how do i respond to a fundamentalist's view of Easter and Christmas as pagan in origin

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Let me tell u, these fundamentalists see the catholic church as evil. Try getting into a theological discussion with them – mind boggling
 
blaskoman said:
Let me tell u, these fundamentalists see the catholic church as evil. Try getting into a theological discussion with them – mind boggling
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Ask them why they think Christs birth and Resurrection are pagan.
 
First of all demand evidence of a pre Christian celebration called Easter which is more or less in relationship to the jewish passover (or the modern rule). Also ask them do the Christians in all other places of the world celebrate a different holiday called Pascha? Than English or German Christians do?

If they don’t recognise the patent absurdidty after all of these things pointed out to them, then don’t bother. They aren’t worth talking to.
 
“If you believe in the Resurrection, wouldn’t you WANT to celebrate such a beautiful, great, amazing thing? Should we cower and hide our light or let it shine for this one big HOLY day?”

Read a few books: Many of our Easter traditions are actually Christian, not pagan, and the symbols have a Christian meaning.

You can start with Lent and liken it to Christ’s fasting in the desert.

Spring is about newness and a recovery from winter; isn’t the Resurrection?

As for Christmas, you could agree with them that it has become too commercial but again, ask them: “wouldn’t you WANT to celebrate the humble birth of our Wonderful King?”

The problem with the Fundamentalist arguments is that they are spoken again and again but we don’t know how to respond. So they keep on hauling out the same arguments from the last century. But there are good and true responses, even better than mine, and we must learn to use them lovingly.

Sweep them off their feet with logic and love.
 
Therefore, if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature: old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 2 Cor. 5:17

Tell them it makes no difference what these holidays used to be. It only matters what they* are now*. My goodness, if you go back far enough, every single one of us has pagan ancestors. Does that mean we are all evil? Our pagan ancestors weren’t evil. They were just people like us, but people who hadn’t been introduced to God yet, struggling in a world that they didn’t understand. That’s not evil. Fundies need to lighten up.
 
I don’t even understand the question. 😦

Easter, the Solemnity of Solemnities, celebrates Christ’s resurrection. Christmas celebrates his birth. OK, that’s easy.

Are not these COMMON beliefs held by both Catholics and “Fundamentalists”? They do believe in the Son of God becoming man, right? They do believe Christ died and arose? OK, well, if so, we are in harmony on 2 of the biggest questions.

Now if you want to get into WHY Christmas in on the 25th, and did we put it there because pagans were celebrating Solstice and we wanted to convert them to Christianity? Or we converted them and the pagans changed the holiday? Or a thousand other versions, none provable. Who cares? The dates don’t matter.

Obviously no one knows the literal birthday of Jesus. Easter is harder to explain, being a movable feast determined by the Jewish method for Passover. The “Fundamentalists” do understand, don’t they, that Christ was born of the House of David? Easter is linked to Jesus own heritage, not Paganism.

If we all believe in Jesus as Lord, the 2nd person of the Trinity (do “Fundamentalists” believe in the Trinity? If not, cancel all the above and forget it), then why do they wish to fight and nit-pick about historical issues that are blurry and unknown and never will be known?

If someone merely wants to argue or prove Catholics wrong, talking to them is NOT evangelizing, it’s wasting your breath.

A final note: Wikipedia is a great impediment to interfaith understanding because almost every entry involving the Catholic faith has minor to major errors. Remember who writes it. Go to the source instead, use the Catholic Encyclopedia always.
 
Perhaps tell them, thats nice for you " I celebrate the death and birth of Jesus" at Easter and Christmas". Perhaps it is not always about having a battle with others beliefs but standing firm in our own and giving respect to them to allow them to have theirs.
 
blaskoman said:
Let me tell u, these fundamentalists see the catholic church as evil. Try getting into a theological discussion with them – mind boggling
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It shouldn’t boggle the mind if what they’re doing is simply following what is called the regulative principle of worship. Do you know what denomination or independent church affiliation these fundamentalists have?

“Nowhere in Scripture are we commanded to worship God by setting aside a special day to commemorate the observance of Christmas, Easter, or any other holy day except the Lord’s Day. Accordingly, we must reject the observance of these in the Church as inconsistent with the will of our Head Jesus Christ and unsanctioned by his apostles. Despite the prevalence of the practice in evangelical churches all other [sic] the world, we cannot in good conscience participate in the religious observance of Christmas. We neither censure those who disagree with us nor view them with animosity. We humbly affirm this position because we sincerely believe it is the one that our Savior dictates to us in his inspired, all-sufficient Word.” covenant-rpcus.org/node/534
 
Having been in churches that had this train of thought they reasoning is that Christmas trees come from pagans and same with Easter eggs. It is pretty foolish. They say they need to be separate from worldly things.
 
