists are far more certain of their own salvation than Saint Paul.

So regarding the original question of this thread, I respond with Saint Paul’s own words:

1 Corinthians 4:4-5

4For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord.
5Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God.

God Bless,
Michael

Linkowski/ OneforTruth, this post has gone unanswered.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

The following post has also gone unanswered:

God gives us graces and spiritual gifts so that we may perform the good works that glorify Him. You reap what you sow.

2 Corinthians 9:6-10

6Now this I say, he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully.
7Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
8And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed;
9as it is written,
“HE SCATTERED ABROAD, HE GAVE TO THE POOR,
HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS ENDURES FOREVER.”
10Now He who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will supply and multiply your seed for sowing and increase the harvest of your righteousness;

However, what will happen to those Christians who fail to use these gifts ang graces for the greater glory of God?

Matthew 25:14-30

**14"For it is just like a man about to go on a journey, who called his own slaves and entrusted his possessions to them.
15"To one he gave five talents, to another, two, and to another, one, each according to his own ability; and he went on his journey.
16"Immediately the one who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and gained five more talents.
17"In the same manner the one who had received the two talents gained two more.
18"But he who received the one talent went away, and dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.
19"Now after a long time the master of those slaves came and settled accounts with them.
20"The one who had received the five talents came up and brought five more talents, saying, ‘Master, you entrusted five talents to me. See, I have gained five more talents.’
21"His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’
22"Also the one who had received the two talents came up and said, ‘Master, you entrusted two talents to me. See, I have gained two more talents.’
23"His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’
24"And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed.
25’And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.’
26"But his master answered and said to him, ‘You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.
27’Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest. **
28’Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.’
29"For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.
30"Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The “slaves” can only refer to genuine Christians because only to them would Jesus leave His “possessions.” What happened to the one given one talent (i.e. seed) and did not do anything with it (i.e. sow) in order to gain a profit for His master (i.e. reap a harvest and glorify God.)? His “talent” was taken away from him and he was cast into hell. Not a very nice end. This reminds me of John 15:2:

**2"Every branch in Me **that does not bear fruit, He takes away;

Being “in Christ” is a spiritual reality, not a physical reality. A so called “professing” Christian may be physically a member of a Church, but he can never be described as being in Christ (branch in me), if he is not genuinely saved. He cannot be a branch of the vine because a branch is an integral part of the vine, it is literally a part of the body. Once again, further evidence that there are those “in Christ” (i.e. justified) who will not persevere.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

No response to this post either. The testimony of Scripture is quite clear. When God calls a person righteous, He means what He says. He will not call someone righteous if they have not been justified by His grace.

So class, let’s review what we’ve learned from Ezekiel.

"You shall llive means that God has deemed/declared you righteous and pleasing in His sight. Thus, it can never refer to someone who has not been justified by His grace:

Ezekiel 3:21

21"However, if you have warned the righteous man that the righteous should not sin and he does not sin, he shall surely live because he took warning; and you have delivered yourself."

Ezekiel 18:9

**9if he walks in My statutes and My ordinances so as to deal faithfully–he is righteous **and will surely live," declares the Lord GOD.

Ezekiel 18:21

21"But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

"You shall die means that God has deemed you unrighteous/wicked and God has not found you pleasing in His sight.

Ezekiel 3:19

**19"Yet if you have warned the wicked and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his wicked way, he shall die **in his iniquity

Ezekiel 18:13

13… He will not live! He has committed all these abominations, he will surely be put to death…"

Ezekiel 18:23

23"Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked," declares the Lord GOD, "rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?

God never says He shall surely live to anyone who is not righteous in His sight, to a person who has not been justified by His grace. Therefore, when we have a verse like:

Ezekiel 33:13

13"When I say to the righteous he will surely live, and he so trusts in his righteousness that he commits iniquity, none of his righteous deeds will be remembered; but in that same iniquity of his which he has committed he will die.

God will never call a person “righteous” if they have not been justified by His grace and he would definitely not tell that person he shall surely live - a phrase only used in reference to the genuinely righteous and the repentant sinner - if that person is not pleasing in His sight and has not genuinely repented of his sins. That would contradict His express words. These passages are pretty clear and it contradict Calvinism. No “word” gymnastics can obscure the obvious.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[Linkowski]

I have six children (8 and under) and a wife, a full time job, and a house and a church/ministry. Sorry…I cannot respond to all that you are saying. It is quite a bit of information. Listen to the link that I sent to you.