How do I reconcile this?

[Pat_Payne]

I’d just posted in the World News section about the murder of Steven Sotloff that I’m rapidly nearing the point of wanting genocide against ISIS. I know it’s wrong and that we’re to pray for our enemies, but how do I deal with the severe anger and, yes, hatred I feel for ISIS? There’s a part of me that just wants us here in the US to be done with our restraint and just nuke the areas that ISIS controls until it’s one big sheet of glass. I know in my heart that’s not what God wants or what Jesus would condone, but what do I do? How do I deal with this? How do I not see them the way they see us, as animals fit only to be killed?

I need help, advice and prayers. I don’t want to stoop to their level.

 

[RedFox0456]

Try to remember what the Lord said. “Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”

It hurts. It is painful. And it is not defeat. I pray that our brothers and sisters did not have to endure such hardship or prove so finally the resolve of their faith, but I can take comfort in knowing those people have sacrificed everything for the sake of Truth and God will not forget that.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

How do I not see them the way they see us, as animals fit only to be killed?

The way is to recognize that there is a part of yourself that is capable of deeds as evil as the deeds ISIS has committed. When you see the Father’s will for mercy to cover over your evil, you will see the Father’s will for mercy to cover over their evil.

That said, killing the guilty in order to save the innocent is not wrong. But bombing ISIS would involve killing the innocent in order to kill the guilty – and that is always wrong.

 

[China123]

Ask God for the grace to quell your anger and pray for them. It is so hard. I feel very similar to you.

I had a college prof who told me that the West would never understand these terrorist groups. They do not believe in our “Western ways” of democracy or capitolism. We are a cancer to them. He was a Middle Eastern studies professor who traveled extensively. I just listened to him but now his words come to mind whenever I see these terrorist groups and their hatred.

I have to ask God for grace everyday to pray for these people. I feel bad about that but I am a flawed human. I still pray.

 

[mike52ad]

Your feelings are just that - feelings. They are stirred up by your emotions. Own them, acknowledge them and then ask God to help you with the burden. My mother, God rest her soul, died because the doctor she had cared very little about my mother’s health because she was an employee and did not pay for any services. The services she received were lackluster at best. She died of cancer that spread because this doctor could not be bothered to care. I hated this lady and wished her in the deepest recesses of Hades. When Mom died I went into depression. At the time my drive to work took me past a Catholic church. It is my habit to make the Sign of the Cross when I pass a Catholic Church because I know Jesus is present there in the Blessed Sacrament. One day as I did this God pointed out to me that I was carrying a huge burden in my soul, hate for the woman who killed my mother. I gave that hate up to God, I confessed to him in that car that I could not carry it a minute longer, He lifted it from me and I immediately came out of my depression that had lasted over six months. So for your own health give up your feelings of hate to God, he will carry them for you and restore you to peace.

Finally my dear friend, remember that the victory of Jesus has already been won, the victories of ISIS as great as they seem to be are temporary at best. Remember that “at Jesus’ name every knee must bend and every tongue proclaim to the glory of God the Father, Jesus Christ is Lord!”

 

[porthos11]

Almighty everlasting God, in whose hand are the power and the government of every nation; look to the help of the Christian people, that the heathen nations, who trust in their own fierceness, may be crushed by the power of Thy right arm.

– Collect, Mass for the Defence of the Church.

The Catholic Church has never been above praying that God crush her oppressors.

Pray for the conversion of the individuals, but also for the defeat and destruction of this monstrous group.

 

[randomusername]

ISIS deserve to be crushed swiftly and surely with no chance of a comeback. The West are just too pansyish to act. There is only so many times you can turn the other cheek before you start to bleed and must retaliate.

 

[chefmomster2]

Pray for them constantly! The more we hate someone the more we need to pray for them. It will heal us as surely as it will eventually triumph over this heinous evil.

 

[Reclaim]

The way is to recognize that there is a part of yourself that is capable of deeds as evil as the deeds ISIS has committed. When you see the Father’s will for mercy to cover over your evil, you will see the Father’s will for mercy to cover over their evil.

That said, killing the guilty in order to save the innocent is not wrong. But bombing ISIS would involve killing the innocent in order to kill the guilty – and that is always wrong.

That is not quite correct. We may not purposefully kill the innocent, but we do not have to hold off from any action that might. As to the OP, I would say it is good to feel anger. you would not be human if you did not, and not all anger is sinful.

Here is a good read on “just war” :

catholic.com/documents/just-war-doctrine

 

[Reclaim]

The Feast of Our Lady of Victory/Our Lady of the Rosary arose after Pope St. Pius V urged Christians to pray the rosary for Christian forces to defeat the Muslims at the Battle of Lepanto. Read more here:

ewtn.com/library/mary/olislam.htm

 

[St_Francis]

I’d just posted in the World News section about the murder of Steven Sotloff that I’m rapidly nearing the point of wanting genocide against ISIS. I know it’s wrong and that we’re to pray for our enemies, but how do I deal with the severe anger and, yes, hatred I feel for ISIS? There’s a part of me that just wants us here in the US to be done with our restraint and just nuke the areas that ISIS controls until it’s one big sheet of glass. I know in my heart that’s not what God wants or what Jesus would condone, but what do I do? How do I deal with this? How do I not see them the way they see us, as animals fit only to be killed?

I need help, advice and prayers. I don’t want to stoop to their level.

Oh, wow, just in time! Last night as I prayed the Rosary I thought of the last half of the Magnificat. It says God will smite the proud, etc., and I hadn’t really ever understood that altho it’s in a lot of places in the Bible.

Abd I realized that this means *we do not have to do anything about bad guys! *(Unless of course it is part of the duties of our state in life like being a soldier.)

