How do I refute this? It actually makes sense!

[coolduude]

This is from a born-again Christian:
“what do you think you would do if you were in the Presence of His Spirit? ALL POWER AND TRUTH!! Do you not think you would be CHANGED SUPERNATURALLY from the inside, out? I think they were so powerfully changed and FILLED with the Holy Spirit that they were BORN AGAIN and was guided by the Spirit to Evangelize The Good News and Perform Miracles in His Name. Infact, I would be on here witnessing if that wasn’t true! So my friend, I urge you to go to the upper room with no IDOLS and call on HIM”

He’s talking about Pentecost.
I think he has s a point, to an extent.

How do I refute this?
I need answers pretty soon, please!

 

[Genesis315]

An emotional high can be had in any false religion, that’s not what it’s about. Anyway, Catholics are born again Baptism (as Christ and His Apostles, guided by that same Spirit, taught.) and are changed “inside and out.” Anyway, the graces of Pentecost are received in the sacrament of Confirmation–just ask any of the converts here how they felt when they were confirmed.

 

[WatchfulPilgrim]

Not sure exactly what he means by “idols”. It’s possible he thinks Catholics rely too much on the ritual (baptism for instance). Jesus did tell the apostles to baptize people, therefore, I have to assume that water, ministers/priests (the apostles at that time), AND the Holy Spirit should all have a role in baptism - not that God can’t work outside of those conditions, but I wouldn’t so easily dismiss the elements and “ritual” considering it’s Scriptural basis.

 

[VociMike]

I’m not clear what you want to refute, exactly.

However, I would point out that Adam and Eve were in the presence of God, and that didn’t work out exactly right.

And Lucifer was in the presence of God, and we know what a stinker he and his cronies turned out to be.

Should we also include Judas in the list, for good measure?

 

[rstegeman]

I’m not clear what you want to refute, exactly.

However, I would point out that Adam and Eve were in the presence of God, and that didn’t work out exactly right.

And Lucifer was in the presence of God, and we know what a stinker he and his cronies turned out to be.

Should we also include Judas in the list, for good measure?

And Jesus walked with some of the Apostles in his glorified state and they didn’t recognize him at first. Which I think is also the case with many Catholics today when it comes to the Eucharist.

 

[AshleyBelle]

This is from a born-again Christian:
**“what do you think you would do if you were in the Presence of His Spirit? **ALL POWER AND TRUTH!! Do you not think you would be CHANGED SUPERNATURALLY from the inside, out? I think they were so powerfully changed and FILLED with the Holy Spirit that they were BORN AGAIN and was guided by the Spirit to Evangelize The Good News and Perform Miracles in His Name. Infact, I would be on here witnessing if that wasn’t true! So my friend, I urge you to go to the upper room with no IDOLS and call on HIM”

He’s talking about Pentecost.
I think he has s a point, to an extent.

How do I refute this?
I need answers pretty soon, please!

I would ask him…

“What do you think YOU would do if you could actually stand in the presence of Jesus? Catholics who believe in faith. “I am not worthy, but only say the word and I shall be healed” experience Him, TRULY present in every mass!”

 

[paul_c]

This is from a born-again Christian:
“what do you think you would do if you were in the Presence of His Spirit? ALL POWER AND TRUTH!! Do you not think you would be CHANGED SUPERNATURALLY from the inside, out? I think they were so powerfully changed and FILLED with the Holy Spirit that they were BORN AGAIN and was guided by the Spirit to Evangelize The Good News and Perform Miracles in His Name. Infact, I would be on here witnessing if that wasn’t true! So my friend, I urge you to go to the upper room with no IDOLS and call on HIM”

He’s talking about Pentecost.
I think he has s a point, to an extent.

How do I refute this?
I need answers pretty soon, please!

What exactly do you think his point is? He’s tryiig to convert you simply by saying the Holy Spirit made him born again? That’s not much of sales pitch, although I’m sure he did it with enthusiasm.

The fact is, God enters our hearts in his own time. Despite his obvious enthusiasm, your evangelical friend really doesn’t have that much to offer you. The deposit of faith that leads to salvation comes from the Apostles and has been passed down through the One, Holy, Catholic and Aspostolic Church. The sacraments that provide God’s grace are also available only through the church. We get to recieve Jesus bodily every day if we so choose. Your friend, or more likely once of his ancestors, abandonned all that when they left the Church. He will probably tell you that you will be saved if you just have Faith in Jesus, and that you will never lose that salvation no matter what you do in the future, if only you pronounce once that Jesus Christ is Lord, ignoring the fact that we are all called to live sacramental, sanctifying lives.

