How do I talk to my boyfriend about porn? :(

[runningdude]

If number 4 on your list is true, then simply start the conversation…

Just because you’ve put a year and a half into a relationship is not alone a reason to keep going. Love is something you choose to do, independent of circumstances!

 

[Happy_B]

Hi TMO,

You say that ‘‘The big problem is that being a person who’s not in the faith, it’s much more difficult to talk about this with him, and it’s more likely that he won’t recognize it as a problem.’’

You could talk to him from a ‘scientific point of view’. There is a actually a very new research proving for the first time that the addiction to pornography damages the frontal lobe in the brain with consequences in cognitive functions. The research shows for the first time what the effects are on the brain functioning and every day behaviour caused by addiction to pornography. I recommend having a look at these videos that make thousands of guys who are addicted to pornography voluntarily and readily start a journey of abstinence. It is actually mind blowing and everyone struggling with pornography and masturbation should look into this:

The demise of guys? - 4:47 min video:
youtube.com/watch?v=FMJgZ4s2E3w

The Great porn experiment - TED talk on symptoms of porn users:
youtube.com/watch?v=vTD_itXrR6E#t=486

Your brain on porn - part 1:
youtube.com/watch?v=aS9vumF6JMU

 

[EasterJoy]

Even secular women know that this is not a topic for “conversation”. If they find pornography an insult to women in general or even a personal affront, they make their standard known and brook no negotiations. When the topic comes up, they do not fail to make their opposition known quite clearly. They don’t equivocate or make these things a matter of opinion! The same goes for drunkenness, offensive forms of humor, offenses against common courtesy, and the like. If you’ll not have it, say so, and once you’ve drawn the line, stand firm.

Now, with pornography as with excessive drinking, it does not hurt to admit that these can become compulsive behaviors that can prove difficult to stop once made a habit. That does not make them “natural,” but only pernicious. Compassion is in order for those who sincerely want to break these habits, but the resolve to break either of these habits is necessary. The lack of it is a deal-breaker.

As for the willingness to be fully observant, it is a good thing that it is growing. Don’t agree to marry him until it is a demonstrated habit that he seems very unlikely to give up when laziness tempts him later in life. Catholic children need two parents who fulfill their religious duties willingly and with gratitude instead of with chafing or resentment. If he is not talking marriage, it is up to you to decide whether to keep fishing or to cut bait. Certainly early adulthood is a very common time to suffer a limited period of sloth. Many people do reform themselves and keep to it ever after, in part because of the good influence of their spouses and families but also because they realize how much they missed by letting themselves go. If he expresses resentment about having to go to Mass every week, don’t try to remake him. Find someone who will put himself the harness with you gladly, so that you won’t always being the one dragging him along, instead of being a mutual encouragement to each other.

 

[kbachler]

Your big issue is not your non-practicing boyfriend, but his possible use of porn. You need to straight up confront him, and find out for sure if he is or not. If he is not, then he sounds like a pretty good choice for a husband. If he is watching porn, then this relationship will go nowhere in the end, unless he chooses to and does the work to stop.

Do talk to him - I would suggest that you avoid making it a confrontation or of judging him. You have a discomfort, so state that and state why its important to you. State it clearly, tell him how you feel. Don’t harangue.

Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not saying make it ok, but no threats, no ultimatums, etc. Talk about how you feel, how it makes you feel. Be honest. If you feel like it devalues you and what you intend to give him, tell him that. Let him grow and come to the decision, don’t force it on him.

Also, delineate the lines. When is it porn, and when isn’t it? How racy can a “mainstream” movie get before you personally consider it porn? (Frankly, I’ve always had more significant issue with gratuitous violence in movies.) Is “In the Name of the Rose” porn? “Victor Victoria”? etc.?

Discussing it and communicating about it calmly and openly is much more likely to lead to better communication and mutual decisions that last.

Fret less, express more. Don’t demand, but be clear in what is important to you.

 

[EasterJoy]

Do talk to him - I would suggest that you avoid making it a confrontation or of judging him. You have a discomfort, so state that and state why its important to you. State it clearly, tell him how you feel. Don’t harangue.

Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not saying make it ok, but no threats, no ultimatums, etc. Talk about how you feel, how it makes you feel. Be honest. If you feel like it devalues you and what you intend to give him, tell him that. Let him grow and come to the decision, don’t force it on him.

