How do I respond to a message without taking the bait? Familial relationships and NPD

[mommamaree]

All of her other actions aside, your response to your mom telling you she loves and misses you is “blech”?

Is she legally insane? Do you have any power to have your niece taken away from her? Can you raise your niece if so? If the answer to any or all of these questions is no, you have no choice but to deal with your mother. Dropping out of your niece’s life doesn’t sound like a good option for your niece – so are you willing to deal with your mother to benefit your niece?

My mother does not actually love me. She has confessed on several occasions that she does not feel love, whether giving or receiving. She has brazenly told me that she just doesn’t think about the fact that I have feelings. She has never acted in a loving fashion toward me unless it was a show put on to self-aggrandize. She only says she loves me just prior to an emotionally abusive attack. As in
“I love you. You are fat.”
“I miss you. You are a b*!?+.”
She is like the mother from the Disney movie Tangled. And I only just woke up from my nightmare last fall. So, I mean no offense to anyone here at CAF when I say blech. I was just trying to remind myself what comes next.
I have no legal recourse at this time to gain custody of my niece. Besides, my sister is the rightful mother. I will say no more here on that.
I obviously am willing to deal with my favorite sociopath for the sake of my niece, hence this thread. However, my mother is not allowed around my children, nor is she allowed to communicate with them in any way. I also will not submit to any further interaction with my mother beyond the written word (much easier to record as well).
My sister called me again yesterday to let me know she leveraged against my mother in order to get agreement for the visit from my niece. I was so happy. We get to enjoy seeing her next month for four whole days! So I will maintain texting only communication with my mother in order to facilitate that. Of course, while my niece is here, she will get to call our mother.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

My mother does not actually love me. She has confessed on several occasions that she does not feel love, whether giving or receiving. She has brazenly told me that she just doesn’t think about the fact that I have feelings. She has never acted in a loving fashion toward me unless it was a show put on to self-aggrandize. She only says she loves me just prior to an emotionally abusive attack. As in
“I love you. You are fat.”
“I miss you. You are a b*!?+.”
She is like the mother from the Disney movie Tangled. And I only just woke up from my nightmare last fall. So, I mean no offense to anyone here at CAF when I say blech. I was just trying to remind myself what comes next.
I have no legal recourse at this time to gain custody of my niece. Besides, my sister is the rightful mother. I will say no more here on that.
I obviously am willing to deal with my favorite sociopath for the sake of my niece, hence this thread. However, my mother is not allowed around my children, nor is she allowed to communicate with them in any way. I also will not submit to any further interaction with my mother beyond the written word (much easier to record as well).
My sister called me again yesterday to let me know she leveraged against my mother in order to get agreement for the visit from my niece. I was so happy. We get to enjoy seeing her next month for four whole days! So I will maintain texting only communication with my mother in order to facilitate that. Of course, while my niece is here, she will get to call our mother.

I know you encounter this sort of reaction all the time. People who have never had a sociopath or someone with NPD in their lives just cannot grasp the reality. It’s hard enough for those of us who are in the unenviable position of having to deal with these people within our families, to understand and believe that someone who says “I love you,” really has no idea what love is and has no ability to actually experience it. We keep trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, and they keep on hurting us over and over again. Until one day, it becomes horribly clear that the words they speak are just another tool they use to draw people close enough to use us to achieve their own goals.

Psychology Today has a piece this month titled something like “Notes From A Sociopath,” which I am not sure was written by an actual sociopath, but which may have been. I will try to find it online and post a link. It might help some others to know what you are dealing with.

 

[mommamaree]

I know you encounter this sort of reaction all the time. People who have never had a sociopath or someone with NPD in their lives just cannot grasp the reality. It’s hard enough for those of us who are in the unenviable position of having to deal with these people within our families, to understand and believe that someone who says “I love you,” really has no idea what love is and has no ability to actually experience it. We keep trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, and they keep on hurting us over and over again. Until one day, it becomes horribly clear that the words they speak are just another tool they use to draw people close enough to use us to achieve their own goals.

