How do I learn Latin?

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scylla said:
For all my brothers in the faith who do not know any Latin and are intimidated by it, where would they go to learn Latin?
I know very little and have no resources in my parish. (I live in SoCal where a little more dissent than usual goes on)

I know there is a bunch of hostility out there primarily because people are scared or worried of not understanding Latin or being made fun of because they do not know any or very little.

I know most parishes do not have any classes to learn the language of the Church and I wouldn’t ask to have a class made up for it as they would kick me out of participating in parish activities. (there is that much hostility toward Latin in my parish it is almost comical)

So please link resources, thank you.
God Bless
Scylla
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Another link I found helpful…
latin-mass-society.org/simplicissimus/index.htm
 
Get the Latina Christiana I material from this site:

adoremusbooks.com/index.asp?PageAction=PRODSEARCH&txtSearch=latina+christiana&btnSearch=GO&Page=1

What’s great about it is that it is ecclesiastical Latin. Most of the other material out there is classical Latin. Also, the CDs and DVDs are absolutely essential. Learning strictly from a book is a dead-end.

I am studying Latina Christiana I right now, and there is a Yahoo Group set up with other users to help each other.

[Edited by Moderator]
 
scylla said:
For all my brothers in the faith who do not know any Latin and are intimidated by it, where would they go to learn Latin?
I know very little and have no resources in my parish. (I live in SoCal where a little more dissent than usual goes on)

I know there is a bunch of hostility out there primarily because people are scared or worried of not understanding Latin or being made fun of because they do not know any or very little.

I know most parishes do not have any classes to learn the language of the Church and I wouldn’t ask to have a class made up for it as they would kick me out of participating in parish activities. (there is that much hostility toward Latin in my parish it is almost comical)

So please link resources, thank you.
God Bless
Scylla
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You can learn Latin by signing up for a class at a local community college if you have the time. However, the Latin taught there is different from “Church Latin”.
 
What the OP needs to look for is medieval Latin but I think he probably needs the responses for the Mass and the basic prayers. All the links here will take him there - this is a very good medieval Latin vocabulary and grammar:
[chass.utoronto.ca/medieval/web-content/pages/lat(name removed by moderator)rog/LatAids.html](http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/medieval/web-content/pages/lat(name removed by moderator)rog/LatAids.html)
 
Catholig said:
I like the old english (I’m transcribing & formating the 1582 Douai-Rheims NT so that it can work on Vulsearch), however I don’t understand how the fact that english is an “evolving language” matters when considering whether or not the Holy Mass should be celebrated in it. I mean it isn’t evolving so fast that we’d notice any significant changes in it - and I don’t think too many of our Masses will be recorded for posterity where meanings can be confused (although I think anyone interested in such possible recordings would take the time to figure out what the words meant in our time, donchyathink?) .
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But the meanings do change, even if you perhaps don’t notice them in your lifetime. The understanding of our faith cannot change from generation to generation even slightly. Solid Catholicism doesn’t evolve into anything. The Nicene Creed, for example. Since the council of Nicea, it hadn’t changed. But now it’s WE believe instead of I believe? Do you realize how much damage that has caused already? At this rate, if we keep changing things, imagine what the rest of the Creed would be even 200 years from now. And that’s just the Creed. We almost lost the concept of the Mass being a Sacrifice, but now it’s ok to risk other doctrine just so for convenience sake? Each language cannot have its own faith, plain and simple. The Latin texts are official and recorded.
 
Margita said:
My point was that apparently some of us still believe what More argued in the 16th century: that it is vain curiosity to pry into what is in Latin (the Bible), and that as a previous poster (Malcolm McLean) said, translating certain things out of Latin into English is dangerous. It is only dangerous if translated with a sinful intent. And, contrary to what some posts implied here, there is nothing wrong in learning Latin in order to understand every word at a Latin mass, just as we understand the words of an English mass.
My quote from More was meant to be ironic, to show that the “don’t translate”-view is 500 years old, and not necessarily adequate for our age.
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The bishop Aelfric translated Genesis into Old English at the command of King Alfred. However he wrote to Alfred trying to dissuade him from the idea, because Jacob has four wives, and he was worried that people would want to return to polygamy.

