How do I respond to this?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Silyosha
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Silyosha

Guest
Today, while I was in art, some guys at my table, who are very anti-religious, started talking about how Christianity apparently has roots in all these other religions and how Jesus is a “copy” of “sun gods” from other religions, such as in Egyptology. (According to them, this sun god called Horus was born of a virgin, was crucified, etc. Whatever. :rolleyes: ) They mentioned how Christ’s resurrection is related to the cycle of the sun and all this stuff. Of course, I know this to be completely false, but what would be a good way to respond to this? Can someone explain this away for me? Thanks.
 
This is an example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.

C. S. Lewis has a better explanation.

The gentiles were not totally out of the loop about what God was going to do in the Incarnation to save mankind. But these promises and prophecies got distorted. Only the Jews kept them pure, as far as they went.
 
CS Lewis to the rescue, once again! 😉 Lewis believed that all “real” pagan religions point to God.

And the existence of pagan myths which appear similar to Christianity and yet pre-date Christianity is just the phenomenon of men recognizing (albeit vaguely) a fundamental truth in the natural law and creating a myth around it to make it easier to understand.

Also, Lewis believed that perhaps some of these pagan myths were even God’s way of introducing the concept of Christ the Redeemer to the world; to help prepare in men a capacity to worship the one true God when He was ready to reveal Himself in the Incarnation.
 
Today, while I was in art, some guys at my table, who are very anti-religious, started talking about how Christianity apparently has roots in all these other religions and how Jesus is a “copy” of “sun gods” from other religions, such as in Egyptology. (According to them, this sun god called Horus was born of a virgin, was crucified, etc. Whatever. :rolleyes: ) They mentioned how Christ’s resurrection is related to the cycle of the sun and all this stuff. Of course, I know this to be completely false, but what would be a good way to respond to this? Can someone explain this away for me? Thanks.
I must add that some of this is made up and some of it is exagerrated and overblown, some pagans purposefully rewrite the stories to seem as close as possible to be like Christianity.
 
I know this to be completely false, but what would be a good way to respond to this?.
I would just insist that those stories weren’t enough to make me let my religion go! That is why it is often said that Christianity is a matter of faith.
 
Today, while I was in art, some guys at my table, who are very anti-religious, started talking about how Christianity apparently has roots in all these other religions and how Jesus is a “copy” of “sun gods” from other religions, such as in Egyptology. (According to them, this sun god called Horus was born of a virgin, was crucified, etc. Whatever. :rolleyes: ) They mentioned how Christ’s resurrection is related to the cycle of the sun and all this stuff. Of course, I know this to be completely false, but what would be a good way to respond to this? Can someone explain this away for me? Thanks.
Well, if they are protestants, ask them if they believe in the Bible. If they say yes, then please point out to them that the Jews did not believe in sun gods or the Egyptian religion but the one true God.

If they are just religion haters, just say that they are in error because Christ was born as a human being in the world, comes from the Jewish God, and actually died by torture. So, how they can equate this with pagan sun gods is beyond my comprehension.
 
C.S. Lewis might have said it too, but I believe it was St. Justin Martyr who said it first. 🙂
 
Today, while I was in art, some guys at my table, who are very anti-religious, started talking about how Christianity apparently has roots in all these other religions and how Jesus is a “copy” of “sun gods” from other religions, such as in Egyptology. (According to them, this sun god called Horus was born of a virgin, was crucified, etc. Whatever. :rolleyes: ) They mentioned how Christ’s resurrection is related to the cycle of the sun and all this stuff. Of course, I know this to be completely false, but what would be a good way to respond to this? Can someone explain this away for me? Thanks.
Tell them to study their history !
Christianity has MANY things that separate it from any other religion or myth.
That the man Jesus Christ was a real historical figure is easily supported both within the Bible and in many other corroborating documents from this time in history. Some of these accounts were written as early as 20-30 years after the events they record, well within the lifetime of eyewitnesses to those events, discounting any claims that they are legends which grew over the centuries since the man Jesus walked the earth.
That Jesus was a real person is certainly well documented. Mention of Him and some of what he did can be found in other historical works and documents from NT times. The Jewish and Roman documents of the time record facts about Him which correlate with biblical accounts. Neither the Jews, nor the Romans, nor any serious present-day historians deny the fact of His historical existence as a real person.
Islam’s Koran and Judaism’s Torah both discuss the person, Jesus Christ, although not always in a nice way !
NO honest Historian will deny this.

What remains is the question of His true identity. WHO was He ?
Think about that one for a while, ask them to think about it too…
 
According to them, this sun god called Horus was born of a virgin, was crucified, etc. Whatever.
If they bring this up again, you should bring up to them that Horus is normally considered the son of Isis and Osiris, and not born from a virgin birth. At least, its one of the tellings. The Egyptians redid their myths a few times, merging their gods more than once.
 