I’ll attempt to answer this “problem”! 🙂 I’m a convert to Catholicism but not new to the Catholic Church (20 yrs in it) and former Protestant. We discussed this very issue in RCIA and I have also done my own research as much as I could. Forgive me as I do not have an citations at the moment …However, Christmas and Easter occur during times of old Pagan “holidays” but that does not make them Pagan.

Pope Gregory (I believe) chose to change the date which we celebrate Christmas to coincide with the Pagan holiday week. Particularly on 12/25 to interrupt the most pornographic and hedonistic day of that week. This was done around the 3rd century. Yes we do use Christmas Trees (evergreens) as did the Pagans. The point of that is to show life during the darkest and coldest time of the year since they are evergreen.

All I know if the confusion of Easter timeframe and Paganism is that during that time the Pagans would celebrate Spring. That is where we get Easter eggs that are decorated and we hunt them down. Also from what I can find rabbits had something to do with it.

Having said all of that, I would strongly encourage you to do some fun research on your own based on what I’ve said. I’m not an apologist by any means. If you find anything more than this, please share if you would. I’m always interested in learning more!
 
The Lord made rabbits, eggs, evergreen trees, crescent moons and yes, even rainbows. Man-made traditions, religions and movements have borrowed these things, but God can and will reclaim them all in time.
 
Is this person married? Do they wear a wedding ring?

Explain that the wedding ring started out as a pagan symbol.

That should hush them up for a while.
 
JHow said:
The Lord made rabbits, eggs, evergreen trees, crescent moons and yes, even rainbows. Man-made traditions, religions and movements have borrowed these things, but God can and will reclaim them all in time.
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Yup.
 
tbcrawford said:
Perhaps tell them, thats nice for you " I celebrate the death and birth of Jesus" at Easter and Christmas". Perhaps it is not always about having a battle with others beliefs but standing firm in our own and giving respect to them to allow them to have theirs.
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This is perhaps the wisest of answers. 👍

Xmas date was set as the celebration of the birth of Jesus of Nazareth. It was set to coincide with those winter pagan festivals that were already being celebrated any way, Sol Invictus, Saturnaila, Yule.

Easter was set, at least in the West to coincide with the Spring Equinox, which was being celebrated any way by pagans. Ostara, Eostre…and by it’s other pagan names. The first day of summer of the Celts. Easter in the West is the first Sunday on or after the full moon that follows the Vernal Equinox. The Celts had two seasons, Summer and Winter…winter began after Lugnasadah after the Autumn Equinox as the days grew shorter and the time of night was greater than the time of day…summer began at the Spring Equinox, when the time of day began to be greater than the time of night. That’s why the Solstice is called “mid-winter” in December, and “mid-summer” in June.

Christianity adopted many of the old pagan feast days and celebrations but provided them with new names and meaning in accord with it’s own religious beliefs. Celebrating the Resurrection is no more Pagan than celebrating the fecundity of the Goddess is Christian. Celebrating the birth of Jesus is no more pagan than celebrating the birth of the Horned One, Sun God is Christian.

For those who wish to believe that Christianity did not “adopt” the celebration dates and times that pagans did…so what…it is obvious to those outside of Christianity that Christianity DID…it comes as no surprise to anyone that Christians would claim they DID NOT.🙂
 
Pope Benedict explained that Easter is a Christian holiday, the background of it, in ‘Spirit of the Liturgy’, and how the cycles of Easter falls on different days each year.

We go back to the constellations, how Christ chose the time in which He was to be born…
Under the Constellation of Aries – the Ram…a sign not only to those living in His times, to believers, but to all of humanity in history.

Christ fulfilled the sacrifice of Abraham, who was directed by the Angel Gabriel to not sacrifice his only son, but to instead sacrifice the ram stuck in a bush. So the ancient Jewish people, knowing of this great event of faith in the life of Abraham, knew this story very well, and also recognize the signs in the stars of the sky.

Jewish and Christian liturgical year is very interesting study involving the moon and sun.

All of creation points to Christ’s coming birth and resurrection. If anything, the timing of Christ’s birth makes the charge of paganism irrelevant. I will come back later to share Pope Benedict’s teachings.
 
There is a correlation between Jewish remembrances and Christian dates in regards to the Lord, the Eastern Church likewise has emphases…but all the dates and feasts/special days refer to Christ’s date of the Incarnation to the 9 months of His birthday in December.

Salvation History is a Judeo Christian event and has nothing to do with paganism.
 
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