Psychology Today has a piece this month titled something like “Notes From A Sociopath,” which I am not sure was written by an actual sociopath, but which may have been. I will try to find it online and post a link. It might help some others to know what you are dealing with.

Porcupine people.

Yes, I would be very interested in reading that article, TRJ.

Actually, it is counterintuitive, but I feel a sense of relief along with the flash of anger every time she does something like this. Because it reminds me I AM NOT CRAZY.

My sister told me something very serious and unsettling yesterday. She is allowing our mother to come down to visit after her new baby is born. But she told mom she is afraid of having her in the home because of what happened with her first child, my niece. My mother tried to “reassure” her by saying: “you don’t have to worry that I am going to take this baby away from you, too, because I know you actually want this baby”.
When my sister told me of my mother’s words yesterday, I felt like a black hole was opening up and I was peering into the darkness that hides the evil within my mother’s mind and intentions. I felt a sense of spiritual vertigo. It was eery and terrifying.

 

[mommamaree]

TRJ,
I found and read the article. Thanks for mentioning it.

Here is the link. Confessions of a Sociopath

psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/confessions-sociopath

That pretty much sums up both the behavior and intermittent confessions of my mother. I think sometimes she wonders why she has no conscience or empathy, which is why she confesses things to me. But she is very dangerous and the confessions themselves might just be strategic.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Porcupine people.

Yes, I would be very interested in reading that article, TRJ.

Actually, it is counterintuitive, but I feel a sense of relief along with the flash of anger every time she does something like this. Because it reminds me I AM NOT CRAZY.

My sister told me something very serious and unsettling yesterday. She is allowing our mother to come down to visit after her new baby is born. But she told mom she is afraid of having her in the home because of what happened with her first child, my niece. My mother tried to “reassure” her by saying: “you don’t have to worry that I am going to take this baby away from you, too, because I know you actually want this baby”.
When my sister told me of my mother’s words yesterday, I felt like a black hole was opening up and I was peering into the darkness that hides the evil within my mother’s mind and intentions. I felt a sense of spiritual vertigo. It was eery and terrifying.

Terrifying indeed. As if your mother’s actions are dependent upon what she observes to be true. No inner sense of morals or ethics of what is right and wrong. Yes, a sociopath.

 

[EasterJoy]

Story short: My mother has some sort of severe personality disorder. She is raising my niece. I have recently reconciled with my sister (my niece’s mother) and we cleared the air and discovered the amount of our mother’s lies and manipulations. I had been NO CONTACT with my mother for more than 6 months, until recently I sent a text saying that I would be willing to communicate via text or email, written communication only. I did this so that I will have opportunities to communicate with my niece. I have had nice chats via phone and FaceTime with my niece. So far, ending NO CONTACT has been worth it for me, just to be in my niece’s life.

Okay, so current question:
I got a text from my mother last night. She is apparently incapable of any kind of small talk, because while I have texted her a couple times, her first text to me is
“I love you. I miss you and your family.”



Sigh. Yawn. Blech.

I am starting to see that she really is as disturbed as I suspected she was, and that I was not overreacting in order to protect myself. She cannot send a text like “We are doing such-and-such today.” or “Niece is having her soccer game tonight” or “I watched a nice movie yesterday”.
No, for my mother, she is ALWAYS looking for the next score. How can she play on my heart-strings and make me feel pity for her. I need to go back and read the Sociopath Next Door book again.

So finally, my question is, how might I respond without taking the bait? Or is ignoring the text altogether the best idea?..
But this is what my mother has always done, and it is what she will always do. It is wrong, but it will not change, but until my niece is old enough to make a cross-country trip all on her own so she can visit us, I am going to have to figure out how to manage a sociopath.
Any thoughts?

