How do I prove Jesus died on the cross using scripture?

[Lost_and_Found_1]

But isn’t the Greek word for crucifiy, Stauroo? And wouldn’t that imply cross?

 

[patrick457]

But isn’t the Greek word for crucifiy, Stauroo? And wouldn’t that imply cross?

A little review. Stauros comes from the verb ἵστημι (histēmi ‘straighten up, stand’), which in turn comes from the Indo-European root *stā- ‘to stand, place; upright pole’ (cognate with Icelandic staur ‘a stake, pole’, English stour ‘stake, pole’; cf. staff). It originally meant an upright stake or a piece of paling in earlier Greek (Homeric and classical Greek). However, in Koine Greek, stauros also became synonymous with the Latin crux, which refers to the gibbet where a criminal is hanged, anything from a simple stake (a tree) to pieces of timber joined together at an angle. One idea has it (could be wrong though) that the word crux properly refers only to an upright stake, but is used as a metonymy for the gibbet as a whole (kind of like how the horizontal beam - patibulum - was also at times used to refer to the whole device).

 

[mackbrislawn]

Jehovah Witnesses claim Jesus did not die on the Cross but a
Pole. How can I prove Christ died on the Cross using scripture?

This claim that Jesus did not die on a cross-shaped instrument is an old gimmick of the Witnesses. I call it a “wedge doctrine.” Something simple to understand that wedges, or pries a prospective convert from his previous religion. Something like, “Wow, Jesus did not die on a cross like all of the churches say? Gee, these Witnesses are really smart, I had better join them because they know so much!”

That Jesus died on a cross shaped instrument isn’t in scripture itself so much as it is in tradition. Tradition attests to the shape of Jesus’ execution instrument.

This illustrates a danger of relying on scripture alone–the Witnesses here have taken the notion of sola scriptura to a logical conclusion: since stauros can be translated stake, scripture alone cannot show that Jesus died on a cross. We must rely on tradition to tell us that. Catholic tradition has it that Jesus died on a cross, a tradition which most Protestants have not thought of denying but the Witnesses have.

 

[panevino]

Passover - strike the lintel and the door posts. (Exo 12:21-23)
Now superimpose a cross.
Some one on these forums pointed me to this a few months ago.

Passover lamb - I don’t know where , Talmud/midrash? But somewhere I understand the roasting of the Passover lamb is described with 2 steaks length and breadth (ie cross)

 

[patrick457]

Passover lamb - I don’t know where , Talmud/midrash? But somewhere I understand the roasting of the Passover lamb is described with 2 steaks length and breadth (ie cross)

That was Justin Martyr.

The mystery, then, of the lamb which God enjoined to be sacrificed as the passover, was a type of Christ; with whose blood, in proportion to their faith in Him, they anoint their houses, i.e., themselves, who believe on Him. For that the creation which God created—to wit, Adam—was a house for the spirit which proceeded from God, you all can understand. And that this injunction was temporary, I prove thus. God does not permit the lamb of the passover to be sacrificed in any other place than where His name was named; knowing that the days will come, after the suffering of Christ, when even the place in Jerusalem shall be given over to your enemies, and all the offerings, in short, shall cease; and that lamb which was commanded to be wholly roasted was a symbol of the suffering of the cross which Christ would undergo. For the lamb, which is roasted, is roasted and dressed up in the form of the cross. For one spit is transfixed right through from the lower parts up to the head, and one across the back, to which are attached the legs of the lamb.

The funny thing is, some (like Joachim Jeremias) thought that Justin was actually describing the Samaritan method of roasting Passover lambs. (He was a native of Flavia Neapolis - modern Nablus - in the Samaritan heartland.) The Samaritan way of roasting lambs nowadays involves a small platform to the lower end of the long spit that prevents the sheep from sliding off, although Justin’s description presupposes that the spit holding the legs be affixed to the upper part. Also, he says that the lamb “is transfixed right through from the lower parts up to the head,” although now it is done in the opposite direction, from the mouth to the buttocks (cf. Mishna, Pesachim 7:1). Still, a writer witnessing a Samaritan Passover celebration in 1918 reported that the lambs were “crucified on rough wooden crosses, head downwards, with the hind legs on the arms of the crosses.” (Samaritans now cut off the right foreleg of the sheep as the priests’ share, cf. Deuteronomy 18:3.) However, this idea is not without its detractors.

 

[patrick457]

This claim that Jesus did not die on a cross-shaped instrument is an old gimmick of the Witnesses. I call it a “wedge doctrine.” Something simple to understand that wedges, or pries a prospective convert from his previous religion. Something like, “Wow, Jesus did not die on a cross like all of the churches say? Gee, these Witnesses are really smart, I had better join them because they know so much!”

That Jesus died on a cross shaped instrument isn’t in scripture itself so much as it is in tradition. Tradition attests to the shape of Jesus’ execution instrument.

This illustrates a danger of relying on scripture alone–the Witnesses here have taken the notion of sola scriptura to a logical conclusion: since stauros can be translated stake, scripture alone cannot show that Jesus died on a cross. We must rely on tradition to tell us that. Catholic tradition has it that Jesus died on a cross, a tradition which most Protestants have not thought of denying but the Witnesses have.

Actually the “Jesus died on a stake” idea is not original to the Witnesses, although they capitalized on it. Before they even came on the scene there were already a number of people who contested the traditional idea that Jesus died on a T- or †-shaped cross, but instead died on a crux simplex (‘simple cross’; i.e. a vertical stake), like Henry Dana Ward (Episcopal; The History of the Cross, 1871), W. E. Vine (Plymouth Brethren; Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, 1940) and E. W. Bullinger (Anglican; The Companion Bible, 1922). Most of them use as evidence the fact that stauros originally meant simply an upright pale or stake in earlier Greek: all three authors notably purport that the cross as we know it today was originally a pagan import, you know, the old story about how paganism supposedly infiltrated and corrupted Christianity. And this is probably what gave the idea appeal to the JWs, who had heretofore assumed the traditional idea.

 

[panevino]

Even better is the clear parallel of the doorposts and lintel marked with the hyssop and paschal lamb’s blood. Notice, if you will, the sign that it forms.
Exodus 12: 22] Take a bunch of hyssop and dip it in the blood which is in the basin, and touch the lintel and the two doorposts with the blood which is in the basin; and none of you shall go out of the door of his house until the morning.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/lintel.gif

 

[LatinCatholic1]

Does anybody have any quotes on the Early Church Fathers that talks about Jesus Crucified?

 

[Monte1945]

My faith is that he was crucified. I’m asking what scriptures I can use to show he was crucified

Go to:

biblegateway.com/

It is a online bible… it has a whole list of bibles for you to choose from…

You can search by "keyword’ any thing in the bible…

and it will give you every line in the bible of the word you
are searching for…

I would suggest searching for: "Nail, or Nailed…

It is a perfect means to find what you are seeking… from within Scriptures…

 

[panevino]

Does anybody have any quotes on the Early Church Fathers that talks about Jesus Crucified?

See post #25 for justin martyr and letter of Ignatius to Ephesians ch9.

The Letter of Saint Polycarp to the Philippians
Ch7-…and whosoever does not confess the testimony of the cross "is of the devil…

Justin martyr 1st apology ch 35-…testifying the power of the cross, which when crucified he took upon his shoulders, as will be shown more clearly as the argument proceeds. Again the same prophet Isaiah, inspired by the prophetic Spirit, said: "I have stretched out my hands over a disobedient and contradicting people…