If your friend persists in trying to convert you, tell him you belong to the Catholic Church. Explain that this is the one true Church begun by Jesus himself and that it has a 2000 year history of salvation and the graces available from the sacraments. It has a 2000 year history of holiness and includes great Saints like St. Francis Assisi and more recently St. Theresa of Calcutta and fully documented miracles like those at Fatima and Lourdes. Then ask him about the history of his church…

 

[coolduude]

Then ask him about the history of his church…

I beat you to that one.

Here was his response:

“religion to me is nothing more than a system of man-made beliefs that will never lead you to Salvation and Eternal Life - meaning, the Spirit of The Lord is not there and that’s what you need inorder to know Him. All I did was repent through my heart, I wept for 4 days while giving my heart to Jesus until He saved me! He loves you so much I wish you knew! What did the first Christians do in the upper room to Receive Him? This is the day Christianity started so what happened and what did they do?”

Classic born- again response if you ask me.

 

[AshleyBelle]

I beat you to that one.

Here was his response:

“religion to me is nothing more than a system of man-made beliefs that will never lead you to Salvation and Eternal Life - meaning, the Spirit of The Lord is not there and that’s what you need inorder to know Him. All I did was repent through my heart, I wept for 4 days while giving my heart to Jesus until He saved me! He loves you so much I wish you knew! What did the first Christians do in the upper room to Receive Him? This is the day Christianity started so what happened and what did they do?”

Classic born- again response if you ask me.

This is just my opinion, and I’m not sure if it reflects actual church teaching…

But I think “Christianity” started When Mary said “yes.”

 

[Petersfriend]

I would ask him…

“What do you think YOU would do if you could actually stand in the presence of Jesus? Catholics who believe in faith. “I am not worthy, but only say the word and I shall be healed” experience Him, TRULY present in every mass!”

No need to refute! Just make sure you know Jesus through absolute faith in His death on the cross for you. “For it is by grace you are saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, not as a result of works, o no one can boast.”–Ephesians 2:8-9

 

[paul_c]

No need to refute! Just make sure you know Jesus through absolute faith in His death on the cross for you. “For it is by grace you are saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, not as a result of works, o no one can boast.”–Ephesians 2:8-9

This is a typical Calvinist viewpoint. While it is true that we are saved by God’s grace, it is equally true that we need to use our free will to accept his gifts as well. The weakness of the Calvinist viewpoint is that it denies God’s other gifts to us: conscience, reason and free will. It also renders a life of love and sanctification as worthless…

 

[warpspeedpetey]

This is from a born-again Christian:
“what do you think you would do if you were in the Presence of His Spirit? ALL POWER AND TRUTH!! Do you not think you would be CHANGED SUPERNATURALLY from the inside, out? I think they were so powerfully changed and FILLED with the Holy Spirit that they were BORN AGAIN and was guided by the Spirit to Evangelize The Good News and Perform Miracles in His Name. Infact, I would be on here witnessing if that wasn’t true! So my friend, I urge you to go to the upper room with no IDOLS and call on HIM”

He’s talking about Pentecost.
I think he has s a point, to an extent.

How do I refute this?
I need answers pretty soon, please!

tell him to read Job 42:7-9

G-d commands Jobs faithless friends to Have Job intercede on their behalf.

this proves that intercessory prayer is pleasing to G-d.

more than likely your friend will ignore this, then point out to him if he rejects the scriptures than he is rejecting G-d.

maybe you can bring him around to the Truth.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

I beat you to that one.

Here was his response:

“religion to me is nothing more than a system of man-made beliefs that will never lead you to Salvation and Eternal Life - meaning, the Spirit of The Lord is not there and that’s what you need inorder to know Him. All I did was repent through my heart, I wept for 4 days while giving my heart to Jesus until He saved me! He loves you so much I wish you knew! What did the first Christians do in the upper room to Receive Him? This is the day Christianity started so what happened and what did they do?”

Classic born- again response if you ask me.

what did he say when you quoted matt 16:18?

 

[Petersfriend]

This is a typical Calvinist viewpoint. While it is true that we are saved by God’s grace, it is equally true that we need to use our free will to accept his gifts as well. The weakness of the Calvinist viewpoint is that it denies God’s other gifts to us: conscience, reason and free will. It also renders a life of love and sanctification as worthless…

What is Calvinistic about it? All I did was quote a verse of Scripture and said to check your relationship with Jesus. And how in the world would it render “a life of love and sanctification worthless”? That’s a bizarre statement.

