How do I know if it's God, or just my brain?

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Hi Barb,

First, some technical help with your mouse. Have you taken the back off it and examined the little wheels inside? They fill up with rubber to the point that the mouse becomes almost impossible to guide. You just need to use your fingernail and scrape the rubber from the 4 wheels (or so) that cause it to rotate. Afterwards, smooth sailing. I have to do this every now and then when it become sluggish.

Regarding the “we” you mentioned. It is just a common expression of mine referring to people in general (including me when I first began to pray), causing a person to scratch their proverbial head as if to say, “Have I missed something? Why can’t I hear God speak to me?” I intended no reference to anyone in particular using that catch word.

As you no doubt have read in St. Teresa’s works, she often mentioned that she needed the help of a book to keep her mind from drifting, and to recollect her thoughts. We need to make use of our senses in the natural mode of growth, which is to read spiritual works and scripture, pondering slowly, and allowing God to “put His finger” on a passage that will jump out and “grab us.” It is there that the colloquy with Him begins.

Example: As we turn over this thought in His presence, we become convinced that He is probably speaking His desire to us. We continue meditating and turning the matter over to Him for further insight, and finally form a resolve to do or not do what God seems to be suggesting to our thoughts. Very often at this point, there can be a melting of the heart, together with a strong conviction and deep inner peace. The “nursing” and rejoicing that I spoke about with the lamb above. This strengthens us to accomplish what we feel God is calling us to do.

As we read in Mark Ch. 4 about the importance of how we hear in order to bring the seed of inspiration to bear fruit, Jesus tells us in verse 13, “Do you not know this parable? How then will you understand all the parables?” If we receive His words with great joy and delight, and then allow the cares of the world to overcome us and choke the inspiration, how can it grow to bear fruit?

I realize many people have known God speaking to their hearts, but fail to recognize it as true inspiration because they think guidance must come in an audible voice or such, simply because they have heard so many people speak in the manner you outlined. So sad.

Maybe you can explain what you disagree with from my post? I’m not understanding you, and perhaps I need to be more clear.

http://forum.catholic.com/images/smilies/smile.gif Carole
 
Dear Barb,

But, whether they be of this kind or of that, it is good for the soul to desire to understand nothing, save God alone, through faith, in hope.
  • And if anyone makes the objection that to reject these things, if they are good, appears to be pride, I reply that it is not so, but that it is prudent humility to profit by them in the best way, as has been said, and to be guided by that which is safest."
    in other words, to profit by growth in virtue alone. **
I truly agree with St. John’s words – he is a wonderful master and wise guide! He has said similar words throughout his writings, but he is primarily writing about supernatural experiences. Once again, I was not referring to the simple practice of trying to listen to God in prayer and hear His inspirations, as a supernatural occurrence (like locutions). It is very normal and so scripturally true that God does guide us. We are trying in this thread, I believe, to learn how a normal everyday person senses God speaking interiorly to one’s heart.

🙂 Carole
 
Me again, Barb . . .

St. John of the Cross:
******“I reply that it is not so, but that it is prudent humility to profit by them in the best way, as has been said, and to be guided by that which is safest.” ******


Barb:
in other words, to profit by growth in virtue alone
**. *

Your interpretation of St. John is really your own conclusion, not what St. John has written. Re-read his words in the same chapter 13:8 (Bk. III), and you will see a much different tone whereby he does not utterly reject these apprehensions.
"Only for the sake of moving the spirit to love
should the soul at times recall the images and apprehensions which produced love. --snip-- These apprehensions produce, almost as often as remembered, divine effects of love, sweetness, light, etc., because God impressed them for this reason. This is consequently a great grace, for the person upon whom God bestows it, possesses within himself a mine of blessings."

This is to profit in the “best way” as he taught us. Herein is the only authentic and safe way in which our Saint authorizes using the memory to recall these apprehensions. But few are able to do so without pride, and so it is best to note the movement of the heart, as to whether it is moved solely by love, and is renewed by love whenever they are recalled.

🙂 Carole
 
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Joysong:
Hi Barb,

First, some technical help with your mouse. Have you taken the back off it and examined the little wheels inside? They fill up with rubber to the point that the mouse becomes almost impossible to guide. You just need to use your fingernail and scrape the rubber from the 4 wheels (or so) that cause it to rotate. Afterwards, smooth sailing. I have to do this every now and then when it become sluggish.

I have had to erase a large part of Carole’'s Post here…the computer tells me my Post is too long. Please refer to Carole’s Post for her thoughts in full.