Well, a perfectly healthy mother who has not been able to contact her daughter for 6 months might send a text like that, and you could choose to respond in a way that is, on the surface, also what a healthy daughter might text back but also, like her, choosing those topics and words that will serve the ends you have in mind. I think it is best to think the way you would think if you were a social worker. How do I deal with this caretaker in order to take care of my client? Can I find a path that might achieve good and will do no harm, including not putting myself in harm’s way?

You will not think about this for long before realizing that this will require you to really develop a lizard’s heart and a crocodile’s skin with regards to your mother’s attempts to manipulate you. A zookeeper cannot afford to anthropomorphize a crocodile, and the daughter of a sociopath cannot afford to wish her mother is anything but what she is. Wishing will take your arm off. Regret, anger, resentment…they’ll all take your arm off, because they will distract you from the task at hand. You need to stick to all those things that might be required by the task at hand and only those things. Your mother’s strategy, you know, depends upon distracting you into the water with her where she has the advantage. You cannot go there, into her element.

You need to sit down, consider the strategies open to you, count up your inner resources, and then ask yourself: Do I have the means to do what it will take to achieve a positive outcome from this course of action? If you think you do, then you need to chart a path to guide you through the smoke and confusion of battle.

“… what king marching into battle would not first sit down and decide whether with ten thousand troops he can successfully oppose another king advancing upon him with twenty thousand troops? But if not, while he is still far away, he will send a delegation to ask for peace terms.” Luke 15:31-32

"*…Thus we may know that there are five essentials for victory:
(1) He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.
(2) He will win who knows how to handle both superior and inferior forces.
(3) He will win whose army is animated by the same spirit throughout all its ranks.
(4) He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared.
(5) He will win who has military capacity and is not interfered with by the sovereign.

Victory lies in the knowledge of these five points. Hence the saying: If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle"
*Sun Tzu, The Art of War

You may think The Art of War an odd source to quote from, but it is a favorite of many athletic coaches. There are little pearls in there, and you might find that the mindset of the author will be very helpful to you. He is very practical-minded, and by the time you are through reading it, you might find it has put you in a very practical mindset, yourself. You may see the value of the habit of looking ahead for the dangers in terrain on which you have been overcome in the past because you were not prepared. Or not. The library usually has it; if it does nothing for you, that’s OK, too. Stay practical–use what helps, discard the rest.

If you want to remind yourself how your mother thinks, Machiavelli might be a good author. I only jest a little bit…if you cannot detach from her plays on your emotions and make this into a very practical and strategy-minded project, then do not do this. You will be like a non-swimmer jumping in to save someone being drowned by a crocodile. Don’t try to be a hero when you’re not qualified to do the rescue. The results will be tragic, and they are avoidable.

 

[mommamaree]

So here is how I replied today.

Sister called me to let me know that you and she made arrangements for Niece to visit her and us in a few weeks. This is gonna be fun. Please email or text me any instructions for her visit so I can prepare. Her cousins are super excited. Thank you.

Then more texting followed, back and forth, maintaining a civil and matter-of-fact tone. No manipulation, no spite.

I decided to totally ignore the text that prompted me to start the thread, because I knew that kind of message ALWAYS leads up to a huge whammy for me. She does not say I love you with no strings attached. I have told her in the past that I love her, whether in reciprocation or spontaneously, and it gives her an opening. Love equals abuse in her mind. As in if you love her, she can abuse you. She has not been abused herself, so I don’t want to go there in this thread.

 

[mommamaree]

Also, in six months she has never onced stopped contacting me. Phone calls, texts, attempted visits (she actually drove to my town on her way between her visits to my sister and brother). She has never respected my request. I ignored all attempts. My husband actually had to tell her to leave our town, that she would not be invited in. The entire period of No Contact, I was deluged with attempts at contact. Pleading, raging, blaming, and guilt trips. Then repeat. It gets wearying. So that is another reason I had to ignore the first text.

