How do JWs explain Luke 16:19-31?

[yessisan]

Especially the words in bold…

From the New American Bible…

19 12 "There was a rich man 13 who dressed in purple garments and fine linen and dined sumptuously each day. 20 And lying at his door was a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21 who would gladly have eaten his fill of the scraps that fell from the rich man’s table. Dogs even used to come and lick his sores. 22 **When the poor man died, he was carried away by angels to the bosom of Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried, ****23 **and from the netherworld, 14 where he was in torment, he raised his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24 And he cried out, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me. Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am suffering torment in these flames.’ 25 Abraham replied, 'My child, remember that you received what was good during your lifetime while Lazarus likewise received what was bad; but now he is comforted here, whereas you are tormented. 26 Moreover, between us and you a great chasm is established to prevent anyone from crossing who might wish to go from our side to yours or from your side to ours.’ 27 He said, ‘Then I beg you, father, send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, **so that he may warn them, lest they too come to this place of torment.’ **29 But Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.’ 30 15 He said, ‘Oh no, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 Then Abraham said, ‘If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead.’"

 

[yessisan]

I went home after Mass this past Sunday and looked at DH’s NWT bible, and the words are very similar, and they do include the torment and the fire. Why then, do they still deny the existence of Hell?

From the NWT bible

19 “But a certain man was rich, and he used to deck himself with purple and linen, enjoying himself from day to day with magnificence. 20 But a certain beggar named Laz´a·rus used to be put at his gate, full of ulcers 21 and desiring to be filled with the things dropping from the table of the rich man. Yes, too, the dogs would come and lick his ulcers. 22 Now in course of time the beggar died and he was carried off by the angels to the bosom [position] of Abraham. **
“Also, the rich man died and was buried. 23 And in Ha´des he lifted up his eyes, he existing in torments, and he saw Abraham afar off and Laz´a·rus in the bosom [position] with him. 24 So he called and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Laz´a·rus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in anguish in this blazing fire.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you received in full your good things in your lifetime, but Laz´a·rus correspondingly the injurious things. Now, however, he is having comfort here but you are in anguish. 26 And besides all these things, a great chasm has been fixed between us and YOU people, so that those wanting to go over from here to YOU people cannot, neither may people cross over from there to us.**’ 27 Then he said, ‘In that event I ask you, father, to send him to the house of my father, 28 for I have five brothers, in order that he may give them a thorough witness, that they also should not get into this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to these.’ 30 Then he said, ‘No, indeed, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead.’”

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Okay, here is what I was taught back in the late 1970s about
the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus.

I was taught that the Rich Man represented the Pharisees and their position of callous superiority over the people with simple faith. Lazarus, I was told, represented the simple faithful Israelites who the Pharisees were not feeding with Truth, not
even measly SCRAPS of Truth from the sumptuous tables.
I was taught that the death of each, respectively, meant
the reversal of fortune for each – the end of power for the Pharisees and spiritual gain for the simple Jews who followed Jesus.

Of course, not knowing any better, I believed this explanation.
But that still doesn’t explain why a Jesus who loathed paganism would use pure allegedly-pagan imagery, such as a soul suffering torment in hades after death - to make any kind of a point.
Why would Jesus borrow from paganism to teach Israeli JEWS?

We all know that a mere drop of water wouldn’t cool a person’s tongue for real, Jesus was just showing the deep desperation the eternally lost feel — desperation, not genuine repentance.

I tend to believe that this story is NOT entirely fictional,
for in every other instance when Jesus was telling a mere
PARABLE, he NEVER, EVER gave one of the characters
a personal name, as he did to “Lazarus” in this story.

I believe things like this happen to people all the time after death.
Those who have lived sumptuously with no regard for God or their fellow man, get a big surprise to their souls when they die.
And those who love God, but are not blessed with the world’s goods, receive a reward when they die (going to “the bosom of Abraham”) and that those who know the Bible and still live selfishly wouldn’t be persuaded even if somebody did physically rise from the dead. They won’t listen to Moses and the Prophets, they certainly won’t listen to a miracle.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

 

[yessisan]

Okay, here is what I was taught back in the late 1970s about
the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus.

I was taught that the Rich Man represented the Pharisees and their position of callous superiority over the people with simple faith. Lazarus, I was told, represented the simple faithful Israelites who the Pharisees were not feeding with Truth, not
even measly SCRAPS of Truth from the sumptuous tables.
I was taught that the death of each, respectively, meant
the reversal of fortune for each – the end of power for the Pharisees and spiritual gain for the simple Jews who followed Jesus.

Of course, not knowing any better, I believed this explanation.
But that still doesn’t explain why a Jesus who loathed paganism would use pure allegedly-pagan imagery, such as a soul suffering torment in hades after death - to make any kind of a point.
Why would Jesus borrow from paganism to teach Israeli JEWS?

We all know that a mere drop of water wouldn’t cool a person’s tongue for real, Jesus was just showing the deep desperation the eternally lost feel — desperation, not genuine repentance.

I tend to believe that this story is NOT entirely fictional,
for in every other instance when Jesus was telling a mere
PARABLE, he NEVER, EVER gave one of the characters
a personal name, as he did to “Lazarus” in this story.

I believe things like this happen to people all the time after death.
Those who have lived sumptuously with no regard for God or their fellow man, get a big surprise to their souls when they die.
And those who love God, but are not blessed with the world’s goods, receive a reward when they die (going to “the bosom of Abraham”) and that those who know the Bible and still live selfishly wouldn’t be persuaded even if somebody did physically rise from the dead. They won’t listen to Moses and the Prophets, they certainly won’t listen to a miracle.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

I love the way you express yourself! The way Lazarus’ story is told is exactly what we Catholics believe Hell is.

If such description by Jesus is told the way it’s told, why then, do the JWs have the need to change it’s meaning? Hell, as described in Luke, is very real. Jesus made it very real in this parable. Why else would He describe is this way? It’s very graphic. It lets you know how the absence of God will be if you don’t follow the teachings of the Truth.

I just don’t get how someone can disregard such a description, among many, and say Hell doesn’t exist. It’s illustrated different times in different parts of the NT… I don’t get how the JWs just use Hades, Sheol and Gehenna as a place for the dead body to either rest or burn and be annihilated (no resurrection) and not have the soul included in all of this. And by soul, I mean spirit, not life, as JWs often call it.