The claim of no English translations before the Reformation is wrong, but there has been a consistent voice against the use of the vernacular in religious worship and texts. Your attitude seems to be that More’s view loses its validity because of the passage of time. That seems to be a rather strange way of assessing an argument. Surely if Aelfric in 880 or so, More in 1520 and Malcolm in 2007 all say the same thing it would imply that there might be something to it.
 
How did I learn liturgical Latin? Well, first I sang in the children’s choir where we learned plainsong in Latin. The good sisters taught us to pronounce the Latin and told us what the words meant. Young children are sponges when it comes to learning new languages.

After I made my First Communion, my mother dilligently used her index finger in my missal in time with the priest. At the end of third grade, I became an altar boy. Father explained in detail our roles, how to pronounce Latin, the rubrics, etc. I was an altar boy all the way into my senior year in high school until I towered over Father and resigned.

Funny thing about learning Spanish in high school. So many of the words were familiar. My brother and sister took French…they reported the same thing.

Fæder ure,
ðu ðe eart on heofenum,
si ðin nama gehalgod;
to-becume ðin rice;
geweorþe ðin willa on eorðan swa swa on heofenum.
Urne ge dæghwamlican hlaf syle us to-deag,
and forgyf us ure gyltas
swa swa we forgifaþ urum gyltendum,
ane ne gelæde ðu us on costnunge, ac alys us of yfle.
Amen.

It’s off-topic but don’t even get me started about translations of Latin into Old English. If you can tell me what the above passage is, Latin will be no problem.
 
BobP123 said:
But the meanings do change, even if you perhaps don’t notice them in your lifetime. The understanding of our faith cannot change from generation to generation even slightly. Solid Catholicism doesn’t evolve into anything. The Nicene Creed, for example. Since the council of Nicea, it hadn’t changed. But now it’s WE believe instead of I believe? Do you realize how much damage that has caused already? At this rate, if we keep changing things, imagine what the rest of the Creed would be even 200 years from now. And that’s just the Creed. We almost lost the concept of the Mass being a Sacrifice, but now it’s ok to risk other doctrine just so for convenience sake? Each language cannot have its own faith, plain and simple. The Latin texts are official and recorded.
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Bob,

You do make a good argument, however I still think that the magisterium has the right to change the liturgy - including the creation of the Novus Ordo. And I don’t think that there will be a differen’t faith for each language if we use the N.O. correctly (according to the Latin in which it was written).

As for substituting We for I I don’t really see the theological impact. That isn’t to say that I think it is fine - I don’t - it is simply saying that that doesn’t cause doubt to creep into my heart concerning the Trinity, Jesus Our Lord, God being the creator, etc.

I do feel that some damage can be done by the feminization of the Credo so it will be “gender neutral” but to the best of my knowledge this is an abuse, & if the N.O. were followed to the letter this wouldn’t be a problem.

Catholig
 
brotherhrolf said:
It’s off-topic but don’t even get me started about translations of Latin into Old English. If you can tell me what the above passage is, Latin will be no problem.
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I hope it is not too far off-topic to ask: Is translating Latin into Olde English remarkably different from translating other languages (including modern English) into it?

tee
Who “seconds” the recommendation of the thread [thread=121562]LATIN: Language Study Resources[/thread] 😉
 
tee_eff_em said:
I hope it is not too far off-topic to ask: Is translating Latin into Olde English remarkably different from translating other languages (including modern English) into it?
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We don’t really have enough old English to translate reliably into it, though we have enough to read it well enough. Translating between modern English and Old English presents some unique difficulties, because often the Old English word will remain as a slightly archaic or different word in English. For instance it is tempting to keep the word “guilt” in the Our Father, but really it must be “sins”. Actually I suspect it meant “debt”, from gilt or gold.

There is also an interesting point with hlaf, or “bread”, which gives us modern English “loaf”. The word “Lord” derives from “hlaford”, or “bread-giver”. Thus there is a Christian concept built into the pagan AngloSaxon that doesn’t appear in the Latin.

