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c659smith
Guest
Has the time not passed for the Jewish Messiah?
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Daniel_Marsh
Guest
Read Romans 11, without Jeus they simply don’t make it to heaven.
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wardrandolph
Guest
I’m not sure what you’re asking.Prayer vl from tonights Mass:For the Jewish people:Let us pray for the Jewish people,the first to hear the word of God,that they may continue to grow in the love of his name and in faithfulness to his covenant.(Priest)Almighty and eternal God,long ago you gave your promice to Abraham and his posterity,Listen to your Church as we pray that the people you first made your own may arrive at the fullness of redemption.We ask this through Christ our Lord.Amen.
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c659smith
Guest
How does a Jew get to heaven?
Is there a path?
If a Jew dies today is there hope for salvation if he or she is not righteous?
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PhoenixRoach
Guest
“The Catholic Church professes that it is the one, holy catholic and apostolic Church of Christ; this it does not and could not deny. But in its Constitution the Church now solemnly acknowledges that the Holy Ghost is truly active in the churches and communities separated from itself. To these other Christian Churches the Catholic Church is bound in many ways: through reverence for God’s word in the Scriptures; through the fact of baptism; through other sacraments which they recognize.”
- The non-Christian may not be blamed for his ignorance of Christ and his Church; salvation is open to him also, if he seeks God sincerely and if he follows the commands of his conscience, for through this means the Holy Ghost acts upon all men; this divine action is not confined within the limited boundaries of the visible Church."
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allischalmers
Guest
The same why other people do By believing that Lord Jesus Christ
is the Son of God and that he died for their sins
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c659smith
Guest
But the question remains what does a Jew believe: how he or she gets to heaven.?
What must they themselves do to get to the ultimate goal
( heaven)
How does a Jew believe he or she will get to heaven?
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PhoenixRoach
Guest
Everyone gets to Heaven the same way: by LIVING the Gospel. The Church’s current language on the whole thing is a huge improvement over the old language, which essentially damned the Dalai Lama to hell.
Why it has taken us so long to publicly state the long-known mystical understanding that Jesus showed us THE WAY, rather than literally insisting belief in his divinity was not only enough but essential I’ll never know.
Why it has taken us so long to publicly state the long-known mystical understanding that Jesus showed us THE WAY, rather than literally insisting belief in his divinity was not only enough but essential I’ll never know.
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wardrandolph
Guest
I don’t remember the part about Dali Lama.:
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c659smith
Guest
Where do you get this from ?
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PhoenixRoach
Guest
The Catechism.
Post Vatican2, the teaching boils down to precisely that. That if someone is living the Gospel, even if they are not Christian, it is a likelihood they go to heaven.
That’s how I read it anyway.
How do you read it?
Post Vatican2, the teaching boils down to precisely that. That if someone is living the Gospel, even if they are not Christian, it is a likelihood they go to heaven.
That’s how I read it anyway.
How do you read it?
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c659smith
Guest
That is not how it’s read in any way,shape,or form.
If you know otherwise please show me.
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PhoenixRoach
Guest
That is how I interpret the relevant passage. That a Gospel-living person who is not Christian, who’s only exposure to Christianity is from fire-breathing Fundamentalist missionaries in their own country, who retains their tribal religion, but who lives according to the Gospel, that theirs too is the Kingdom of Heaven.
Are you telling me that that isn’t the way you read it?
Are you telling me that that isn’t the way you read it?
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Hisalone
Guest
So if God came down and became man and died so all who believe in Him may be saved.
If someone does not believe in Jesus but believes in God for their salvation are they not saved?
If someone does not believe in Jesus but believes in God for their salvation are they not saved?
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c659smith
Guest
I and the Father are one." ( John 10:30)
“I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you know me, you will know my Father also.” ( John 14:6-7)
But Jesus answered them, ‘My Father is working still, and I am still working.’ This was why the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath, but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God. ( John 5:16-18)
“Whoever hates me hates my Father also.” ( John 15:23)
I will let the scriptures speak for themselves
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c659smith
Guest
The Catholic dogma is indeed that outside the Church there is no salvation, but your interpretation of what this dogma means is flawed. The Church does not presume to know who will be in heaven with God. It makes no judgments in this matter whatsoever. The ancient phrase extra ecclesiam nulla salus (literally, “outside the Church no salvation”) has been a widely accepted principle since the earliest days of Christianity. Since the Church has no authority to deny long-established principles, it cannot simply throw out time-honored truths to suit the current fads of thinking.
the principle says that the Church is the necessary instrument for people to find salvation. The Second Vatican Council affirmed that the Catholic Church is the “sole Church of Christ” that Christ established on the earth (Lumen Gentium 8). In the teaching and sacramental ministry of the Church, Jesus Christ is made known to the world for the salvation of the human race. No one would have access to Christ’s salvation if the Church were not in the world. In that sense the Church is necessary. But Christ’s salvation is not limited to the boundaries of formal membership in the Church. In other words, we know from Christ’s teaching in the Bible that the Church is necessary, but the Church holds out hope for those outside the Church that they too may be saved.