Also, delineate the lines. When is it porn, and when isn’t it? How racy can a “mainstream” movie get before you personally consider it porn? (Frankly, I’ve always had more significant issue with gratuitous violence in movies.) Is “In the Name of the Rose” porn? “Victor Victoria”? etc.?

Discussing it and communicating about it calmly and openly is much more likely to lead to better communication and mutual decisions that last.

Fret less, express more. Don’t demand, but be clear in what is important to you.

Actually, while I agree that the conversation must be kept respectful and calm, that the person you’re talking to must not be subjected to accusations, contempt, or personal attacks, I would go so far as to frame this in terms that make it clear that it is non-negotiable. That pretty much makes it a demand, albeit one put in diplomatic terms. Make it clear you won’t tolerate porn, and you particularly won’t tolerate using porn and then lying about it. If he says it will take work to stop, fine. If he can’t take those terms and believes he has some right to read things that minors can’t buy, it is time to respectfully let him find the door.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

My experience may be a bit different, because we’re coming from different worldviews, but I had to have this conversation with my husband when we were dating as well.

I’m going to preface this by saying that I have no problem with pornography in general, and I don’t have an issue when single people, or people in relationships where their significant other doesn’t care, use it. However, in my romantic relationships, pornography is a deal-breaker. That’s my personal standard and not something that I could bend on.

When my husband and I started dating, we were both pretty upfront about our porn use. I didn’t care that he used it, because as we were newly dating, I didn’t believe that it was any of my business at that point. But when we got serious I brought the issue up to him. I didn’t frame it as a “You will stop this now” sort of thing. Rather, I talked about what our relationship meant to me, where I saw it going, what place I wanted him to have in my life, and what place I wanted to have in his. Porn was actually only a very small part of this conversation. But, when we started talking about intimacy I told him that I hadn’t used pornography in a long time because we were at the point where I felt that I needed to be exclusively focused on him in every respect if we were going to work towards marriage. I asked him if he would be willing to give me the same commitment. He didn’t really understand why it was a big deal to me, but he was touched by my gesture (even though he did insist that I should look at porn whenever I wanted). I told him that when we’re just dating it’s one thing, but that I didn’t want to be committed to someone who would tell me they loved me every day while seeking out other women whenever the urge struck. He really disagreed with this perspective, and he still does, but he saw how much it meant to me and how hurt I would be if he tried to move our relationship forward with pornography in the picture. So that was it, he gave it up.

This was a couple of years ago. Since then, when pornography comes up in media or is mentioned by someone else, I make it a point to tell my husband how much I appreciate him giving it up without ever making me feel guilty, how much my self-esteem and self-confidence has improved, and how much better I feel that our sex life is now. He loves being thanked for it, and he always points out that giving up porn was easily well worth it for a better sex life and for me to be happier. So although we disagree, he has chosen to protect my feelings over indulging in porn. That’s actually what a big part of marriage is; being willing to put aside your own wants for the sake of protecting your spouse’s feelings.

 

[kbachler]

My experience may be a bit different, because we’re coming from different worldviews, but I had to have this conversation with my husband when we were dating as well.

I’m going to preface this by saying that I have no problem with pornography in general, and I don’t have an issue when single people, or people in relationships where their significant other doesn’t care, use it. However, in my romantic relationships, pornography is a deal-breaker. That’s my personal standard and not something that I could bend on.

When my husband and I started dating, we were both pretty upfront about our porn use. I didn’t care that he used it, because as we were newly dating, I didn’t believe that it was any of my business at that point. But when we got serious I brought the issue up to him. I didn’t frame it as a “You will stop this now” sort of thing. Rather, I talked about what our relationship meant to me, where I saw it going, what place I wanted him to have in my life, and what place I wanted to have in his. Porn was actually only a very small part of this conversation. But, when we started talking about intimacy I told him that I hadn’t used pornography in a long time because we were at the point where I felt that I needed to be exclusively focused on him in every respect if we were going to work towards marriage. I asked him if he would be willing to give me the same commitment. He didn’t really understand why it was a big deal to me, but he was touched by my gesture (even though he did insist that I should look at porn whenever I wanted). I told him that when we’re just dating it’s one thing, but that I didn’t want to be committed to someone who would tell me they loved me every day while seeking out other women whenever the urge struck. He really disagreed with this perspective, and he still does, but he saw how much it meant to me and how hurt I would be if he tried to move our relationship forward with pornography in the picture. So that was it, he gave it up.

