How Do I Respond to a Muslim on Mark 10:17-18 & Luke 18:18-19?

[TheObstinateAss]

Mark 10:17-18 reads

As he was setting out on a journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.

Luke 18:18-19 reads

A certain ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.

A Muslim I was dialoguing with presented this as a proof that Jesus did not, in fact, believe He was God. How might a Catholic respond to this?

 

[Scoobyshme]

I would say that Jesus had two natures, one human, and one Divine. As such, He had two wills. (Two natures = two wills). When He made these remarks, I would think He was speaking from his human nature.

 

[piejesu]

A certain ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.

The point Jesus was making is that the ruler had indeed intuited that He (Jesus) was indeed God. The question, ‘Why do you call me good?’, is rhetorical, and the answer, ‘No one is good but God alone.’ is the confirmation that God’s spirit is bearing witness to the same in the context of the words, ‘Good Teacher.’

 

[Big_Dummy]

answering-islam.org/BibleCom/mk10-18.html
answering-islam.org/BibleCom/lk18_19.htm
answering-islam.org/Green/perfect.htm

Jesus was simply pointing out the implications of what the man said.

Only God is good.
Jesus is good.
Therefore, Jesus is God.

 

[TheObstinateAss]

I would say that Jesus had two natures, one human, and one Divine. As such, He had two wills. (Two natures = two wills). When He made these remarks, I would think He was speaking from his human nature.

Scooby, wouldn’t that imply that, in his human nature, Jesus isn’t good?

As for everyone else: Thanks for the links. I’ll check them out ASAP. Many thanks.

 

[Scoobyshme]

Scooby, wouldn’t that imply that, in his human nature, Jesus isn’t good?

As for everyone else: Thanks for the links. I’ll check them out ASAP. Many thanks.

Obstinate, that’s a good question, although I would have to say not necessarily, since his human nature could be mistaken, but not His Divine nature, yes? I kind of liked Big Dummy’s answer a lot better, anyway.

 

[TheObstinateAss]

Obstinate, that’s a good question, although I would have to say not necessarily, since his human nature could be mistaken, but not His Divine nature, yes? I kind of liked Big Dummy’s answer a lot better, anyway.

Yeah, I found the second link from Big Dummy extremely helpful.

As for the two natures thing, though, I still confess that I find that somewhat hard to understand. I’m not sure how in his divine nature He could know He was good, but in His human nature He could not know He was good. It almost sounds like Jesus has two different minds, and that in one mind he knows He is good, but in the other He doesn’t. How does that add up, exactly?

 

[Stevin_Habba]

As for the two natures thing, though, I still confess that I find that somewhat hard to understand. I’m not sure how in his divine nature He could know He was good, but in His human nature He could not know He was good. It almost sounds like Jesus has two different minds, and that in one mind he knows He is good, but in the other He doesn’t. How does that add up, exactly?

My “Almost” Catholic brother in Jesus Christ

The Catechism of the Catholic Church (and I highly suggest you pick one up and read it soon) can answer your question beautifully. I will provide for you a quote from the Sacred Scriptures which I would like you to read first, however, then I will insert a link at the end to the Catechism which touches on the “TRUE GOD AND TRUE MAN” doctrine that you are having trouble with.

Philippians, Chapter 2, Verses 5 to 11:
"Have among yourselves the same attitude that is also yours in Christ Jesus,

Who, though he was in the form of God,

did not regard equality with God something to be grasped.

Rather, he emptied himself,

taking the form of a slave,

coming in human likeness;

and found human in appearance,

he humbled himself,

becoming obedient to death, even death on a cross.

Because of this, God greatly exalted him

and bestowed on him the name

that is above every name,

that at the name of Jesus

every knee should bend,

of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth,h

and every tongue confess that

Jesus Christ is Lord,

to the glory of God the Father.

PLEASE READ THROUGH THE FOLLOWING LINK FROM BEGINNING TO END (omitting nothing)
scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a3p1.htm

Also, if you’d like, you can add me on Facebook, search “STEVIN HABBA” and we can continue our discussions there. I can see that you are interested in the faith and I can really help <3

I love you and God loves you so much more <3 <3 <3

 

[Trevor_Stamm]

Ave Maria

A certain ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.