Example: As we turn over this thought in His presence, we become convinced that He is probably speaking His desire to us.
Maybe you can explain what you disagree with from my post? I’m not understanding you, and perhaps I need to be more clear.

http://forum.catholic.com/images/smilies/smile.gif Carole
Hi there again Carole…

First to this troublesome mouse here…it is a cordless mouse and I suspect that both the keyboard and mouse have just had it!..need replacing. But a friend of mine who has considerble expertise with computers will call Tuesday and see what he can do. The cursor at times just does its own thing and my keyboard tends to lock too! At times I have to reboot in quite close time spans… it is all most annoying and as I said 5 minutes work becomes 20 mins. or more. But I shall see what unfolds on Tuesday as i have a mouse on a cord connection that my friend may be able to install on this computer. Other than that…funds available and I would replace the keyboard and the mouse!

There ar e many ways inspiration can come to us … a sentence from a book…something somebody says … etc. etc. etc. I think the criteria to be applied is that if it inspires us to goodness and good works then we can be assured it was from The Holy Spirit who indeed moves where He will and uses indeed what he will to inspire us. For all goodness comes from God.

True locutions or hearing the voice of Jesus are rare and both St. Teresa and St. John advise caution on the matter. If anything to err on the side of caution. Rather to invest in the goodness that such locutions inspire rather than get involved in what exactly is happening. In fact to have no concern about it at all.

I must admit that I have heard homilies on listening to God in Prayer without any qualification of what exactly one should listen to… the implication is with ‘listening’ that one does or should hear a ‘something’…which of course is not the case. Or I dont think it is the case. Personally my listening is to Silence … and the movements of my heart in that Silence … movements which are those of Praise or Thanksgiving, Petition or perhaps some other good work. And Praise, Thanksgivine and Petitionary movements are works of goodness as it were. At times I am merrly enfolded into the Silence and time just passes in peace and quiet joy. To expreience peace and joy are good and thus from God.

At times Prayer time can be full of distractions or even aridity…one does not feel at all like being at Prayer…a book can help…but at times one reads a page with no idea of what one read and one’s mind has been all over the place. This type of Prayer is most difficult. But the Holy Spirit in goodness is with us in that we really do want to pray but cannot. And tis said that often when we feel God most distant from us, indeed He is at his closest. The goodness in this type of Prayer is in our desire, intention and even our moanings to God about our state of bein g able to pray. What in fact we may mean is that we desire God’s consolations and not the God of consolations…as the Cloud of UNknowing so cleverly and truthfully put it!!!

But if I reflect on homilies I have heard and with children in the congregation, I can well understand their confusion . Also as I said, I seem to hear more and more nowadays statements like “and Jesus said to me last night at Prayer…” and I cant help but wonder of what they speak.

I cant answer your Post in any detail until I get something done about this mouse. So hopefully I will be able to address the issue as it deserves after Tuesday. Monday morning here now.

At time the curser just moves quickly out of control and will erase blocks of typing. Thanks for the reply Carole…and I will give it more attention once I hav e my technical problems…well hopefully…back into control.

Regards Barb
 
Its me again…and I have no wish to dominate this thread…and yet one hopes that something one has to say may be of some value to someone. Or give someone else the clue to say something better and/or of far more importance and relevance. Thus one hopes!

I exceeded the 20 min. edit time and again due to this wretched mouse … but then God has his reasons who cares about a hair falling from our head! So my edit I put here in a new Post.

St. John and St. Teresa both advise to concentrate on the fruits of any spiritual experience at all…this reflects what Jesus said “by their fruits you will know them”. By the fruits of our spiritual experiences they come from God either directly or indirectly if they increase love. Jesus has also told us " how can you love God whom you cannot see, if you do not love your neighbour whom you can" Hence love of God can be measured by how much we love others. This refelcts the teach of St. Teresa that the surerst and safest way to Union of the soul with God is through love of neighbour, reflecting the words of Jesus I quoted. Both the great Carmelite Saints advocate that we be not so concerned to understand the experience (focus on it) as the results or fruits of the exper ience and to focus attention and energy there. St. Paul too had much to say about extra ordinary gifts…but stresses that the greatest gift we can aspire to is love…an increase of love…or the fruits of the experience.

Of course we should be grateful abundantly for anything that increases love and goodness…for it has come feely from God either in a direct (possibly extra ordinary) or indirect manner. We are the sinners who fall daily 70 times 7. And as Jesus stated " only God is Good’ . Hence nothing good comes from us, but from God directly or indirectly … but never to put focus on discerning direct or indirect!!! only on the results of whatever! The fruits of God also produce much humility!!! Jesus has also said “do not let your piety show!”

Barb
Bethany
 
Hi Barb,
But if I reflect on homilies I have heard and with children in the congregation, I can well understand their confusion . Also as I said, I seem to hear more and more nowadays statements like “and Jesus said to me last night at Prayer…” and I can’t help but wonder of what they speak.
Sometimes, Barb, I get annoyed with this type of phrasing, for it misleads the listener; whereas in reality, the very ones who use it are meaning, “I understood this from Jesus last night as I prayed.” So rather than get my feathers ruffled or call them on it, I just let it go as their manner of expression. I suppose it makes them feel important as they attempt to impress others that they are very spiritual. None of us are exempt from these little slips into spiritual pride or any other spiritual misstep relating to the capital sins, as you know from reading St. John of the Cross. These are slips that are common to “proficients” as he calls them, and in no way demeans their spiritual stature.