 

[EasterJoy]

Also, in six months she has never onced stopped contacting me. Phone calls, texts, attempted visits (she actually drove to my town on her way between her visits to my sister and brother). She has never respected my request. I ignored all attempts. My husband actually had to tell her to leave our town, that she would not be invited in. The entire period of No Contact, I was deluged with attempts at contact. Pleading, raging, blaming, and guilt trips. Then repeat. It gets wearying. So that is another reason I had to ignore the first text.

It is going to take a long time to extinguish a behavior that has been irregularly rewarded in the past. Think of a rat who’s had a machine in its cage that dispenses peanuts when it hits a bar. If the rat can’t predict how many hits it will take to get the peanut, the thing becomes like a slot machine. It takes a very long time to convince a gambler that a slot machine is broken. The lights have to quit working, the sounds have to stop, it has to quit taking money, and most of all it has to quit providing payouts. Hang in there, because that is what you have to become: the broken slot machine in a business that used to be a casino and now is something else. Be ready for that, OK?

That is the ticket: Old Management, Old Location, but a New Business Model, and WE MEAN IT!

 

[mommamaree]

It is going to take a long time to extinguish a behavior that has been irregularly rewarded in the past. Think of a rat who’s had a machine in its cage that dispenses peanuts when it hits a bar. If the rat can’t predict how many hits it will take to get the peanut, the thing becomes like a slot machine. It takes a very long time to convince a gambler that a slot machine is broken. The lights have to quit working, the sounds have to stop, it has to quit taking money, and most of all it has to quit providing payouts. Hang in there, because that is what you have to become: the broken slot machine in a business that used to be a casino and now is something else. Be ready for that, OK?

That is the ticket: Old Management, Old Location, but a New Business Model, and WE MEAN IT!

Always awesome analogies, EasterJoy.
Thanks.

 

[Allegra]

Could you stay “no contact” with your mom and see your neice when she visits your sister?

 

[mommamaree]

Could you stay “no contact” with your mom and see your neice when she visits your sister?

That is essentially the arrangement that my sister worked out. Except I will accept/respond to appropriate written communication.

 

[Allegra]

That is essentially the arrangement that my sister worked out. Except I will accept/respond to appropriate written communication.

I would change my name. My mother is depressed right now and she bound and determined to make me crazy too. (Or at least make me seriously consider my sanity.) The last two days have been quiet. It’s the calm before the storm…

 

[mommamaree]

I would change my name. My mother is depressed right now and she bound and determined to make me crazy too. (Or at least make me seriously consider my sanity.) The last two days have been quiet. It’s the calm before the storm…

I had not recalled that you have personal experience with having a mother like mine. I am sorry.

 

[EasterJoy]

Always awesome analogies, EasterJoy.
Thanks.

Unfortunately, I think this “former customer” is going to have to bang on every button of every appliance in your shop that’s plugged into a wall before she’s going to be convinced that you really got rid of the slot machine. (Gambling addicts are like that. )

 

[Allegra]

I had not recalled that you have personal experience with having a mother like mine. I am sorry.

Oh no. I’ve got a mother like no other.

…and she’s trying to quit smoking.

 

[mommamaree]