 

[VociMike]

I beat you to that one.

Here was his response:

“religion to me is nothing more than a system of man-made beliefs that will never lead you to Salvation and Eternal Life - meaning, the Spirit of The Lord is not there and that’s what you need inorder to know Him. All I did was repent through my heart, I wept for 4 days while giving my heart to Jesus until He saved me! He loves you so much I wish you knew! What did the first Christians do in the upper room to Receive Him? This is the day Christianity started so what happened and what did they do?”

Classic born- again response if you ask me.

I wonder by what logic he excludes the bible from his skepticism about “man-made” stuff.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

No need to refute! Just make sure you know Jesus through absolute faith in His death on the cross for you. “For it is by grace you are saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, not as a result of works, o no one can boast.”–Ephesians 2:8-9

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus in good works, which God hath prepared that we should walk in them.

Jas 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only?

Gal 5:4 You are made void of Christ, you who are justified in the law: you are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we in spirit, by faith, wait for the hope of justice.
Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing nor uncircumcision: but faith that worketh by Charity.

npatrol:

 

[Petersfriend]

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus in good works, which God hath prepared that we should walk in them.

Jas 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only?

Gal 5:4 You are made void of Christ, you who are justified in the law: you are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we in spirit, by faith, wait for the hope of justice.
Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing nor uncircumcision: but faith that worketh by Charity.

npatrol:

I believe every single verse of Scripture! It’s all there. I love these two:
Acts 13:48
When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

And…Ephesians 1:4-6
4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him In love
5He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
6to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

 

[wisdomseeker]

This is from a born-again Christian:
“what do you think you would do if you were in the Presence of His Spirit? ALL POWER AND TRUTH!! Do you not think you would be CHANGED SUPERNATURALLY from the inside, out? I think they were so powerfully changed and FILLED with the Holy Spirit that they were BORN AGAIN and was guided by the Spirit to Evangelize The Good News and Perform Miracles in His Name. Infact, I would be on here witnessing if that wasn’t true! So my friend, I urge you to go to the upper room with no IDOLS and call on HIM”

He’s talking about Pentecost.
I think he has s a point, to an extent.

How do I refute this?
I need answers pretty soon, please!

first thing, be very calm and show no emotion. it is better not to say anything than say the wrong thing.

i would say he’s gotta big imagination. ask him if he has been at the upper room. and what happpened than.

this is one more strategy against the Church.

ask him if he ever experienced being in the True Church that was born in the upper room that day.

****“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D… ****

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I believe every single verse of Scripture! It’s all there. I love these two:
Acts 13:48
When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

And…Ephesians 1:4-6
4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him In love
5He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
6to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

It appears one must “work” their faith, lest they fall from grace.

**Gal 5:4 You are made void of Christ, you who are justified in the law: you are fallen from grace. **

2Co 5:10 For we must all be manifested before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the proper things of the body, according as he hath done, whether it be good or evil.

2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers be transformed as the ministers of justice, whose end shall be according to their works.

1Pe 1:17 And if you invoke as Father him who, without respect of persons, judgeth according to every one’s work: converse in fear during the time of your sojourning here.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing in the presence of the throne. And the books were opened: and another book was opened, which was the book of life. And the dead were judged by those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it: and death and hell gave up their dead that were in them. And they were judged, every one according to their works.

npatrol:

 

[Petersfriend]

It appears one must “work” their faith, lest they fall from grace.

Gal 5:4 You are made void of Christ, you who are justified in the law: you are fallen from grace.

2Co 5:10 For we must all be manifested before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the proper things of the body, according as he hath done, whether it be good or evil.

2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers be transformed as the ministers of justice, whose end shall be according to their works.

1Pe 1:17 And if you invoke as Father him who, without respect of persons, judgeth according to every one’s work: converse in fear during the time of your sojourning here.

**Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing in the presence of the throne. And the books were opened: and another book was opened, which was the book of life. And the dead were judged by those things which were written in the books, according to their works. **
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it: and death and hell gave up their dead that were in them. And they were judged, every one according to their works.

npatrol:

All I did was quote Scripture! What’s your point? What you like it better if we removed certain passages from the Bible? What exactly are you getting at?