The point Jesus was making is that the ruler had indeed intuited that He (Jesus) was indeed God. The question, ‘Why do you call me good?’, is rhetorical, and the answer, ‘No one is good but God alone.’ is the confirmation that God’s spirit is bearing witness to the same in the context of the words, ‘Good Teacher.’

Obstinate, I really hope you read piejesu’s post because this is your answer to whomever brings this verse up against the Divinity of Christ.

Tell your Muslim friend to stop proof texting verse to support his misguided notions and if ever bringing this or others up, please remind him to read the surrounding verses to bring context back into the verse. If this person actually read this passage, and not extract it off a typical anti-Christian website, he would note that Christ did not refute the person but simply asked “why do you call me good when God alone is good?” The man stated he did not break any commandments and Christ did not correct him, ergo Christ recognizes the man’s statement (Good) as truth.

If you have a phone capable of downloading apps I strongly suggest biblical apps, so when people start proof texting in front of you, take out the phone, look it up and read the entire chapter in context. This usually scares most of them away. And it’s especially handy when the app has multiple translations.

Pax Domini

 

[jcrichton]

Mark 10:17-18 reads

Quote:
As he was setting out on a journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.

Luke 18:18-19 reads
Quote:
A certain ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.

A Muslim I was dialoguing with presented this as a proof that Jesus did not, in fact, believe He was God. How might a Catholic respond to this?

A Muslim I was dialoguing with presented this as a proof that Jesus did not, in fact, believe He was God. How might a Catholic respond to this?

Explain to him that Jesus is not stating that He is not God; rather, He is drawing attention away from His Divinity while simultaneously attributing to God the Holiness that Belongs to God.

Also explain to him that when Scriptures are taken out of context and/or read as stand-alone it narrows that particular passage/s to something very maleable that could be interpreted or ignored according to the reader’s precenception…

finally, asking to compare other Scriptural passages where Christ is decisively proclaimed God:

Lk:5:21-22:
21 And the scribes and Pharisees began to think, saying: Who is this who speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone? 22 And when Jesus knew their thoughts, answering he said to them: What is it you think in your hearts?

Mt:8:29:
29 And behold they cried out, saying: What have we to do with thee, Jesus Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

Mk:1:24:
24 Saying: What have we to do with thee, Jesus of Nazareth? Art thou come to destroy us? I know who thou art, the Holy One of God.

Mt:4:10-11:
10 Then Jesus saith to him: Begone, Satan: for it is written: The Lord thy God shalt thou adore, and him only shalt thou serve. 11 Then the devil left him; and behold angels came and ministered to him.

Jn:8:58:
58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was made, I AM. V)

Jn:10:30-33:
30 I and the Father are one. 31 The Jews then took up stones to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them: Many good works I have shewed you from my Father. For which of those works do you stone me? 33 The Jews answered him: For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy: and because that thou. being a, man, makest thyself God.

Jn:13:13:
13 You call me Master and Lord. And you say well: for so I am.

Jn:16:30:
30 Now we know that thou knowest all things and thou needest not that any man should ask thee. By this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

Jn:14:30:
30 I will not now speak many things with you. For the prince of this world: cometh: and in me he hath not any thing.

Jn:1:10-14:
10 He was in the world: and the world was made by him: and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own: and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. 13 Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth.

Jn:14:6-13:
6 Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me. 7 If you had known me, you would without doubt have known my Father also: and from henceforth you shall know him. And you have seen him. 8 Philip saith to him: Lord, shew us the Father; and it is enough for us. 9 Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you and have you not known me? Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also. How sayest thou: Shew us the Father? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works. 11 Believe you not that I am in the Father and the Father in me? 12 Otherwise believe for the very works’ sake. Amen, amen, I say to you, he that believeth in me, the works that I do, he also shall do: and greater than these shall he do. 13 Because I go to the Father: and whatsoever you shall ask the Father in my name, that will I do: that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

There are more passages that you can offer him, if he truly wants to know the Truth!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Scooby, wouldn’t that imply that, in his human nature, Jesus isn’t good?