This was a couple of years ago. Since then, when pornography comes up in media or is mentioned by someone else, I make it a point to tell my husband how much I appreciate him giving it up without ever making me feel guilty, how much my self-esteem and self-confidence has improved, and how much better I feel that our sex life is now. He loves being thanked for it, and he always points out that giving up porn was easily well worth it for a better sex life and for me to be happier. So although we disagree, he has chosen to protect my feelings over indulging in porn. That’s actually what a big part of marriage is; being willing to put aside your own wants for the sake of protecting your spouse’s feelings.

I feel that your example is exactly what I was trying to express.

 

[EasterJoy]

My experience may be a bit different, because we’re coming from different worldviews, but I had to have this conversation with my husband when we were dating as well.

I’m going to preface this by saying that I have no problem with pornography in general, and I don’t have an issue when single people, or people in relationships where their significant other doesn’t care, use it. However, in my romantic relationships, pornography is a deal-breaker. That’s my personal standard and not something that I could bend on.

When my husband and I started dating, we were both pretty upfront about our porn use. I didn’t care that he used it, because as we were newly dating, I didn’t believe that it was any of my business at that point. But when we got serious I brought the issue up to him. I didn’t frame it as a “You will stop this now” sort of thing. Rather, I talked about what our relationship meant to me, where I saw it going, what place I wanted him to have in my life, and what place I wanted to have in his. Porn was actually only a very small part of this conversation. But, when we started talking about intimacy I told him that I hadn’t used pornography in a long time because we were at the point where I felt that I needed to be exclusively focused on him in every respect if we were going to work towards marriage. I asked him if he would be willing to give me the same commitment. He didn’t really understand why it was a big deal to me, but he was touched by my gesture (even though he did insist that I should look at porn whenever I wanted). I told him that when we’re just dating it’s one thing, but that I didn’t want to be committed to someone who would tell me they loved me every day while seeking out other women whenever the urge struck. He really disagreed with this perspective, and he still does, but he saw how much it meant to me and how hurt I would be if he tried to move our relationship forward with pornography in the picture. So that was it, he gave it up.

This was a couple of years ago. Since then, when pornography comes up in media or is mentioned by someone else, I make it a point to tell my husband how much I appreciate him giving it up without ever making me feel guilty, how much my self-esteem and self-confidence has improved, and how much better I feel that our sex life is now. He loves being thanked for it, and he always points out that giving up porn was easily well worth it for a better sex life and for me to be happier. So although we disagree, he has chosen to protect my feelings over indulging in porn. That’s actually what a big part of marriage is; being willing to put aside your own wants for the sake of protecting your spouse’s feelings.

If you consider pornography a viable option that adults might choose, of course this is a reasonable way to go about it. If you consider pornography wrong and repulsive, though, what are you going to do if your husband does not change because he doesn’t see anything wrong with it and thinks you were being over-sensitive over nothing? Well, if it is just a preference that you think is OK for some people, OK, you take a deep breath and you live with it.

If, OTOH, you can’t live with it, I think you ought to be plain about that prior to marriage. Don’t pretend that an issue is negotiable when it is not. Be respectful and patient, yes but also be honest about what your prospective spouse is getting himself into. He deserves that much.

Just out of curiosity: What do you think you would have done if he had said (as many men do), “Well, I’m sorry you feel that way, because I see nothing wrong with it and I’m not giving it up”? Would you have given in and put up with it, or not? If you found he had lied to you and just elected to look at porn behind your back, how do you suspect you would have handled that? (I realize that “what would have beens” are always a little dicey, but I mean in terms of what you think the OP ought to consider her options are likely to be.)

We get into some arguments, but I’m not looking for that. I’m looking for expansions.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I realize that my approach is not a universal one. Then again, on something like this, no approach would work for everyone.

If you consider pornography a viable option that adults might choose, of course this is a reasonable way to go about it. If you consider pornography wrong and repulsive, though, what are you going to do if your husband does not change because he doesn’t see anything wrong with it and thinks you were being over-sensitive over nothing? Well, if it is just a preference that you think is OK for some people, OK, you take a deep breath and you live with it.

To start with, I would never recommend waiting until after marriage to discuss this. I wouldn’t even recommend discussing engagement before porn!