The Catholic Church insists on salvation only through Christ because it is the unchanging witness of Scripture and Christian Tradition. We cannot surrender the centrality of Christ or the Church without abandoning our faith and heritage. But you are also right when you say that there may be people who are united to Christ while not being aware of it. We don’t say that we know there are such people. We say that because we don’t know if those outside the Church are cut off from Christ.
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Auntie_A
Guest
Two things come to my mind on this thread: The story of the Good Samaritan who surpasses the other two religious men by his charity; and the scripture in which Jesus says not everyone who says “Lord, Lord” will enter the kingdom of heaven.
These two teachings keep me humble as a Catholic and away from the role of judge. I feel that I am held to a higher standard as a Catholic rather than comfortable.
So ultimately I believe that a Jewish person, a pagan, or an atheist might be more worthy of heaven than I, and I leave it in God’s hands to judge us all. I will, however, spread the gospel and teach the Catholic traditions because I believe they are the closest to the Truth.
I welcome any rebuttals.
These two teachings keep me humble as a Catholic and away from the role of judge. I feel that I am held to a higher standard as a Catholic rather than comfortable.
So ultimately I believe that a Jewish person, a pagan, or an atheist might be more worthy of heaven than I, and I leave it in God’s hands to judge us all. I will, however, spread the gospel and teach the Catholic traditions because I believe they are the closest to the Truth.
I welcome any rebuttals.
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Verisimilitude
Guest
Like the rest of us, I think they are forgiven by Him.
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JReducation
Guest
Those who watched the Good Friday Liturgy from the Vatican will have heard Friar Reiniero’s sermon to the Vatican Household and to the world. Friar Reiniero is a Capuchin Brother who is the official preacher to the Pope and the papal household. His entire sermon was on Ecumenism.
He made several points very clear.
As we all know, everything that is publically preached from the Vatican is carefully scrutinized before it is said. The Vatican knows that the world is listening.
It is safe to believe that if this Capuchin Brother who preached to the Pope and the Church made these statements, that they are in accord with the mind of the Magisterium. In addition to the fact that he is the official preacher to the pope. He’s also a Capuchin Brother, which is one of the most orthodox religious orders in the Church. That’s why the rule in the Vatican is that only Capuchins can preach to the pope and be the papal confessors.
There are also parts of Et Unum Sint by John Paul II and parts of the scriptures and former popes that the friar used to drive home the point of salvation for all and the importance that the pope make ecumanism a priority. This of course includes the Jews.
Christ is everyone’s Messiah. What stands between the salvation that Christ offers and the individual are the moral choices that the individual makes with the truths that he has.
JR
He made several points very clear.
- We have misunderstood and misapplied the teachings of previous popes on salvation to those who are not Catholics.
- The saving act of Jesus Christ is not limited only to Catholics, even though the Catholic Church posesses the fulness of truth, but those other communities as well are included in the saving act of Christ. Even those communities who do not recognize Jesus as Messiah, are saved by the Messiah, humanity cannot stop the Messianic mission of Christ on the cross.
- Those communities that are not in communion witht the Catholic Church must be loved.
- We must be quicker to love and more patient in dialogue.
- Those communities that are not in communion with the Catholic Church are still part of the Mystical Body of Christ and are therefore united to us through the head of the Mystical Body, Jesus Christ.
- God can and does use these communities as a means to salvation through the limited truth that they profess.
As we all know, everything that is publically preached from the Vatican is carefully scrutinized before it is said. The Vatican knows that the world is listening.
It is safe to believe that if this Capuchin Brother who preached to the Pope and the Church made these statements, that they are in accord with the mind of the Magisterium. In addition to the fact that he is the official preacher to the pope. He’s also a Capuchin Brother, which is one of the most orthodox religious orders in the Church. That’s why the rule in the Vatican is that only Capuchins can preach to the pope and be the papal confessors.
There are also parts of Et Unum Sint by John Paul II and parts of the scriptures and former popes that the friar used to drive home the point of salvation for all and the importance that the pope make ecumanism a priority. This of course includes the Jews.
Christ is everyone’s Messiah. What stands between the salvation that Christ offers and the individual are the moral choices that the individual makes with the truths that he has.
JR
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peary
Guest
**A Jew has as much opportunity to get to heaven or not just as much as a Christian does. And aren’t you being a bit bigoted by suggesting that Jews aren’t righteous? **
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