But no. For a native Old English speaker, translating to an from Lating wouldn’t have been distinguished in any way from translating between any two language chosen at random.

Then of course the angels speak English (obviously).
 
Thank you all, I am looking at the links, and some are very helpful.

God Bless
Scylla
 
Catholig said:
Bob,
As for substituting We for I I don’t really see the theological impact. That isn’t to say that I think it is fine - I don’t - it is simply saying that that doesn’t cause doubt to creep into my heart concerning the Trinity, Jesus Our Lord, God being the creator, etc.
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Well, it was only an example. Oh, did I mention the ICEL rewrite of the consecration? 😃
 
Malcolm_McLean said:
“We believe” is groupthink.
However you are right, one word does not by itself change very much.
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But the order that you write those words in can change meaning, especially in English. Not to mention that today one can better get away with poor grammar in English (between you and I, for example) than in Latin. In Latin endings dictate subject, object, and modifiers. And where the words are placed in the sentence determines emphasis (or lack of emphasis) of those words. Latin comes with its own mindset and organization of thought.

But you knew that. 🙂
 
I took Latin as my 4 years of foreign language in High School. (I went to a public high school).

While in high school I had bought a Latin-to-English/English-to-Latin Dictionary. I also bought the book “201 Latin Verbs” which helped me. (And still does time to time)

I did an Amazon search for the dictionary I have:
See link: amazon.com/Cassells-Latin-Dictionary-Latin-English-English-Latin/dp/0025225804

When looking for the dictionary I noticed the books:
  1. “Teach Yourself Latin Complete Course”
  2. “Latin for Dummies”
This is the first I’ve seen these titles. They might be helpful.
 
Looking through the links I find some good lessons but what is really helpful for me is finding this type of lesson.
Word ----> Translation
Like this
Word Part of Speech Meaning

**amen *v. a Hebrew word meaning *“So be it!”
**ave **inter. Hail!
**benedictus, -a, um **adj. blest
**Deus, -i n. God, (m.)
**Dominus, -i n. the Lord, (m.)
**et **conj. and
**fructus, -us n. fruit, **(m.)
**gratia, -ae **n. grace (sing.); thanks (pl.), (f.)
**hora, -ae n. an hour, **(f.)
**Iesus, -u n. Jesus, (m.)
**in **prep. in
**lingua, -ae **n. a tongue or language, (f.)
**Maria, -ae n. Mary, (f.)
**mater, -tris n. a mother, (f.)
**mors, -tis n. death, (f.)
**mulier, -eris n. a woman, (f.)
**nos, nobis **pron. us
**noster, -tra, -trum **adj. our
**nunc **adv. now
**obiectus, -a, -um **adj. thrown against; *subst. *an object
**ora **v. Pray!

I have had good experiences learning Japanese this way yet I lost my Japanese book that worked by memorization so I am on the lookout for another.
If anyone knows of any lessons\websites that are primarily structured as above feel free to let me know. Or if you are in possession of a document or electronic book structured as above I would appreciate a reply or a PM.

Thank you all,
Scylla

(the prayers people linked are extremely useful [the old thread too] and I have made copies of those to my ebook already, now I am just looking for vocabulary.)
PS…Maybe this shouldn’t be in the traditional Catholic group, as all Catholics are called to learn Latin. according to Vatican II, at least a little bit. Even Pope Benedict suggests it.
 
Go to catholic on line, in the latin section, Robert has a good course just like that called “Latin text” . Latin grammar is for beginners. Ana
 
Here are excellent resources:
It is great you want to learn Latin. Read what the Baltimore Catechism says about Latin:
Q. 566. Why does the Church use the Latin language instead of the national language of its children?
A. The Church uses the Latin language instead of the national language of its children:
    • To avoid the danger of changing any part of its teaching in using different languages;
    • That all its rulers may be perfectly united and understood in their communications;
    • To show that the Church is not an institute of any particular nation, but the guide of all nations.
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