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jmcrae
Guest
The Eastern Catholic Bishops are in full communion with the Pope. “Your Bishop who is in communion with the Pope” also includes the Eastern Bishops, but does not include schismatic Bishops.
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PacoG
Guest
If you check out the photograph galleries on the web page, there are pictures from a Confirmation Mass. The confirming bishop is Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais. If you google Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, you soon find out that he is a SSPX bishop.
That parish is not in communion with the local ordinary or with Rome.
That parish is not in communion with the local ordinary or with Rome.
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malphono
Guest
Yes, that’s true. But there is no mention of the SSPX or even one of the sede outfits like the SSPV. That notable lack of information on their own website leads me to think that, while the bishop may have done a favor, it’s far from clear that the shrine has anything directly to do with the SSPX. In any case, if it were me, I would still err on the side of caution and not get involved.
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Koneko
Guest
I think you misunderstood my question. The question was not whether daily mass satisfies the Sunday obligation. The question was whether going to that church on Sunday satisfies the Sunday obligation. It clearly does not.
I understand that it is unreasonable for me to expect the church to be quiet before any weekend mass. However, I have been quite surprised at the number of churches where people talk before daily mass. I have been attending 8 AM mass before I go to work. I always sit in the back corner by myself. It doesn’t help. Talking seems to have become the norm. It’s as if people must walk in and let their friends know they are there and start up a conversation. I believe they are speaking loud because many are older and hard of hearing. It is not just one person. There are several “groups” of people that do it. I noticed the pastor also having a friendly conversation with one of the “loud” persons before mass. I also talked to a different priest about it and told him that I like to pray quietly before or after mass and I cannot do it. He told me that old people are hard of hearing. It was especially frustrating the other day when we were saying group rosary after mass and a loud group was standing 5 feet from us having a conversation. There was no reason they could not have gone to the vestibule. I feel since I am “new” that it is not my place to start asking many people to stop talking. It is unfortunate because I am limited to the number of churches I can go to and still make it to work on time. I was happy to have found St Pius V because they are very strict about the talking, but now I have to keep searching for another church or just deal with the noise.
Sorry for the rant.
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Mrs_Sally
Guest
Your rant is completely understandable. One thing that helped me deal with situations like that tremendously was something said on another thread here. Many times older people live very quiet lives–they don’t go out to work and don’t socialize as much. In that case, the people they see at Mass and the opportunity to chat before or after may be their only ‘outing’ for the day (or even a couple of days if they can’t get out to Mass every day). That really helped me handle the chatting better and even focused my prayers on them!
Thankfully, my parish is usually pretty quiet before Mass (after Mass is when the group rosary is recited), but not all parishes I’ve gone to are like that.
Thankfully, my parish is usually pretty quiet before Mass (after Mass is when the group rosary is recited), but not all parishes I’ve gone to are like that.
I think you misunderstood my question. The question was not whether daily mass satisfies the Sunday obligation. The question was whether going to that church on Sunday satisfies the Sunday obligation. It clearly does not.
I understand that it is unreasonable for me to expect the church to be quiet before any weekend mass. However, I have been quite surprised at the number of churches where people talk before daily mass. I have been attending 8 AM mass before I go to work. I always sit in the back corner by myself. It doesn’t help. Talking seems to have become the norm. It’s as if people must walk in and let their friends know they are there and start up a conversation. I believe they are speaking loud because many are older and hard of hearing. It is not just one person. There are several “groups” of people that do it. I noticed the pastor also having a friendly conversation with one of the “loud” persons before mass. I also talked to a different priest about it and told him that I like to pray quietly before or after mass and I cannot do it. He told me that old people are hard of hearing. It was especially frustrating the other day when we were saying group rosary after mass and a loud group was standing 5 feet from us having a conversation. There was no reason they could not have gone to the vestibule. I feel since I am “new” that it is not my place to start asking many people to stop talking. It is unfortunate because I am limited to the number of churches I can go to and still make it to work on time. I was happy to have found St Pius V because they are very strict about the talking, but now I have to keep searching for another church or just deal with the noise.
Sorry for the rant.
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Koneko
Guest
Yes I think it is a very nice thing for them to get together to socialize and attend mass together. It is why I am reluctant to say anything to them. I wonder if there is some sort of compromise like maybe they can gather after the mass in the church hall or something. Maybe I am asking for too much to pray quietly. Are there actually any churches which prohibit talking before morning mass?
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Cluny
Guest
If it’s an Eastern Catholic Church it will still be listed on the Eparchy’s (Eastern Diocese) website that covers your area.
The point I’m trying to make is that Eastern Catholic Churches will not be listed on the webside of the Latin diocese.
But that would not make them un-Catholic.
Most Eastern Catholic churches in the USA have their own bishops and structure. Only a very few, such as the Russian Catholics, are under the Latin bishop.
The point I’m trying to make is that Eastern Catholic Churches will not be listed on the webside of the Latin diocese.
But that would not make them un-Catholic.
