How do Jews disagree with Jesus as the messiah?

  • Thread starter Thread starter PeterJohn
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Instead of spamming the thread from some Messianic website, what proportion of Rabbis have converted to Christianity in the last 10 years, 100 years, 1000 years?
 
When reading these short biographies, it is hard to not hear Yeshua’s haunting voice, as he proclaimed,
You will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. ( Matthew 10:22 )
Click to expand...
Very sad indeed.

Shalom Aleichem
 
Kaninchen said:
Instead of spamming the thread from some Messianic website, what proportion of Rabbis have converted to Christianity in the last 10 years, 100 years, 1000 years?
Click to expand...
Shalom Kaninchen;

Please forgive me, I do realize that was a lot of posting, my apologies.

Per your question; that’s not the point though, 1 or 1000, the numbers of converted don’t mean anything. I am merely trying to demonstrate that many, very learned Rabbis, men of esteem and high knowledge of the Torah, Writings, and Prophets, came to faith in Yeshua.

As an aside, I don’t think the word converted is appropriate; most, if not all of these men did not view the fact that they followed Yeshua as a “conversion” from their previous faith; but on the contrary, they saw it as the fulfillment, and thus they never saw the false dilemma created by many, that one cannot be both Jewish, and believe in Yeshua as the promised Mashiach.

Shalom Aleichem
 
YeshuaOrHaOlam said:
Please forgive me, I do realize that was a lot of posting, my apologies.
Click to expand...
Forum rules are against copying and pasting from other sites, rather than that, links should be given.
Per your question; that’s not the point though, 1 or 1000, the numbers of converted don’t mean anything. I am merely trying to demonstrate that many, very learned Rabbis, men of esteem and high knowledge of the Torah, Writings, and Prophets, came to faith in Yeshua.
Click to expand...
Perhaps CAF should have a section where everybody could paste about apostates of all sorts?
As an aside, I don’t think the word converted is appropriate; most, if not all of these men did not view the fact that they followed Yeshua as a “conversion” from their previous faith; but on the contrary, they saw it as the fulfillment, and thus they never saw the false dilemma created by many, that one cannot be both Jewish, and believe in Yeshua as the promised Mashiach.
Click to expand...
Shalom Aleichem
Click to expand...
Yes, Catholics should definitely be required to accept practising Mormons as Catholic and Messianic Jews should be certainly required to accept practising Muslims.
 
Kaninchen said:
Instead of spamming the thread from some Messianic website, what proportion of Rabbis have converted to Christianity in the last 10 years, 100 years, 1000 years?
Click to expand...
Hey Kaninchen, Who is the “him” in the following passage to which God is referring, regarding the nation?

“This is what the Lord says—
the Redeemer and Holy One of Israel—
to him who was despised and abhorred by the nation…” Isaiah
 
Kaninchen said:
Forum rules are against copying and pasting from other sites, rather than that, links should be given.

Perhaps CAF should have a section where everybody could paste about apostates of all sorts?
Click to expand...
About a nine on the ol’ tension scale…He did say: “Please forgive me, I do realize that was a lot of posting, my apologies.” 🤷
 
joe370 said:
Hey Kaninchen, Who is the “him” in the following passage to which God is referring, regarding the nation?

“This is what the Lord says—
the Redeemer and Holy One of Israel—
to him who was despised and abhorred by the nation…” Isaiah
Click to expand...
In an earlier response, I said I don’t ‘do’ proof texts and gave one of my (many) reasons.

Not being British, you won’t know the idea of ‘Pantomime Debate’ (another poster and I were joking/about alluding to it earlier). Pantomimes are popular Christmastime children’s entertainment loosely based on fairy tales - in it there are sequences where children are encouraged to comment on what characters say or do “Oh, yes he is!/Oh, no he isn’t!” “Oh, yes it is!/Oh no it isn’t!” It goes on and on, and on, and on.

In my now, rather lengthy, experience of talking about religion on message boards, that’s how proof text discussions go, page after page of text with “Oh, yes it is!”, “Oh, no it isn’t!” and neither side ends up even vaguely convinced. It all gets rather boring after the first year or two. After over a decade and a half, it’s just somebody else’s problem.
 
Kaninchen said:
Forum rules are against copying and pasting from other sites, rather than that, links should be given.

Perhaps CAF should have a section where everybody could paste about apostates of all sorts?

Yes, Catholics should definitely be required to accept practising Mormons as Catholic and Messianic Jews should be certainly required to accept practising Muslims.
Click to expand...
My friend,

Please accept my apology once more, I am new here, and not terribly familiar with the forum rules and regulations. I did not mean to disobey or break a tenant.

If CAF had a section about apostates, that would be neither here nor there; again, it seems my point has been misconstrued.

The statement that Catholics should accept Mormons, Messianics accept Muslims, is a divergent, and non relevant claim.

As an side; If I have offended you in any way; I’m sorry. This was not my intent.

Shalom
 
YeshuaOrHaOlam said:
Shalom Kaninchen;

Please forgive me, I do realize that was a lot of posting, my apologies.

