How do I talk to a priest about a problem he created?

[joseph_virgen]

The true foundation of the church is the Nazarene, Peter simply is the caretaker. Knowingly: 'feed my sheep" .

This is not a question of what came first, the chicken or the egg? We know who came first.

All teachings come from the Nazarene.

As for the infallibility of the pope and the church, others far better with words have taken that statement to task, from theologians to philosophers and still no resolution. I only add that old sayinga: power corrupts, absoute power corrupts absolutely.

 

[kikyo]

The true foundation of the church is the Nazarene, Peter simply is the caretaker. Knowingly: 'feed my sheep" .

This is not a question of what came first, the chicken or the egg? We know who came first.

All teachings come from the Nazarene.

As for the infallibility of the pope and the church, others far better with words have taken that statement to task, from theologians to philosophers and still no resolution. I only add that old sayinga: power corrupts, absoute power corrupts absolutely.

What a surprise, you still avoid the issue latinmasslover raised.

Research the early Church, the writings of those who knew Jesus and the Apostles. If you wish to continue your own path by picking and choosing which of His words you will accept, by all means, go ahead. Satan uses Scripture to His advantage, not unlike Protestantism. If you’re interested in being right, that’s your problem. If you want the Truth, take the time to study rather than spouting false rhetoric. Jesus told us to follow the Apostles, and in the book of Acts it’s made clear that we follow those who succeed the Apostles.

Where in the Bible does the Nazarene say to obey the Scriptures (only) over the Church? According to the Bible, what is the pillar and foundation of truth? I do recall the Lord saying that to oppose those He’s sent is to oppose Him, and to oppose Him is to oppose the Father. He tells us to obey the Church, the Church didn’t make it up like you would like to believe.

Yes, there is corruption. So what? You forget that among the 12 the Lord chose to succeed Him were St. Peter (who tried to turn Him away from His Mission, who denied Him THREE times, and who later had to be rebuked by a subordinate bishop) and who else? Judas, the one who betrayed the Lord. There was corruption from the beginning, and to attack the Church because it still exists is dim-witted.

Are you Mormon? Only the LDS community (as far as I know) teaches that Jesus was a moron that can’t keep a church together. If you want to continue bashing the Church because every member isn’t a god, then the you really ought to consider mormonism. There, Jesus doesn’t know what He’s talking about, is mistaken, or lied, and you can one day become His equal. A nice idea, but so is Neverland.

 

[joseph_virgen]

On numerous times the church taught what was their truth. The world being the center of the Universe comes readily to mind. Hence, humanity’s special status with God. If anything, the church is to be admired because it it takes the extrodinary step in admitting wrongdoing.
As for the infallibility of the pope and subsequent teachings, let us remember that the early church fathers always stated that they were merely men, as you and me, not to be adored in any way. That was to be left to God and his beloved son.

 

[latinmasslover]

On numerous times the church taught what was their truth. The world being the center of the Universe comes readily to mind. Hence, humanity’s special status with God. If anything, the church is to be admired because it it takes the extrodinary step in admitting wrongdoing.
As for the infallibility of the pope and subsequent teachings, let us remember that the early church fathers always stated that they were merely men, as you and me, not to be adored in any way. That was to be left to God and his beloved son.

Who adores the Pope? “He who hears you hears Me…he who rejects you rejects Me…” do these infallible words of Jesus ring a bell?

The Church is infallible in FAITH AND MORALS, period! Being wrong about the rotation of the earth and sun proves nothing. I’d be interested in hearig contradictory *infallible *statements (as in not the personal opinion of some popes).

The early Church Fathers also taught the primacy of Peter…you can’t pick and choose what to accept, like many do with the Bible.

My only point: please back up your accusations against the Church with some quotes.

 

[joseph_virgen]

“He who hears you, hears me.,…he who rejects you, rejects me.” What a wondrous teaching! In truth, it stands for all the teachings from the Nazarene. Unbeknowest to you, you have made my point.

When one speaks of faith and morality, one cannot escape the conclusion that acts must follow, righteous acts. Consequently where was the Nazarene’s teachings when the church stood by the political selection of popes, the Holy Wars, and the Inquisition. Why did it not denounce Hitler’s war machine. I could go on and on, up to the genocide in Rwanda.

If the church is truly free from error in these teachings, faith and morality, then why did our beloved pope, John Paul II, asked in March 2000 from all those, past and present, who suffered at the hands of the church, for forgiveness. Asking for forgiveness is an act of culpability.

Truth being, our beloved John Paul II did not share in the infallibility of the church, and that is the beauty of the church, it evolves. Nobody is perfect, as nobody is without sin. The teachings are perfect, but the means sometimes become clouded with self interest.

 

[latinmasslover]

“He who hears you, hears me.,…he who rejects you, rejects me.” What a wondrous teaching! In truth, it stands for all the teachings from the Nazarene. Unbeknowest to you, you have made my point.

When one speaks of faith and morality, one cannot escape the conclusion that acts must follow, righteous acts. Consequently where was the Nazarene’s teachings when the church stood by the political selection of popes, the Holy Wars, and the Inquisition. Why did it not denounce Hitler’s war machine. I could go on and on, up to the genocide in Rwanda.

If the church is truly free from error in these teachings, faith and morality, then why did our beloved pope, John Paul II, asked in March 2000 from all those, past and present, who suffered at the hands of the church, for forgiveness. Asking for forgiveness is an act of culpability.

Truth being, our beloved John Paul II did not share in the infallibility of the church, and that is the beauty of the church, it evolves. Nobody is perfect, as nobody is without sin. The teachings are perfect, but the means sometimes become clouded with self interest.

“He who hears you hears Me…” proves your point only in LaLa Land. Context, buddy, context.

Faith and morality. The Church cannot err when defining a matter of faith or morals. Nobody is perfect, the pope inculded. We sin, he sins as well. Does anyone you know practice Christanity perfectly? My assumption is no. Making a bad political move is just that: a bad politcal move. It has no bearing on the infallibility of the Church in matters where She is promised safety.

I have not read the apologies given by the pope, but they said one of two things:

1. Sorry for the abuses, or
2. Sorry the Church didn’t sit by and do nothing.
   If it’s the second, then that just proves that popes are not perfect. I myself have made apologies for words/acts that were not wrong, to my shame, in order to “keep the peace.” John Paul II overdid it in this regard. He did many good things, but evangelism was obviously not his forte. Well intentioned, but nevertheless…

The teachings of the Church (actual dogma) are the teachings of Jesus Christ. You are right, they are perfect. Therefore they do not change, ever.

Again, please show two contradictory teachings, not contradictory opinions of matters not protected by the Holy Ghost.