How do I respond to this pro abortion argument?

[tapiocapudding]

Should I even? I belong to another message board and a lady posted a thread saying ‘all prolifers need to read this’ about how when she was 9-12 she was raped by a relative. She didn’t get pregnant but had she, she said she would have had an abortion and dared anyone to tell her she shouldn’t have thought that.
I don’t want to go there because that is a terrible painful thing she went though. But everyone else is agreeing ‘yeah, that’s why I’m prochoice’
what can I say to address it sensitively while still standing up for life?

 

[puzzleannie]

since her story was based on what she would have done, frame your replay based on what you would do in a similar situation and why, rather than berating her.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

Should I even? I belong to another message board and a lady posted a thread saying ‘all prolifers need to read this’ about how when she was 9-12 she was raped by a relative. She didn’t get pregnant but had she, she said she would have had an abortion and dared anyone to tell her she shouldn’t have thought that.
I don’t want to go there because that is a terrible painful thing she went though. But everyone else is agreeing ‘yeah, that’s why I’m prochoice’
what can I say to address it sensitively while still standing up for life?

im not politic, so you would want to find a better phrasing for this, but here there bare point.

being raped does not give one permission to kill an innocent person.

morally an abortion for that reason would be no different than the victim picking some random person on the street and killing them for revenge.

the child would be innocent of any crime. furhter you may want to point out that pregnancy as a result of rape is exceedingly rare.

like i said i aint politic, so better phrasing is a requirement

 

[survive]

Abortion in such a case is the equivalent of killing one’s little brother or sister because s/he was in the room during a violent burglary and beating and reminds the big sister of the event. It’s not the baby’s fault. The baby didn’t do anything. The perpetrator should be punished, and no one else should be.

 

[williamric]

Should I even? I belong to another message board and a lady posted a thread saying ‘all prolifers need to read this’ about how when she was 9-12 she was raped by a relative. She didn’t get pregnant but had she, she said she would have had an abortion and dared anyone to tell her she shouldn’t have thought that.
I don’t want to go there because that is a terrible painful thing she went though. But everyone else is agreeing ‘yeah, that’s why I’m prochoice’
what can I say to address it sensitively while still standing up for life?

The circumstance is completely irrelevant in the abortion debate… Either, A - Abortion is wrong, or B - Abortion is not wrong…

It is illogical to say that you are for abortion in the case of rape by a relative but against abortion when pregnancy is caused by irresponsible sexual behaviour… If the fetus has value, then it has value regardless of the circumstances of its “arrival”…

This is just another attempt to bring emotionalism into a debate where it has no place.

I know rape is horrible, but anyone who takes out their problems on a fetus is weak and selfish… What we need to remember is that thousands of woman have kept a chlid from a rape… They are a shining example of the strength of woman, a shining example of what is possible when you put the welfare of others above your own problems. I know this sounds horrible, but its true, and I’m sorry for an offense caused.

 

[Danuska]

I know rape is horrible, but anyone who takes out their problems on a fetus is weak and selfish… What we need to remember is that thousands of woman have kept a chlid from a rape… They are a shining example of the strength of woman, a shining example of what is possible when you put the welfare of others above your own problems. I know this sounds horrible, but its true, and I’m sorry for an offense caused.

Yeah, anyone who does that is weak, but children usually are weak and a 12-year-old is weak and scared - should be obvious - especially if there is no one to support her.

I would just tell this woman to read the testimonies of those who have had abortions and suffer because of it. as the years would go by, she might start wondering what her child would be like, would it be a girl or boy, would it be naughty or not, would it look like her or … well, it’s hard to call the other person by the name of father. and one more thing - would she think that abortion would erase the trauma of what she had gone through? or would it just add to it? would killing a baby erase the problem altogether or make her more miserable for the rest of her life…

 

[williamric]

Yeah, anyone who does that is weak, but children usually are weak and a 12-year-old is weak and scared - should be obvious - especially if there is no one to support her.

Well in the context of this thread, we were talking about an adult saying that she was raped when she was young and that with her current (adult) mentality she would still have had an abortion…

1. As I have pointed out, this is an attempt to argue from emotionalism,
2. I was in no way trying to undermine the suffering that a young girl would go through in this circumstance, but ultimately from the age of reason, we should all know that taking out your problems on something else (a fetus) is a cop out… Note: I’m not saying its easy for these poor young girls, but Im not going to pretend its justifiable when its not.
3. This whole argument would carry alot more weight if it was young people that actually made it, not a bunch of old, hippy, liberals… (that was a joke btw, although still partly true)

I would just tell this woman to read the testimonies of those who have had abortions and suffer because of it. as the years would go by, she might start wondering what her child would be like, would it be a girl or boy, would it be naughty or not, would it look like her or … well, it’s hard to call the other person by the name of father. and one more thing - would she think that abortion would erase the trauma of what she had gone through? or would it just add to it? would killing a baby erase the problem altogether or make her more miserable for the rest of her life…