I am always astonished to read and hear so often denunciations of the Judeo-Christian tradition because of parallels to ancient Near-Eastern myths.

For example:

The story of Noah is very similar to the Babylonian epic of Gilgamesh.

Obviously Christianity is wrong.

What!? That is a logical leap that has nothing on the other side. You can very easily say that because of the two being similar, the Babylonians must be wrong.

The better answer is that much of the Old Testament stories and Old Testament prophecies, nay, ALL OF THEM did not exist in a vacuum. The Canaanites, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Hittites, the Greeks, the Phoenicians, the Egyptians, the Nubians, etc. etc. etc. all existed in (relatively) the same era of human history. Stories were shared, as most of these people for quite a long time were predominantly illiterate and therefor relied extensively on oral tradition. What happens when a really good story is told around a campfire? You take it back to your people and recount it and it eventually finds its way into your literary tradition. Distortions are common in order to make it more accessible to one’s people, and to ensure that it, being a really really good story, is maintained.

Prophesies would likewise have been repeated over and over again as a form of “future story telling” in lands outside Israel where local iconography and symbolism would have been incorporated. Naturally, this argument extends to Israel as well, where stories and prophesies originating outside Israel found their way into the spiritual canon of the Israelites. Does this mean that these prophecies are false? Absolutely not. God works by providence, and I refuse to believe that God would have restricted entirely prophecies concerning the Messiah as savior of all mankind to the Israelites alone. As such, stories necessary to ensure that Christ’s Church could establish itself outside the nation of Israel would have been inspired in non-Israelite cultures and would of course been heard by Israelite merchants and brought back to the home fire. Few anthropologists and theologians believe that such figures as Abraham, Noah, Isaac, etc. were actual people in the sense that their stories are contemporaneous accounts of those people. But it is important to remember that, just as Odysseus may not have actually existed, there is truth behind the story and the embellishment, and the morals and purposes of the stories are not diminished but enhanced.

Anthropology is your friend in such conversations, Silyosha, where the virulent anti-Christians try to play off their anti-stance as “intelligence,” especially when there are tons of National Geographics available that discuss this very phenomenon. 👍
 
Today, while I was in art, some guys at my table, who are very anti-religious, started talking about how Christianity apparently has roots in all these other religions and how Jesus is a “copy” of “sun gods” from other religions, such as in Egyptology. (According to them, this sun god called Horus was born of a virgin, was crucified, etc. Whatever. :rolleyes: ) They mentioned how Christ’s resurrection is related to the cycle of the sun and all this stuff. Of course, I know this to be completely false, but what would be a good way to respond to this? Can someone explain this away for me? Thanks.
Throughout Egyptian, Persian, Greek and Roman Mythology we have the story of the Father god taking a human virgin wife who gives birth to a son. The child is born in humble circumstances but with great signs and wonders. We are not told of the childhood of the boy but the story meets up with him again in adulthood. The son performs miracles and services and in the end of the story he dies sacrificing himself for the good of mankind. He then goes up and rejoins his god father. Does this sound somewhat familiar? The Tanach, which in addition to being a recounting of the history of the Jews is also a polemic. God whose name is made up of the Hebrew verbs was-is-will be - is eternal - as opposed to pagan mythological stories we are not told of His birth and His coming into existence as He has always existed.
 
Tell them to stop watching Zeitgeist
I had to quote this for Truth.

I can’t help but think that’s where these people are getting their information from.

Silyosha, if these adversaries are going along the nonsense of “sun” being similar to “son”, so obviously, due to the similarity of the English words, Jesus must really be a “sun-god”.

Of course this is just complete poppy-cock when you factor in that the Latin words for sun and son are translated as sol and filius respectively.

Even the Hebrew characters are different for those words. There is absolutely no way a person can mess this up unless he or she is being purposefully dishonest or has no idea what he or she is talking about.

The equivalent of what these people are claiming would be if I accused the ancient Egyptians ripping off the ancient Mayans because they both built pyramids and deified nature.
 
Today, while I was in art, some guys at my table, who are very anti-religious, started talking about how Christianity apparently has roots in all these other religions and how Jesus is a “copy” of “sun gods” from other religions, such as in Egyptology. (According to them, this sun god called Horus was born of a virgin, was crucified, etc. Whatever. :rolleyes: ) They mentioned how Christ’s resurrection is related to the cycle of the sun and all this stuff. Of course, I know this to be completely false, but what would be a good way to respond to this? Can someone explain this away for me? Thanks.
They are making the statement, shouldn’t it be they who do the fact checking? I’d ask them to provide the primary sources. If they only provide hearsay or unsubstantiated accusation, then I would tell them they are going to have to do better scholarship.
 