Most Eastern Catholic churches in the USA have their own bishops and structure. Only a very few, such as the Russian Catholics, are under the Latin bishop.
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FrDavid96
Guest
The original poster asked about a church that describes itself as having “the Roman Catholic Traditional Tridentine Latin Mass” I think that safely eliminates any possibility that it might be an Eastern parish–unless anyone knows of an Eastern parish celebrating the “Traditional Tridentine Latin Mass.”
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Cluny
Guest
My point, which I did not make clearly, is that not being listed on the Latin diocese’s website is no indication that a given Church is in fact NOT a Catholic Church.
The Origiinal Poster may well love an Eastern Catholic liturgy if he attended it.
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LRThunder
Guest
Actually, some Latin dioceses do list parishes for Eastern Catholic Churches. I know a couple offhand, the Diocese of St. Augustine, and the Archdiocese of Miami.
But it is correct that those particular parishes don’t fall under the jurisdiction of the local Latin rite bishop.
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cspb56
Guest
The question by the OP was is this parish in union with Rome and the answer is no. It is also not eastern rite. All eastern rite churches are in the arch’s directory on pages 230-231. Also the listing of shrines is in the directory. This parish has tried for years to convince catholics that it is alright for them to attend and as I stated in a previous post the arch has had to make public omments warning catholics it is not permissible to attend.
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mullenpm
Guest
What a situation. 
On reading the initial posting I thought to myself - that is the perfect Catholic Church. And I clicked the link to their web site and it again sounds perfect, except for the fact that I believe it is not really a “Catholic Church”.
I definitely would call the Bishop’s office and check them out.
I really wish, though, that all Catholic Churches would follow this chapel’s posted rules about reverence and quiet within the church. I have no objection to a Pauline Mass that is celebrated according to the liturgy.
Koneko, you are not asking too much by wanting to have a peaceful and quiet church in which to pray. Please posters don’t use “old” people as an excuse for the noise. These “old” people can take their conversations outside on the church steps as can the housewives, the teenagers, the sports fans, etc. There is no reason to talk inside the church to catch up on social goings-on.
On reading the initial posting I thought to myself - that is the perfect Catholic Church. And I clicked the link to their web site and it again sounds perfect, except for the fact that I believe it is not really a “Catholic Church”.I definitely would call the Bishop’s office and check them out.
I really wish, though, that all Catholic Churches would follow this chapel’s posted rules about reverence and quiet within the church. I have no objection to a Pauline Mass that is celebrated according to the liturgy.
Koneko, you are not asking too much by wanting to have a peaceful and quiet church in which to pray. Please posters don’t use “old” people as an excuse for the noise. These “old” people can take their conversations outside on the church steps as can the housewives, the teenagers, the sports fans, etc. There is no reason to talk inside the church to catch up on social goings-on.
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saskatoon
Guest
True, SSPX is not a Catholic rite as a previous post pointed out. They are traditional priests and bishops, validly ordained, that say the Tridentine Rite, which is a valid rite in the church. They are not schismatic. Archbishop Lefeve (I know I spelled his name wrong) did not like the way the church was headed with the changes Vatican ll was making and wanted to preserve the traditions of the church. He ordained a couple of bishops, which was the reason in part for his “excommunication”. I would be cautious of other orders that promote the Latin Mass. Many of them are sede vacantis (again, sorry for the spelling), being they do not believe there is a pope. SSPX does recongnize the pope. SSPX owns their churches, they have to purchase the building and property. I would check the SSPX website and see if the churches name is on their list as one of theirs. It is hard to find a quiet church, but SSPX members know they are in the house of God and refrain from idle chatter. Crying babies are usually the noise makers and at my church the parents are good at taking them out for some air.
Are you referring to St Pius V society or a chapel? Where is the chapel?
Are you referring to St Pius V society or a chapel? Where is the chapel?
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jmcrae
Guest
And yet, they are also not in full communion with the Pope.
We are not to participate in anything to do with the SSPX or any other separatist or self-operating group. Again, if they are not affiliated with your local Papally-appointed Bishop (whether he is of the Latin or one of the Eastern Rites) then avoid, avoid, avoid - don’t go anywhere near them.
The Pope appoints the Bishops, and we are to follow the Bishops that the Pope has appointed. No one else. It has been thus since at least the time of Irenaeus of Lyons, and it was not an innovative idea even in his times.
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JimG
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I think this sums it up.
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mdgspencer
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To see if it is a Catholic church, you could go onto the diocesan web page (just type Chicago diocese on google) Or you could phone the diocese too as people here suggest. If they are not under the bishop they are not a Catholic parish no matter what they call themselves. Obviously they are trying to fool Catholics by appearances so that they will become members of their group. I met and married my wife in the Philippines. The second time I was there I found that a man who claimed, and when she went she found it strange. I found out that the was an Episcopal missionary from California pretending to be a Catholic (luckily he couldn’t fool enough Cathlics and finally moved on.) This group in Chicago is committing this sort of fraud on Catholics.
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