This is a wonderful topic to explore for the benefit of those eager hearts who really want to listen to God, but get befuddled by this casual language. Let’s pray that God open our minds and hearts to understand Him better.

I was really struck by today’s gospel at mass, about Jesus’s good pleasure in revealing these things to little ones. Our spirits must become childlike in trust, just as St. Therese taught. Isn’t it interesting that from the age of three, she never had a problem coming to God or understanding His ways?

http://forum.catholic.com/images/smilies/smile.gif Carole

P.S. I was posting this while you submitted your last message, so I did not see it until I finished typing. So I quickly jumped in while the “edit” function was still available.

What you said is really helpful, but probably off topic somewhat, for these things will not normally be experienced by those who are asking the topic question began by Elzee - how do I know if it is God or my own brain?
 
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Elzee:
My child asked me the other day - “'how do I know if when I’m praying and trying to listen to God, that it’s God speaking to me, or if it’s just my brain telling me things on its own?” I didn’t know how to answer this - perhaps an indication that I still have a long way to go in my prayer life.

Can anyone help me? How do you recognize the voice of God when you pray?
First of all, God speaks through His Word. Read the bible starting from the gospel. Slowly try to read the old testament, then Paul’s letters. Ask your heavenly Father for the Holy Spirit to quide you a long the way. Sing songs of Praise for Him Who is worthy to be praised.

Then, slowly you will learn that God will speak to you through His Word that comes alive, calling you. Notice verses that says of God’s faithfulness and the greatness of His Love. His plan and His promises and the fulfilments. His one covenant and The Fulfilment. Believe in the good news Jesus brings.

Then there will come the time when you can hear Him speaks to you (not with physical ear, although sometimes He could literally speaks to our physical ear as well) day by day. You hear Him in the most inner self, the most humble place in your heart, where He has been waiting for you to listen to Him for so long.

God bless
 
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Joysong:
Hi Barb,

Sometimes, Barb, I get annoyed with this type of phrasing, for it misleads the listener; whereas in reality, the very ones who use it are meaning, “I understood this from Jesus last night as I prayed.” So rather than get my feathers ruffled or call them on it, I just let it go as their manner of expression. I suppose it makes them feel important as they attempt to impress others that they are very spiritual. None of us are exempt from these little slips into spiritual pride or any other spiritual misstep relating to the capital sins, as you know from reading St. John of the Cross. These are slips that are common to “proficients” as he calls them, and in no way demeans their spiritual stature.

This is a wonderful topic to explore for the benefit of those eager hearts who really want to listen to God, but get befuddled by this casual language. Let’s pray that God open our minds and hearts to understand Him better.

I was really struck by today’s gospel at mass, about Jesus’s good pleasure in revealing these things to little ones. Our spirits must become childlike in trust, just as St. Therese taught. Isn’t it interesting that from the age of three, she never had a problem coming to God or understanding His ways?

http://forum.catholic.com/images/smilies/smile.gif Carole

P.S. I was posting this while you submitted your last message, so I did not see it until I finished typing. So I quickly jumped in while the “edit” function was still available.

What you said is really helpful, but probably off topic somewhat, for these things will not normally be experienced by those who are asking the topic question began by Elzee - how do I know if it is God or my own brain?
Hi Joysong…I may have misunderstood Elzee…I thought her child may be hearing a voice…as children can…but in reality her own brain. By explaining how we could perhaps know what we were hearing and of far more important its results…Elzee may be able to discern what to say to her child. My next post is actually to Elzee asking if the Posts in this thread have been helpful to here and not at all necessarily the ones from me … I have long been concerned about what conclusions children and young adults are coming to by what is said in Homilies at times … not all children go out for Instruction during the readings and homily at Sunday Mass…

I have been wondering too if Elzee has found her answers to her child and if not if she has any questions that contributors may be able to help her with…

Regards Barb
 
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Elzee:
My child asked me the other day - “'how do I know if when I’m praying and trying to listen to God, that it’s God speaking to me, or if it’s just my brain telling me things on its own?” I didn’t know how to answer this - perhaps an indication that I still have a long way to go in my prayer life.

Can anyone help me? How do you recognize the voice of God when you pray?
Hi there Elzee…I am wondering as this thread you started has unfolded whether you have found what to say to your child?

Whether you have any questions that contributors to this thread (and not at all necessarily me!..far more knowledgeable than I have contributed…) may be able to answer for you…

Regards Barb
Bethany Sth Aust
Mond. 4.7.05 l.49pm
Happy Fourth of July to all in USA

ps…Carole…any speculation you and I may have on St. Teresa or St. John may be able to take place by PrivateMessage…?..if we wish to continue such discussion.
 
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