Throughout Egyptian, Persian, Greek and Roman Mythology we have the story of the Father god taking a human virgin wife who gives birth to a son. The child is born in humble circumstances but with great signs and wonders. We are not told of the childhood of the boy but the story meets up with him again in adulthood. The son performs miracles and services and in the end of the story he dies sacrificing himself for the good of mankind. He then goes up and rejoins his god father. Does this sound somewhat familiar? The Tanach, which in addition to being a recounting of the history of the Jews is also a polemic. God whose name is made up of the Hebrew verbs was-is-will be - is eternal - as opposed to pagan mythological stories we are not told of His birth and His coming into existence as He has always existed.
If you are referring to Jesus Christ here, you are partially correct.
In unity with the Father and the Holy Spirit, He has always existed in the Almighty Triune God .
As the God-Man, Jesus Christ entered our history at the time of His birth, when He chose to exist in human flesh. Since then Christ exists as true God and true Man.
 
I am always astonished to read and hear so often denunciations of the Judeo-Christian tradition because of parallels to ancient Near-Eastern myths.

For example:

The story of Noah is very similar to the Babylonian epic of Gilgamesh.

Obviously Christianity is wrong.

What!? That is a logical leap that has nothing on the other side. You can very easily say that because of the two being similar, the Babylonians must be wrong.

The better answer is that much of the Old Testament stories and Old Testament prophecies, nay, ALL OF THEM did not exist in a vacuum. The Canaanites, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Hittites, the Greeks, the Phoenicians, the Egyptians, the Nubians, etc. etc. etc. all existed in (relatively) the same era of human history. Stories were shared, as most of these people for quite a long time were predominantly illiterate and therefor relied extensively on oral tradition. What happens when a really good story is told around a campfire? You take it back to your people and recount it and it eventually finds its way into your literary tradition. Distortions are common in order to make it more accessible to one’s people, and to ensure that it, being a really really good story, is maintained.

Prophesies would likewise have been repeated over and over again as a form of “future story telling” in lands outside Israel where local iconography and symbolism would have been incorporated. Naturally, this argument extends to Israel as well, where stories and prophesies originating outside Israel found their way into the spiritual canon of the Israelites. Does this mean that these prophecies are false? Absolutely not. God works by providence, and I refuse to believe that God would have restricted entirely prophecies concerning the Messiah as savior of all mankind to the Israelites alone. As such, stories necessary to ensure that Christ’s Church could establish itself outside the nation of Israel would have been inspired in non-Israelite cultures and would of course been heard by Israelite merchants and brought back to the home fire. Few anthropologists and theologians believe that such figures as Abraham, Noah, Isaac, etc. were actual people in the sense that their stories are contemporaneous accounts of those people. But it is important to remember that, just as Odysseus may not have actually existed, there is truth behind the story and the embellishment, and the morals and purposes of the stories are not diminished but enhanced.

Anthropology is your friend in such conversations, Silyosha, where the virulent anti-Christians try to play off their anti-stance as “intelligence,” especially when there are tons of National Geographics available that discuss this very phenomenon. 👍
Yes, that’s a logical argument. I’ve thought about the Gilgamesh anology myself, and it actually strengthens my belief in Christianity. But in any case, I do think it’s important to remember the fact that many of these groups of people existed in the same relative time frame. Thanks for your reply.
 
I had to quote this for Truth.

I can’t help but think that’s where these people are getting their information from.

Silyosha, if these adversaries are going along the nonsense of “sun” being similar to “son”, so obviously, due to the similarity of the English words, Jesus must really be a “sun-god”.

Of course this is just complete poppy-cock when you factor in that the Latin words for sun and son are translated as sol and filius respectively.

Even the Hebrew characters are different for those words. There is absolutely no way a person can mess this up unless he or she is being purposefully dishonest or has no idea what he or she is talking about.

The equivalent of what these people are claiming would be if I accused the ancient Egyptians ripping off the ancient Mayans because they both built pyramids and deified nature.
It is usually that they have no idea what they are talking about.
So many are led astray by the fog of lies and noise we live in.
It’s a wonder anyone can hear the truth at all.

Make no mistake about it: these events and times are here to confuse, bewilder, baffle, befuddle & nervously excite you so that your head spins and the scream of the chaos keeps you from hearing the “still, small voice” of the Holy Spirit.

 
Also, the Egyptology reference is completely wrong: Horus was not the child of a virgin, but of Isis (mother) and Osiris (father).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top