Good questions I guess…

 

[tapiocapudding]

See I totally agree with all of you, but if I say things like that I’ll come across as cruel and heartless and I won’t change anyone’s mind. My goal is to put across a prolife prospective which acknowledges the horror of a situation such as that one but stands up for life. I want to influence people, not turn them again me.
I mean if I were a 12 year old raped by a relative, I might think the same thing. I’ve never had that awful experience. I want to phrase it compassionately so those reading the debate can understand that while it’s important to be sensitive to an awful circumstance like that and not to blame the victim, a prochoice prospective still makes no sense because a fetus is a baby and the baby didn’t do anything wrong.
Telling an adult survivor of rape and incest that she’s weak certainly won’t help my cause.

 

[06convert]

Of all of the abortions in this country. Less than 1% of the reasons given are that of rape. That 1% is a darn silly reason to be in favor of across the board abortion rights.

At the end of the day God gave us free will and we will do what we will do. However, the misconception that an abortion would make everything ok, is wrong. An abortion adds to the already dire situation.

This may seem trivial by comparision, but it’s like having someone break into your car and leave a baby in the backseat. Yes you’ve been violated and you have to get your car fixed, but look, here is a baby awwww. You don’t kill the baby and throw it in the dumpster.

 

[BlestOne]

Tapioca… you start out with…I am sorry you were brutally attacked by someone you should have been able to trust. That is terrible/sad/criminal what that person did to you and they should have consequences for their behavior. Did you ever report it to someone and were they ever prosecuted? But a pregnancy resulting from such a circumstance can be a way of having good come from bad… An innocent child is not responsible for the crimes of the father. Many times when a woman is raped she feels hopeless and suicidal and a child gives her a reason to heal and go on. In fact, women who are impregnated as a result of rape and choose to have the baby most often heal faster than those who abort.

 

[williamric]

Telling an adult survivor of rape and incest that she’s weak certainly won’t help my cause.

Yeah, I didnt mean that you should say that to anyone…ever… Of course I would never to respond to someone who had been raped like that…My advice for talking to her was:

The circumstance is completely irrelevant in the abortion debate… Either, A - Abortion is wrong, or B - Abortion is not wrong…

It is illogical to say that you are for abortion in the case of rape by a relative but against abortion when pregnancy is caused by irresponsible sexual behaviour… If the fetus has value, then it has value regardless of the circumstances of its “arrival”…

The rest of what I said was just a rant… I really am sorry if it causes offense but I sincerely believe it is true… I cannot imagine how abortion is justified by rape, anymore then killing a murders brother is justified by murder…

Again, sorry for the confusion and no…Never ever tell a rape victim they are weak for getting an abortion

 

[survive]

My analogy is a lifeboat. You spend your childhood in a boatbuilding family, learning to make the ideal lifeboat. It has pontoons, strongboxes and a tiny hidey, and a parasol on top.
One day, you get your chance – you’re on a ship that sinks. You jump into your lifeboat and row in a straight line.
There’s no one at sea but you, and your cell phone is far out of range. Pirates surround you. They have children aboard, slaves, shackled and gagged.
They beat you unconscious. They take the strongboxes, ransack your supplies and speed away. When you come to, you see the little boy who struggled aboard your boat during the raid. He’s a toddler, and he seems hungry and thirsty.
Your rights include medical care, replacement of your stolen supplies, shelter, justice against the attackers, and safety from a similar attack. They most definitely do not include shoving the boy overboard into the brine to perish alone, nor is it likely in your interest to do so, even if in a moment’s panic you feel tempted to do it. He is innocent, as are you, and he can be your ally if you will give him a chance. Violence is terrible. We who have experienced it know this very clearly. That’s why we know (after some years to think it over at least) it’s not acceptable and not healing to contribute more violence to the world.

 

[estesbob]

I think the most strightforward answer is no one should be punished for the sins of their Father

 

[iamme]

Abortion in such a case is the equivalent of killing one’s little brother or sister because s/he was in the room during a violent burglary and beating and reminds the big sister of the event. It’s not the baby’s fault. The baby didn’t do anything. The perpetrator should be punished, and no one else should be.

im sorry, but that is the most ridiculous analogy i have ever heard.
to get pregnant is a choice, and it is a decision that should be made after serious consideration, even tho in this day and age, it isnt always the case. when raped, you have all choice and control taken from you. perhaps this girl NEVER wanted to have a child, in any case whatsoever. what i find odd is that she wasnt given the morning after pill by the hospital, as is standard procedure, but with the op being as vague as it was, we wont know. while i applaud those who would keep the baby if they were to get pregnant after being thrown to the ground, beaten, and then violated in the cruelest of ways, i would never think that getting an abortion is unreasonable in that case.

however, in response to the op, unless youre just wanting to argue, i wouldnt respond at all, and remove myself from the discussion.

