How do I prove objective morality?

[Eric_Hyom]

But we live in an imperfect world.

I fully agree with you, but there can still be an objective morality even if people choose not to live by it.

It’s all about compromise.

I would say it is more about everyone willingly obeying just laws. The law should not be compromised.

There are no easy answers.

I would suggest the answers are easy, everyone should willingly obey the law. Don’t kill, cheat, steal, covet your neighbours wife etc. In other words, love your neighbour as you love yourself.

And if my neighbour has forced himself on my wife then the operative word will be: retribution.

I listened to Glen Fielder tell his story, he had been signed up to play football with Leighton Orient, alongside David Beckham. He had an exciting life ahead of him, but he was stabbed in the back. He has now been paralysed from the waist down for the last 27 years. They caught the man who did this, he served four years in prison, he was then able to walk out of prison on his own two feet, and justice had been served.

By this time, Glen had learned to drive a disabled taxi, he tracked down his assailant, and then stalked him with the intention of running him over. Glen saw an opportunity to run his attacker down, but something stopped him. He said he came to understand that true justice could never happen. Justice is not that two people should be crippled, rather, it is that neither of them should be crippled. He knew this could never happen, he came to understand that he had to let go of his hatred. If not, he would become worse than his assailant, because his actions would be premeditated.

He said he had to live with two diseases, being crippled, and the greater disease was the hate burning away inside him. Forgiveness and letting go of the hatred was a gradual process, his wheelchair has been a daily reminder of the past injustice.

After we heard his story in Manchester Cathedral, we were asked to say a blessing and we were to keep in mind all the people that had hurt us, and who we should try and forgive. The words sang by Graham Kendrick…

Now may the peace of the Lord be with you,
May the Lord bless you
May the Lord keep you
And may God’s face shine upon you always
And give you peace.

 

[Wozza]

Wozza:

But we live in an imperfect world.

I fully agree with you, but there can still be an objective morality even if people choose not to live by it.

It’s all about compromise.

I would say it is more about everyone willingly obeying just laws. The law should not be compromised.

There are no easy answers.

I would suggest the answers are easy, everyone should willingly obey the law. Don’t kill, cheat, steal, covet your neighbours wife etc. In other words, love your neighbour as you love yourself.

If there is an objective morality and a) we don’t know what it is and b) people don’t want to abide by it, then it is useless. We need a morality that works in the here and now. The neighbour business only works if both parties play ball.

And some laws are considered not just. You can legally have an abortion in many places. So do you agree with that law? Do you thinknit’s just?

I think that what you meant was: Obey the just laws with which I agree.

 

[Buddyroe]

Objective morality is an oxymoron and cannot be proved. The problem lies with the understanding of the word morality because it employs overlapping and sometimes conflicting ideas of right and wrong. There are antiquated understandings of morality and recently contrived understandings as well, culture will decide, we argue among ourselves constantly on this point. …The concept of morality is a horizontal one…

In order to better convey the meanings most often attempted with the word morality one should use definitions from scripture. For example, sinless is defined by God’s authority and is not subjective. We may argue with what activities should be considered sin but we would be arguing with God. …The concept of being sinless is a vertical one…

 

[Eric_Hyom]

If there is an objective morality and a) we don’t know what it is

But we do know what it is, the golden rule, being kind to each other, loving our neighbour as we love ourselves. We don’t have to justify any of these actions.

people don’t want to abide by it, then it is useless.

Of course people do not want to abide by moral laws, because we have to think of the needs of other people first.

And some laws are considered not just. You can legally have an abortion in many places. So do you agree with that law? Do you thinknit’s just?

The just law is marriage for life between a loving male and female and before God. If we could obey this commandment from God, then abortion would not be the big issue it is now.

I think that what you meant was: Obey the just laws with which I agree.

If you look at this from a Christian perception, Jesus said all the law hangs on the greatest commandments.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

But we do know what it is, the golden rule, being kind to each other, loving our neighbour as we love ourselves.

That’s cultural.

 

[Wozza]

Wozza:

If there is an objective morality and a) we don’t know what it is

But we do know what it is, the golden rule, being kind to each other, loving our neighbour as we love ourselves. We don’t have to justify any of these actions.

I think that the Golden Rule is an excellent basis for any system of moral codes. But it’s not objective morality. It is just a rule (the clue is in the name).

For example, if I want to be free to use contraception then I must allow others to do so. A simple example of that rule with which you may not agree.

As I said, the rules you want only appear to be those with which you agree. You are setting the benchmark yourself.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

I think that the Golden Rule is an excellent basis for any system of moral codes. But it’s not objective morality. It is just a rule (the clue is in the name).

I take your point. I guess most countries may write a thousand laws to try and define their interpretation of the golden rule. The greatest commandments seek a higher and more spiritual code of law.

For example, if I want to be free to use contraception then I must allow others to do so. A simple example of that rule with which you may not agree.

On the face of it, if two consenting adults agree to use contraception, then it should be ok. But what if those two adults happen to be your wife and her lover, does that make it ok? The two consenting adults ignore the needs of the husband, children, grandparents and the wider family.

In the UK, by the time a child reaches fifteen, about half of them are not living with both their biological parents. The growing price of free love is crippling families communities and placing a huge burden on the benefit system. Mental health problems are increasing.

The greater moral code that is demanded from the greatest commandments may seem out dated, but they seek what is right for the wider community, as well as individuals.