If, OTOH, you can’t live with it, I think you ought to be plain about that prior to marriage. Don’t pretend that an issue is negotiable when it is not. Be respectful and patient, yes but also be honest about what your prospective spouse is getting himself into. He deserves that much.

I did plainly state that this came up when we were discussing getting more serious and taking steps to plan for a possible engagement.

Just out of curiosity: What do you think you would have done if he had said (as many men do), “Well, I’m sorry you feel that way, because I see nothing wrong with it and I’m not giving it up”? Would you have given in and put up with it, or not? If you found he had lied to you and just elected to look at porn behind your back, how do you suspect you would have handled that? (I realize that “what would have beens” are always a little dicey, but I mean in terms of what you think the OP ought to consider her options are likely to be.)

What would I have said? I wouldn’t have married him. That’s one of the easiest questions I’ve ever been asked, to be quite honest. And I wouldn’t have even broken up with him over the porn, exactly. I would have broken up with him because I didn’t see myself moving forward with a man who couldn’t put something like that aside for the feelings of the woman he loves.

When a relationship gets serious, we all make concessions for the other person. That’s a normal part of bringing someone into your life and family like that, and when two people merge their lives, those compromises are unavoidable just because everyone’s perspectives, beliefs, and feelings are a bit different. I made many concessions for his comfort and feelings as well. For example, shortly before we had the porn talk, he told me that it made him uncomfortable when I called male friends ‘hun’ or ‘sweetie’ in casual conversation. I didn’t think that my behavior was out of line, and I didn’t think that he should be uncomfortable with it. A large part of it was my rural upbringing, and every woman used those words for pretty much everyone. But he didn’t have the same perspective and it made him a little jealous, so I stopped. I didn’t stop because I thought I was wrong. I stopped because I had a wonderful boyfriend that I loved, and altering my behavior to protect his feelings was a small price to pay for his happiness. If I sat down and made a list I could probably come up with many examples of things like this in my relationship, as I’m sure that most other married/long term couples could as well.

Yes, this system could be abused. You could ask “Well, what if he said you had to give up playing music for his feelings?” All I could say to something like that is that my husband and I are reasonable and loving people who want what’s best for each other. My husband and I have never demanded that the other person give something up that really mattered to us, and we’ve never asked for a concession to be made unless our feelings were actually on the line. We are able to say “I disagree with your perspective, but I can see how a reasonable person could come to that conclusion, and although I disagree with you, I’m not going to knowingly do what would hurt you”.

I waited to bring this up with him because I didn’t think that as a casual girlfriend, it was any of my business. But when we started talking about building a life together, it very quickly became my business. I didn’t wait a manipulative amount of time, but I didn’t feel like I should be able to pry into his personal life and start making demands on his private sexuality until we were at the point where it would definitely be part of my life too. The thing is, we were in our early-mid 20s when we met, so we moved slowly. We didn’t exchange ‘I love yous’ until we were exclusive for about 6 months. He didn’t meet my family until we were together for almost a year. But after that year mark, things picked up. We started talking about a future, and what we wanted, and hoped for, and how things were going to change, and what we needed to do to build a life together, and on and on. (You’re married, you know what talks I’m talking about.) It was in those talks that porn came up, and once again, it was only a small part of a more broad transition in our relationship.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

And as far as what would have happened if he went behind my back, that would have been it. I wouldn’t have stayed with someone that deceitful. Why marry someone who has shown me that I can’t trust them?

Yes, he could be using porn behind my back, but I don’t think he is. He’s never given me a reason not to trust him, we have complete transparency and use each other’s computers and cell phones all the time. We even know every password that the other has. But more than all of that, he’s just a good, honest man who doesn’t lie to anyone, so the idea of him doing it to me is a little far-fetched. (He feels really guilty when we get invited to something that we don’t want to go to and I say that we can’t because we already have plans.) But let’s say I found out that he was looking at porn. At the very least, I would be staying somewhere else for awhile, we would be in counseling, and the wonderful and comforting trust that we have would be broken. He would be on a very short leash and I would be a very distraught parole officer-esque wife. Yes, I’m talking internet monitoring software of every stripe and anything else I could get my hands on.

 

[EasterJoy]

I realize that my approach is not a universal one. Then again, on something like this, no approach would work for everyone.

To start with, I would never recommend waiting until after marriage to discuss this. I wouldn’t even recommend discussing engagement before porn!