You know, as much as I realize that my mother is a dangerous and toxic person, somehow I still have hope that one day, when I get to Heaven, that she will be the one to welcome me. C.S. Lewis wrote a wonderful book about heaven and hell called The Great Divorce, which I often recall whenever I think about people who, in this life, are my enemies. One day, all of her defense mechanisms and her deficiencies will be burned away and healed with the balm of God’s love. Then, we will be able to enjoy an ETERNITY of joyful worship and fellowship in the presence of our Lord. So when I remember to keep an eternal perspective on this situation, the few short years of suffering in this life seems insignificant compared to an eternity of joy.
So my responsibility toward my mother now is to practice genuine charity. I should learn to walk the middle path, the one that I cannot see with my own eyes but can only find if I keep my eyes on Jesus. This path is harder because I cannot cut her out of my life altogether and try to forget about her, but I cannot just allow her back in and provide more opportunities for her to destroy herself by manipulating and abusing others. I have to pray and decide moment-by-moment, case-by-case, how to act appropriately.
I find that it is similar to the practice of NFP. I cannot make a once-and-for-all decision of TTA. I have to decided moment-by-moment, month-by-month, with prayer and discernment and discussion with my husband. I know that it is not exactly the same thing, but I am discovering that living the authentic Christian life requires the Christian to rely upon one’s relationship with the Lord in EVERY moment and in EVERY aspect of one’s life. There are very few things that are once-for-all decisions or actions. It makes it incredibly challenging and yet, paradoxically, incredibly stress-relieving. I do not have to, at this moment, decide “for the rest of my life”. I can decide just for this moment, this case, this day, how to act in a Christian fashion, how to acknowledge my own needs yet still love my enemies.

 

[Allegra]

You know, as much as I realize that my mother is a dangerous and toxic person, somehow I still have hope that one day, when I get to Heaven, that she will be the one to welcome me. C.S. Lewis wrote a wonderful book about heaven and hell called The Great Divorce, which I often recall whenever I think about people who, in this life, are my enemies. One day, all of her defense mechanisms and her deficiencies will be burned away and healed with the balm of God’s love. Then, we will be able to enjoy an ETERNITY of joyful worship and fellowship in the presence of our Lord. So when I remember to keep an eternal perspective on this situation, the few short years of suffering in this life seems insignificant compared to an eternity of joy.
So my responsibility toward my mother now is to practice genuine charity. I should learn to walk the middle path, the one that I cannot see with my own eyes but can only find if I keep my eyes on Jesus. This path is harder because I cannot cut her out of my life altogether and try to forget about her, but I cannot just allow her back in and provide more opportunities for her to destroy herself by manipulating and abusing others. I have to pray and decide moment-by-moment, case-by-case, how to act appropriately.
I find that it is similar to the practice of NFP. I cannot make a once-and-for-all decision of TTA. I have to decided moment-by-moment, month-by-month, with prayer and discernment and discussion with my husband. I know that it is not exactly the same thing, but I am discovering that living the authentic Christian life requires the Christian to rely upon one’s relationship with the Lord in EVERY moment and in EVERY aspect of one’s life. There are very few things that are once-for-all decisions or actions. It makes it incredibly challenging and yet, paradoxically, incredibly stress-relieving. I do not have to, at this moment, decide “for the rest of my life”. I can decide just for this moment, this case, this day, how to act in a Christian fashion, how to acknowledge my own needs yet still love my enemies.

I have a really hard time imagining my mother greeting me in heaven. (Which is pretty sad.) It’s not that I don’t hope that she gets there, but if she was there, she’d have to be so changed that I probably wouldn’t recognize her if I floated right past her. But then again, we’d all be changed wouldn’t we. I wonder if anyone would recognize anyone else?

 

[mommamaree]

I have a really hard time imagining my mother greeting me in heaven. (Which is pretty sad.) It’s not that I don’t hope that she gets there, but if she was there, she’d have to be so changed that I probably wouldn’t recognize her if I floated right past her. But then again, we’d all be changed wouldn’t we. I wonder if anyone would recognize anyone else?

Of course we will recognize each other! We will all finally be free of all the sin that disfigures us. I think that we will even recognize people we never met in this life, but for whom we prayed (through prayer chains or online forums or news stories).

 

[Allegra]

Of course we will recognize each other! We will all finally be free of all the sin that disfigures us. I think that we will even recognize people we never met in this life, but for whom we prayed (through prayer chains or online forums or news stories).

It’s possible. It’s just hard for me to imagine my mom without all that sin. There are some people I can imagine being perfect in heaven. (My grandma, my dad, my husband, etc) It’s just hard to picture my mom there.