How do I respond to people who question the church based on ...?

[steve_b]

I’d like to hear, er read , others’ ideas on how to best and most respectfully respond to people who object to Catholicism based on pedophile priests and the Church not being transparent about it, the Church not responding to Naziism in Germany during the 3rd Reich, corruption, and starting wars in the name of God…

If you’re still around, take a look at How Pius XII Protected Jews be sure and look at Rabbi Zolli’s conversion in this article

As far as pedophile priests, they should be prosecuted just as any other criminal. To my understanding they are now.

There is something that needs to be further said about this situation. There was a time a few decades ago when psychology thought they could cure a molestor of this disorder with intense therapy. And over time, that proved to be wrong. But the Church went by that current scientific opinion at the time, and got burned by it. And unfortunately children were harmed.

There is no excuse for cover up. There is no excuse for moving an offender around a diocese. The Church has paid dearly for those mistakes in many ways. Today, all kinds of organizations are looking at the Catholic Church as an example to follow, for it’s zero policy in handling this issue… There is one more thing to say. Some of those priests who were accused, were wrongly accused. That was also part of the tragedy. How does one unring THAT bell when a priest is falsly accused of that crime?

 

[buffalo]

Well, what did Jesus say? “Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you.” (Matthew 7:1)

I would say to such a person, “Don’t tell me what it is, but stop for a moment and think about the worst thing you’ve ever done.” I would let him think about it for a couple seconds, then add, “Now, how would you like to be judged solely on that? Instead of also on all the good you’ve done? Is that the way we’re supposed to judge? Just on the evil someone has done without looking at the good?”

We all tend to condemn others while excusing ourselves.

Judge Not… Especially if It’s Me

Phrases that have become very popular retorts in our culture are, “Don’t be judgmental,” “Who are you to judge me?” “Judge not, lest ye be judged,” and “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” These retorts are usually made by someone who just had their own sinful behavior pointed out. The person pointing out the sin is in turn vilified for being “judgmental.” Does this sound familiar? Have you been on the judging side or the judged side? Who is right in these situations?

This situation has its root in bad theology. Specifically, most believe that when Jesus said, “Judge not lest you be judged,” (Matthew 7:1) that He was teaching that we are not to judge, that He meant that you can’t tell someone that they are sinning (even if they are). This could not be further from the truth. Jesus is not telling us never to judge, but to judge fairly.

Listen to the rest of what Jesus said in context (verses 2-5): “For with the judgment you pronounce, you will be judged.” Jesus means that if you judge out of vengeance or with evil intent, God will judge you for this, but if you judge honestly and with good intentions, God’s judgment of you will reflect this too.’

**“The measure you give will be the measure you get” **(Luke 6:38). Here, Jesus is telling us that God’s judgment on us will depend on whether we use exaggerations and other dishonest means when we judge. If we judge with fairness and compassion, we will be judged the same way.

***“Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?” *** (Luke 6:41) Jesus wants to know why we point out the small sin of another, but pretend not to see our own greater sin.

more…

 

[Kay_Cee]

Judge Not… Especially if It’s Me

Phrases that have become very popular retorts in our culture are, “Don’t be judgmental,” “Who are you to judge me?” “Judge not, lest ye be judged,” and “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” These retorts are usually made by someone who just had their own sinful behavior pointed out. The person pointing out the sin is in turn vilified for being “judgmental.” Does this sound familiar? Have you been on the judging side or the judged side? Who is right in these situations?

This situation has its root in bad theology. Specifically, most believe that when Jesus said, “Judge not lest you be judged,” (Matthew 7:1) that He was teaching that we are not to judge, that He meant that you can’t tell someone that they are sinning (even if they are). This could not be further from the truth. Jesus is not telling us never to judge, but to judge fairly.

Listen to the rest of what Jesus said in context (verses 2-5): “For with the judgment you pronounce, you will be judged.” Jesus means that if you judge out of vengeance or with evil intent, God will judge you for this, but if you judge honestly and with good intentions, God’s judgment of you will reflect this too.’

“The measure you give will be the measure you get” (Luke 6:38). Here, Jesus is telling us that God’s judgment on us will depend on whether we use exaggerations and other dishonest means when we judge. If we judge with fairness and compassion, we will be judged the same way.

***“Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?” ***(Luke 6:41) Jesus wants to know why we point out the small sin of another, but pretend not to see our own greater sin.

more…

I think you totally misunderstood what I was trying to say. My point is that we should not judge each other soley by what one has done that is wrong.

A person who sees only what some members of the Church have wrongly done is hardly an impartial judge. Why is this person not seeing all the good the Church has done? Would he want to be judged solely on his wrongs? Would any of us want to be?

In fact, Luke 6:38 expresses what I was saying. If the measure we judge with looks soley at a person’s wrongs without taking any good into account, then the measure we will be judged with will look solely at our wrongs and not at any good we have done at all. And that is my point.

 

[buffalo]

I think you totally misunderstood what I was trying to say. My point is that we should not judge each other soley by what one has done that is wrong.

A person who sees only what some members of the Church have wrongly done is hardly an impartial judge. Why is this person not seeing all the good the Church has done? Would he want to be judged solely on his wrongs? Would any of us want to be?

In fact, Luke 6:38 expresses what I was saying. If the measure we judge with looks soley at a person’s wrongs without taking any good into account, then the measure we will be judged with will look solely at our wrongs and not at any good we have done at all. And that is my point.

My post and hopefully the rest was read is simply what is a very good treatment of judging. One of the best I have seen.