I did plainly state that this came up when we were discussing getting more serious and taking steps to plan for a possible engagement.

What would I have said? I wouldn’t have married him. That’s one of the easiest questions I’ve ever been asked, to be quite honest. And I wouldn’t have even broken up with him over the porn, exactly. I would have broken up with him because I didn’t see myself moving forward with a man who couldn’t put something like that aside for the feelings of the woman he loves.

When a relationship gets serious, we all make concessions for the other person. That’s a normal part of bringing someone into your life and family like that, and when two people merge their lives, those compromises are unavoidable just because everyone’s perspectives, beliefs, and feelings are a bit different. I made many concessions for his comfort and feelings as well. For example, shortly before we had the porn talk, he told me that it made him uncomfortable when I called male friends ‘hun’ or ‘sweetie’ in casual conversation. I didn’t think that my behavior was out of line, and I didn’t think that he should be uncomfortable with it. A large part of it was my rural upbringing, and every woman used those words for pretty much everyone. But he didn’t have the same perspective and it made him a little jealous, so I stopped. I didn’t stop because I thought I was wrong. I stopped because I had a wonderful boyfriend that I loved, and altering my behavior to protect his feelings was a small price to pay for his happiness. If I sat down and made a list I could probably come up with many examples of things like this in my relationship, as I’m sure that most other married/long term couples could as well.

Yes, this system could be abused. You could ask “Well, what if he said you had to give up playing music for his feelings?” All I could say to something like that is that my husband and I are reasonable and loving people who want what’s best for each other. My husband and I have never demanded that the other person give something up that really mattered to us, and we’ve never asked for a concession to be made unless our feelings were actually on the line. We are able to say “I disagree with your perspective, but I can see how a reasonable person could come to that conclusion, and although I disagree with you, I’m not going to knowingly do what would hurt you”.

I waited to bring this up with him because I didn’t think that as a casual girlfriend, it was any of my business. But when we started talking about building a life together, it very quickly became my business. I didn’t wait a manipulative amount of time, but I didn’t feel like I should be able to pry into his personal life and start making demands on his private sexuality until we were at the point where it would definitely be part of my life too. The thing is, we were in our early-mid 20s when we met, so we moved slowly. We didn’t exchange ‘I love yous’ until we were exclusive for about 6 months. He didn’t meet my family until we were together for almost a year. But after that year mark, things picked up. We started talking about a future, and what we wanted, and hoped for, and how things were going to change, and what we needed to do to build a life together, and on and on. (You’re married, you know what talks I’m talking about.) It was in those talks that porn came up, and once again, it was only a small part of a more broad transition in our relationship.

We are in agreement; you are just saying (wisely) to be mindful of the tone used, particularly when it isn’t a matter of revisiting a promise already made but rather about deciding what promises will be mutually agreeable.

It does not do in any case to present even legitimate complaints in a way that makes the other person defensive, and it does not do to show up with a laundry list of them. One thing at a time, and without counter-productive drama. And yes, it is up to the person marrying to decide what is “non-negotiable” and what is not. You’re handing over your whole life, each to the other. You have to be on the same page.

You see, we do agree, sometimes!

 

[alphawoman]

As a woman whose marriage has been shattered by my husband’s hidden porn addiction, GET OUT NOW. If he sees nothing wrong with porn, he is already actively dehumanizing wide segments of the population.

Sure; model the faith for him, but don’t throw away your happiness and well being–and that of your future children–on a man who is intellectually incapable of seeing the wrong in his actions.

 

[Rache]

OP, please do NOT listen to this advice. A man who does porn has a serious addiction and no woman can change him

This is pure, 100%, truth. If you do, you knowingly walk into a marriage of constant suffering. Is that how you want your life to be? If so … then you both choose to suffer.

 

[Ingeniero]

As a woman whose marriage has been shattered by my husband’s hidden porn addiction, GET OUT NOW. If he sees nothing wrong with porn, he is already actively dehumanizing wide segments of the population.

Sure; model the faith for him, but don’t throw away your happiness and well being–and that of your future children–on a man who is intellectually incapable of seeing the wrong in his actions.

there are those men who for love of wife and/or love of Christ have given up a porn addiction.

it’s not easy.

one day at a time, sometimes one hour at a time, even sometimes one minute at a time.
(those who have been in a 12-step program will understand)