As for everyone else: Thanks for the links. I’ll check them out ASAP. Many thanks.

…not according to Scripture since it attest that Jesus did not hold on to His Divinity, which was His Right, but made Himself equal to us, servants, in everything except sin; ergo: Jesus always good!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Yeah, I found the second link from Big Dummy extremely helpful.

As for the two natures thing, though, I still confess that I find that somewhat hard to understand. I’m not sure how in his divine nature He could know He was good, but in His human nature He could not know He was good. It almost sounds like Jesus has two different minds, and that in one mind he knows He is good, but in the other He doesn’t. How does that add up, exactly?

This separation of Jesus’ human and Divine natures are solely for our purpose (finite beigns); Jesus was not divided He simply was the quintissential compartmentalizer–He had to be in order to become one of us, corporeal beigns. So it is perfectly correct for “the Son of Man” not to “know” everythig or be everything while, simultaneously, the Prince of Peace, God Allmighty (Isaiah 9:6), Be the I AM and Be with God and Be God (St. John 1:1)!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[prettytwinkles7]

Jesus did know He was the Son of the living God…but was truly humble. Thus, not needing nor wanting extra attention. In fact he did everything to avoid it except to his closest followers. All He wanted was to fulfill the Father’s will.

 

[TheObstinateAss]

Thanks, Stevin. I have a catechism that I am slowly reading through. I will read through those verses you posted. Thanks also to everyone else for the helpful replies.

 

[Stevin_Habba]

Hey no problem whatsoever <3 I hope you will be adding me on Facebook (if you have one), and if not, it was very nice to have met you.​

Stay strong in the faith and know that we have the answers to life’s toughest questions. But it will take much time, study, and meditation Go to Mass every Sunday, do not miss a single one, and see if you can start praying the rosary. It’s only 15 to 25 minutes and it works wonders =D

 

[jakasaki]

There are plenty of anti-Christianity sites on the net - but the biggest one the muslims use is answering Christianity dot org. ~ They read the stuff on there and come back to Christians with their challenges…

If you are not familiar with the site above, I’ll warn you - it’s quite vile what they say about Christians.

The quote below is from their site:

The Bible’s New Testament also records Jesus saying: ““Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good–except God alone.” (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)”

If Jesus doesn’t consider himself as “good”, then how can any sane person put him on the same level as GOD Almighty?

I have yet to see a good answer to this one by any polytheist trinitarian.

Also, another important point to notice in Mark 10:18 is the word “alone”: ““Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good–except God alone.” (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)”

Jesus in this verse is clearly giving exclusivity to GOD Almighty when he said “alone”. If Jesus was truly part of GOD Almighty and/or the trinity lie was true, then Jesus, to say the least, would not have said that.

 

[GraceSofia]

Mark 10:17-18 reads Luke 18:18-19 reads
A Muslim I was dialoguing with presented this as a proof that Jesus did not, in fact, believe He was God. How might a Catholic respond to this?

Just came across something useful for you:

Aut Deus aut Mendax – Either the Lord God, or a Liar. A Consideration of the Divinity of Jesus as the “Make or Break” Dogma by Msgr Charles Pope.

Never one to simply collapse under pressure or discouragement I took up the challenge to assemble the Biblical evidence as to Jesus’ Divinity. It is remarkably rich and consistent throughout all the New Testament Books as you shall see. In this article I give the scripture citations for the most part but cannot include most of the texts in the article since they are so numerous that they would eclipse the article itself. Perhaps at some point in the future I will publish a version with all the citations spelled out. For now, let these suffice to show forth a glorious Scriptural affirmation of the Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ. He is Lord.

The entire (very awesome) article addresses this!

 

[erock]

You guys are really struggling, to make this fit your current belief base. Although much of the Bible is written in a type of code, I’ll give you that, this seems to be very straight forward.

Accepting what it says may offer mankind an opportunity for spiritual growth; and a peek into his own divinity.