 

[survive]

im sorry, but that is the most ridiculous analogy i have ever heard.
to get pregnant is a choice, and it is a decision that should be made after serious consideration, even tho in this day and age, it isnt always the case. when raped, you have all choice and control taken from you. perhaps this girl NEVER wanted to have a child, in any case whatsoever. what i find odd is that she wasnt given the morning after pill by the hospital, as is standard procedure, but with the op being as vague as it was, we wont know. while i applaud those who would keep the baby if they were to get pregnant after being thrown to the ground, beaten, and then violated in the cruelest of ways, i would never think that getting an abortion is unreasonable in that case.

These points are exactly what makes my analogy precisely appropriate to the situation.
Case 1: She didn’t want the child.
Case 2: She didn’t wnat the child.
Case 1: The child didn’t commit a crime, someone else did.
Case 2: The child didn’t commit a crime, someone else did.
Case 1: The victim is innocent and needs help and therapy.
Case 2: The victim is innocent and needs help and therapy.
Case 1: The child is a strain on an already traumatized and frightened victim.
Case 2: The child is a strain on an already traumatized and frightened victim.
In both cases, the circumstances are the same for all relevant purposes. It is only by engaging in deep denial of an obvious fact of biology that the moral imperatives can be made to look different between the two cases. Acknowledging the reality of the child, a simple fact, erases the apparent difference.

 

[phil8888]

Should I even? I belong to another message board and a lady posted a thread saying ‘all prolifers need to read this’ about how when she was 9-12 she was raped by a relative. She didn’t get pregnant but had she, she said she would have had an abortion and dared anyone to tell her she shouldn’t have thought that.
I don’t want to go there because that is a terrible painful thing she went though. But everyone else is agreeing ‘yeah, that’s why I’m prochoice’
what can I say to address it sensitively while still standing up for life?

she was raped. that’s a fact. having an abortion would not change that. it would only make 2 tragedies where first there was only 1. not only was she raped, she’s have blood on her hands.

the baby could bring joy and make it happier and he/she would be the silver lining.

 

[iamme]

she was raped. that’s a fact. having an abortion would not change that. it would only make 2 tragedies where first there was only 1. not only was she raped, she’s have blood on her hands.

the baby could bring joy and make it happier and he/she would be the silver lining.

and it maight get treated like it was the result of a rape, and be neglected, or beaten and live on to become a horrible human being. why do you insist on playing “what ifs”?

and having an abortion would not change the fact that she was raped, true, but it would give her some of the control she lost back, and it would mean that she is no longer pregnant because someone forced her to become pregnant.

just a question here. how many of you have been raped?

 

[survive]

and it maight get treated like it was the result of a rape, and be neglected, or beaten and live on to become a horrible human being. why do you insist on playing “what ifs”?

Because the only possible scenario that could justify killing a human being is self-defense, and thinking you will probably be miserable with someone in your life doesn’t make grounds for self-defense.
Nor will thinking he or she will be miserable.

and having an abortion would not change the fact that she was raped, true, but it would give her some of the control she lost back, and it would mean that she is no longer pregnant because someone forced her to become pregnant.

Abortion doesn’t give her back any control. The existence of the baby is a fact even after the baby dies. To be the mother of a baby who died before birth is not comparable to never being pregnant at all.

just a question here. how many of you have been raped?

Me.

 

[estesbob]

and it maight get treated like it was the result of a rape, and be neglected, or beaten and live on to become a horrible human being. why do you insist on playing “what ifs”?

and having an abortion would not change the fact that she was raped, true, but it would give her some of the control she lost back, and it would mean that she is no longer pregnant because someone forced her to become pregnant.

just a question here. how many of you have been raped?

\

Just a question-how many of us were once in the womb?

 

[iamme]

Because the only possible scenario that could justify killing a human being is self-defense, and thinking you will probably be miserable with someone in your life doesn’t make grounds for self-defense.
Nor will thinking he or she will be miserable.
Abortion doesn’t give her back any control. The existence of the baby is a fact even after the baby dies. To be the mother of a baby who died before birth is not comparable to never being pregnant at all. Me.

not everyone here agrees with your first point, and in that same paragraph, you completely missed my point.
rejecting something that has been forced on you through means (means youve lived through) indeed gives you back control and power.
and this topic is obviously lost on all of you who cant even concede that an embryo is not a baby, a fetus could be considered a baby, but just as easily might not be, and those who wont accept that after the sperm has entered the body, for the next 72 hours, using medication to block the egg from fertilizing isnt abortion.
im beyond done with this.

and im truly sorry about your rape, and im saddened further that you would try to deny that anything i said could be true in regards to it.