This is how I explained it to my children: there’s a large pipeline from Heaven to here, and that’s how grace gets to us. Unfortunately, this pipe gets clogged up with sin, so the channel for grace narrows.

Prayer unclogs the pipeline so more of God’s grace can come through.

So, count your blessings–there but for the grace of God go I–and pray a lot! If possible, go to daily Mass once or twice or more per week. Start mental prayer. Fast or perform other acts of mortification. Skip lunch and give the money to someone in need.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

That is not quite correct. We may not purposefully kill the innocent, but we do not have to hold off from any action that might. As to the OP, I would say it is good to feel anger. you would not be human if you did not, and not all anger is sinful.

Here is a good read on “just war” :

catholic.com/documents/just-war-doctrine

Bombing a place with human shields is not an action that “might” kill innocents. It is an action with the known consequence of killing innocents that would not otherwise be killed. It is VERY hard to explain why this is not using the lives of the innocents as a tool with which to save the lives of others. I understand the reasons one might try to make such an argument, but I don’t agree with them.

You don’t fight fire with fire, if you’re a Christian. If the enemy allows the end to justify the means, we cannot imitate the enemy.

 

[St_Francis]

Bombing a place with human shields is not an action that “might” kill innocents. It is an action with the known consequence of killing innocents that would not otherwise be killed. It is VERY hard to explain why this is not using the lives of the innocents as a tool with which to save the lives of others. I understand the reasons one might try to make such an argument, but I don’t agree with them.

You don’t fight fire with fire, if you’re a Christian. If the enemy allows the end to justify the means, we cannot imitate the enemy.

This falls under the principle of double effect. It is why we can remove a cancerous uterus from a pregnant woman, altho we know that the unbirn baby will die as a consequence.

In war, or a war-like situation, sometimes certain military measures must be taken. The foreseen deaths of civilians are not intended but they are foreseen. If the danger posed by the enemy situation is proportional to the foreseen loss of civilians, then it is a moral act. If the danger posed is too small, proportionately, then it would be immoral.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

This falls under the principle of double effect. It is why we can remove a cancerous uterus from a pregnant woman, altho we know that the unbirn baby will die as a consequence.

In war, or a war-like situation, sometimes certain military measures must be taken. The foreseen deaths of civilians are not intended but they are foreseen. If the danger posed by the enemy situation is proportional to the foreseen loss of civilians, then it is a moral act. If the danger posed is too small, proportionately, then it would be immoral.

No, this is not true. If you 100% know you are bombing innocents, it is absolutely impermissible to bomb. The principle of double effect does not apply. Here is the contrast:

BOMBING SITUATION

The end = ending a war (i.e. saving lives)
The means = a bomb which directly (though unintentionally) causes death to innocents

ECTOPIC PREGNANCY

The end = saving a life
The means = a life-saving operation that indirectly causes death to an innocent who is already dying

The operation is the type of thing that saves lives, even if (in this case) it accidentally shortens a life. But bombing is not intrinsically a life-saving activity; quite the opposite.

In the war case, it’s clear, to me, that we’re saying the ends justify the means. But they don’t.

Still, I suppose there might be some dispute about human shield cases and double effect, and I’m interested in having such disputes. But there is no defense for actions like the bombing of Hiroshima. In Hiroshima, we used the deaths of innocents as the essential means of our ending the war. That is just about as wrong as any action can be. It’s as wrong as me killing someone else’s child to save my family – in short, it is absolutely brutal.

Truman didn’t have a moral dilemma on his hands. He had a seriously disturbed and malformed conscience. In my ever so humble opinion.

 

[St_Francis]

No, this is not true. If you 100% know you are bombing innocents, it is absolutely impermissible to bomb. The principle of double effect does not apply. Here is the contrast:

BOMBING SITUATION

The end = ending a war (i.e. saving lives)
The means = a bomb which directly (though unintentionally) causes death to innocents

ECTOPIC PREGNANCY

The end = saving a life
The means = a life-saving operation that indirectly causes death to an innocent who is already dying

The operation is the type of thing that saves lives, even if (in this case) it accidentally shortens a life. But bombing is not intrinsically a life-saving activity; quite the opposite.

In the war case, it’s clear, to me, that we’re saying the ends justify the means. But they don’t.

Still, I suppose there might be some dispute about human shield cases and double effect, and I’m interested in having such disputes. But there is no defense for actions like the bombing of Hiroshima. In Hiroshima, we used the deaths of innocents as the essential means of our ending the war. That is just about as wrong as any action can be. It’s as wrong as me killing someone else’s child to save my family – in short, it is absolutely brutal.

Truman didn’t have a moral dilemma on his hands. He had a seriously disturbed and malformed conscience. In my ever so humble opinion.

My understanding was that the OP said he wanted to commit genocide against **ISIS, **which is a band of murderous thugs laying waste wherever they go. To me, he wasn’t saying he wanted to kill everyone else around the group, but that he wanted to express his feeling of wanting to completely annihilate these horrific psychopaths in the strongest way possible.

So i think we may have been talking at cross-purposes?

 

[ready]

I suggest that you pray your rosary fervently and daily, and recommend yourself and all persecuted Christians to Our Lady of Ransom. God bless you.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

My understanding was that the OP said he wanted to commit genocide against **ISIS, **which is a band of murderous thugs laying waste wherever they go. To me, he wasn’t saying he wanted to kill everyone else around the group, but that he wanted to express his feeling of wanting to completely annihilate these horrific psychopaths in the strongest way possible.

So i think we may have been talking at cross-purposes?

I was looking at the phrase:

nuke the areas that ISIS controls until it’s one big sheet of glass

That clearly implies civilian casualties. I can understand the sentiment causing the OP to feel this way, but the OP is right to say that Jesus would not condone such actions.