 

[jcrichton]

There are plenty of anti-Christianity sites on the net - but the biggest one the muslims use is answering Christianity dot org. ~ They read the stuff on there and come back to Christians with their challenges…

If you are not familiar with the site above, I’ll warn you - it’s quite vile what they say about Christians.

The quote below is from their site:

The Bible’s New Testament also records Jesus saying: ““Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good–except God alone.” (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)”

…the problem with dealing with such people is that they not only have tunnel vision but they lack depth in understanding anything that has not been predigested for their consumption…

…Jesus is not stating that He is not Good… rather He is “bringing it!”

When Scriptures are read in absence of Scriptures it is easy to come to the wrong conclusion–but when a person is seeking the wrong conclusion there’s nothing to be done (just stick a fork in it!); compare Scriptures’ adamant statement that there is none just not even one… yet, Christ is the Just One! (even demons cannot but acknowledge: “…we know who you are!”)

…the primise of the whole of the Old Testament is that Yahweh God Himself will come to the Temple: Jesus is that God-with-us (Immanuel)…

…as it was once coined: “ignorance of Scriptures is Ignorance of Christ!”

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

You guys are really struggling, to make this fit your current belief base. Although much of the Bible is written in a type of code, I’ll give you that, this seems to be very straight forward.

Accepting what it says may offer mankind an opportunity for spiritual growth; and a peek into his own divinity.

17 He was setting out on a journey when a man ran up, knelt before him and put this question to him, ‘Good master, what must I do to inherit eternal life?’ 18 Jesus said to him, 'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. (St. Mark 10:17-18)

18 One of the rulers put this question to him, ‘Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?’ 19 Jesus said to him, 'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. (St. Luke 18:18-19)

…so you believe what it says?

Then you have no problems with:

30 The Father and I are one. (St. John 10:30)

13 However, when the Spirit of truth comes he will lead you to the complete truth, since he will not be speaking of his own accord, but will say only what he has been told; and he will reveal to you the things to come. 14 He will glorify me, since all he reveals to you will be taken from what is mine. 15 Everything the Father has is mine; that is why I said: all he reveals to you will be taken from what is mine. (St. John 16:13-15)

2 Six days later, Jesus took with him Peter and James and John and led them up a high mountain on their own by themselves. There in their presence he was transfigured: 3 his clothes became brilliantly white, whiter than any earthly bleacher could make them. 4 Elijah appeared to them with Moses; and they were talking to Jesus. 5 Then Peter spoke to Jesus, ‘Rabbi,’ he said, ‘it is wonderful for us to be here; so let us make three shelters, one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.’ 6 He did not know what to say; they were so frightened.
7 And a cloud came, covering them in shadow; and from the cloud there came a voice, ‘This is my Son, the Beloved. Listen to him.’ (St. Mark 9:2-7)

1 At many moments in the past and by many means, God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets; but 2 in our time, the final days, he has spoken to us in the person of his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things and through whom he made the ages. 3 He is the reflection of God’s glory and bears the impress of God’s own being, sustaining all things by his powerful command; and now that he has purged sins away, he has taken his seat at the right hand of the divine Majesty on high. 4 So he is now as far above the angels as the title which he has inherited is higher than their own name. 5 To which of the angels, then, has God ever said: You are my Son, today I have fathered you, or: I shall be a father to him and he a son to me? 6 Again, when he brings the First-born into the world, he says: Let all the angels of God pay him homage. 7 To the angels, he says: appointing the winds his messengers and flames of fire his servants, 8 but to the Son he says: Your throne, God, is for ever and ever; and: the sceptre of his kingdom is a sceptre of justice; 9 you love uprightness and detest evil. This is why God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness, as none of your rivals. 10 And again: Long ago, Lord, you laid earth’s foundations, the heavens are the work of your hands. 11 They pass away but you remain, they all wear out like a garment. 12 Like a cloak you will roll them up, like a garment, and they will be changed. But you never alter and your years are unending. 13 To which of the angels has God ever said: Take your seat at my right hand till I have made your enemies your footstool? (Hebrews 1:1-13)

…you’ve convinced me JESUS IS GOD!

Maran atha!

Angel