Per your question; that’s not the point though, 1 or 1000, the numbers of converted don’t mean anything. I am merely trying to demonstrate that many, very learned Rabbis, men of esteem and high knowledge of the Torah, Writings, and Prophets, came to faith in Yeshua.

As an aside, I don’t think the word converted is appropriate; most, if not all of these men did not view the fact that they followed Yeshua as a “conversion” from their previous faith; but on the contrary, they saw it as the fulfillment, and thus they never saw the false dilemma created by many, that one cannot be both Jewish, and believe in Yeshua as the promised Mashiach.

Shalom Aleichem
Click to expand...
Did the rabbis you refer to also accept Jesus as G-d incarnate? I ask this since it is one thing to accept Jesus as the Messiah but quite another to believe in the divinity of Jesus, because for Jews the Messiah is supposed to be human, not divine. I recall you said yourself that you do not agree with the Christian belief in the Trinity. Do you, however, believe in the hypostatic union of Jesus as being fully human and fully divine, as (most) Christians do? Or is your conception of Jesus more in line with Mormonism?
 
Kaninchen said:
In an earlier response, I said I don’t ‘do’ proof texts and gave one of my (many) reasons.

Not being British, you won’t know the idea of ‘Pantomime Debate’ (another poster and I were joking/about alluding to it earlier). Pantomimes are popular Christmastime children’s entertainment loosely based on fairy tales - in it there are sequences where children are encouraged to comment on what characters say or do “Oh, yes he is!/Oh, no he isn’t!” “Oh, yes it is!/Oh no it isn’t!” It goes on and on, and on, and on.

In my now, rather lengthy, experience of talking about religion on message boards, that’s how proof text discussions go, page after page of text with “Oh, yes it is!”, “Oh, no it isn’t!” and neither side ends up even vaguely convinced. It all gets rather boring after the first year or two. After over a decade and a half, it’s just somebody else’s problem.
Click to expand...
I saw the pantomime thingy 😃
 
meltzerboy said:
Did the rabbis you refer to also accept Jesus as G-d incarnate? I ask this since it is one thing to accept Jesus as the Messiah and quite another to believe in the divinity of Jesus, because for Jews the Messiah is supposed to be human, not divine. I recall you said yourself that you do not agree with the Christian belief in the Trinity. Do you, however, believe in the hypostatic union of Jesus as being fully human and fully divine, as (most) Christians do? Or is your conception of Jesus more in line with Mormonism?
Click to expand...
Shalom meltzerboy;

Thank you for your questions.

Some of the mentioned did not, some, like those who chose Catholicism, did.

You are correct; I do not believe in the trinity, nor do I believe Yeshua to be G-d Most High.

My belief is that Yeshua is the Son Of G-d, the G-d of Israel. He is the G-d we find in the Torah, Writings, Prophets, the story of Israel. He is a Son Of G-d, not equal to, but holds the most important position among the Sons Of God, seated at the right hand of The Father.

He is divine in that sense, but He is not G-d Almighty.

My beliefs could, with a stretch, be comparable in some way to Mormonism, but they are in no way similar at their foundation.

Shalom Aleichem
 
YeshuaOrHaOlam said:
Shalom meltzerboy;

Thank you for your questions.

Some of the mentioned did not, some, like those who chose Catholicism, did.

You are correct; I do not believe in the trinity, nor do I believe Yeshua to be G-d Most High.

My belief is that Yeshua is the Son Of G-d, the G-d of Israel. He is the G-d we find in the Torah, Writings, Prophets, the story of Israel. He is a Son Of G-d, not equal to, but holds the most important position among the Sons Of God, seated at the right hand of The Father.

He is divine in that sense, but He is not G-d Almighty.

My beliefs could, with a stretch, be comparable in some way to Mormonism, but they are in no way similar at their foundation.

Shalom Aleichem
Click to expand...
It appears then that your religious belief is polytheistic in that you speak of more than one G-d: G-d Almighty, the Son of G-d (Jesus, the G-d in the Hebrew Bible), and also other Sons of G-d. Where does your belief in other Sons of G-d come from: the Hebrew Bible, the Gospels, the Book of Mormon, or a different source? Also, why do you think the G-d we find in the Hebrew Bible is not G-d Almighty, but rather only Jesus?
 
Kaninchen said:
Depends on your perspective.
Click to expand...
Perspective or not; Islam and Mormonism are two faiths which claim their founder (The prophet Muhammad, Joseph Smith) received direct divine revelation which “corrects” previously erroneous doctrines held by people of the book, Christians, what have you.

Faith in Yeshua as the Mashiach is wholly different from such religions. Yeshua did not come to abolish the Hebrew religion and replace it with His own. He claimed to be the promised Mashiach, and contrary to what misunderstandings and misconceptions about His person have declared; He does not nullify the Jewish religion in any way.

I should note, I am not a mainstream Christian, and do not believe much of what is taught by modern churches regarding the person of Jesus Christ. I only mention this, as I don’t want to misconstrue my position; I feel as though I am being asked to defend Catholicism, in essence, defending things which I do not believe are evident truths.

( My apologies to my Catholic brothers and sisters; I admire and esteem many Catholics, and in no way mean to insult you, but for my position’s sake, I felt need be declare thus )

Shalom Aleichem
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top