How Do LDS Men Rise In Church Hierarchy?

[Lemuel]

These men are chosen through revelation they would say.

We used to say, “Some are chosen through revelation but most are chosen through desperation.”

 

[ltwin]

Grant Palmer also said that once they are an apostle, they are given 1 million dollars to pay off their debt so they can focus on church issues. They are also given a new bank account so anyone looking wont see anything fishy going on. I’m not sure how much of it is true but knowing that the lds church built that billion dollar shopping center would make me question things about their church and leadership. No church should be spending peoples tithings on things that have nothing to do with religion. And before any lds members say “its not tithings”, ask yourself where does the money come from? Tithings built your church along with donations.

I agree that a church should not be using tithe money or donations to build malls, but do we know if its using tithe money or donations? As I understand it, the LDS Church has a lot of “for profit” corporations that, while owned by the church, are managed separately from the non profit religious aspects.

It might be the case that this mall was payed for by other sources of revenue besides tithes given that the LDS Church has such vast business interests relative to other churches. However, without knowing more it would be hard to say.

 

[Augustinian]

I’ve been to that mall multiple times on visits to Salt Lake. Why would a church build a shopping mall?

It may have helped revitalize the area where the mall is located and where the church has other interests.

I don’t think that churches being involved in business is a bad idea. The Catholic Church has had many business ventures over the centuries too. Products like Benedictine and Christian Brothers have been marketed to the general public, other products like insurance have been sold strictly to Catholics through the Knights of Columbus and other fraternal organizations of the Catholic Church. The K of C owned the land that the old Yankee Stadium was on for many years.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Sadly, the LDS have no monopoly on this practice. Many denominations either covertly or overtly favor wealthy individuals in all sorts of ways. I remember one particularly famous cathedral (not Catholic) where every time I turned around there was the motto, to the glory of God and in loving memory of MYSELF, You can substitute the name of the donor for MYSELF.

 

[Chris-Wa1]

We’ll never know because the LDS church does not disclose it’s financials to the public. We don’t know where the tithing money goes. No account of it is given.

 

[Chris-Wa1]

I think your example of somebody donating and having a memorial is a far cry from being given high leadership positions in a church. My point is that in the LDS church, in general ONLY wealthy professionals rise up in the hierarchy. In this way the church is run more like a corporation.

 

[Lemuel]

It is a corporation. The Corporation of The President is the life blood of the LDS church. I don’t have a problem with that at all. I don’t care who rises up to positions of leadership and who doesn’t. I have a friend who is a civil engineer like me. I watched him over the years as he went through Primary and Sunday School callings to being a counselor in the bishopric, to being a stake president and he’s now a Seventy. He’s not what I’d call wealthy. And if he was I wouldn’t really care either. The Mormon church can run their business however they want. I don’t care.

 

[Chris-Wa1]

Obviously I am a crtiic of the LDS church. Though full of mostly very good people, I believe it to be a complete and utter fraud. I would go so far as to say that pretty much everything that is uniquely Mormon (not common with other Christian faiths) is false. I believe this hurts a lot of people for many reasons. So I point out the problems I have learned about Mormonism over the years in the hope that others will not be duped.

 

[Lemuel]

I am also a critic, having been there for decades. It’s just that some things I care about more than others. Who climbs the ladder and who doesn’t is not a hot button for me.

 

[NeuroTypical]

Is it just me or does it seem like almost all the upper leadership of the LDS church are wealthy career-type men?

Perhaps. One difference between LDS and Catholic, is we don’t have a ‘career path’ for entering the ministry.
All our bishops are volunteers with day jobs. It’s not until you’re called as a General Authority, that you’re expected to give up your livelihood and career aspirations and live on the meager living allowance offered by the Mormon church. Just think about it - giving up a promising and lucrative career (as a world-class heart surgeon, for example), in order to spend your remaining 30-50 years on planet earth with a substantial pay cut, a demanding travel schedule, sitting in the same meetings over and over again, until you die.

You might expect it from politicians, because it looks good on their resume as they’re constantly moving up the earning and power chain. But once you’re in upper leadership of the church, you pretty much stay there the rest of your life.

It dawns on me, here’s a good chance to ask Catholics - what are your thoughts on Father Benedict (also known as His Holiness Benedict XVI, Roman Pontiff Emeritus)? I didn’t know popes could retire. The Vatican News service said at the time he resigned, he took up residence in the Papal Palace of Castel Gandolfo, but he then moved into the Monastery of Mater Ecclesiae on the Vatican grounds, where his and his staff’s domestic needs are cared for by a small community of women belonging to the Memores Domini. Sounds nice. I wouldn’t expect to see a Mormon prophet and president to ever retire and live in a castle. How many of you folks were surprised at the news back in 2013? I hope this doesn’t come across as divisive or anything. But this is a thread about lifestyles and careers of church leaders, and I’m genuinely interested.

 

[Augustinian]

Just think about it - giving up a promising and lucrative career (as a world-class heart surgeon, for example), in order to spend your remaining 30-50 years on planet earth with a substantial pay cut, a demanding travel schedule, sitting in the same meetings over and over again, until you die.

However, most of your highest ranking Mormons are very elderly. Not to disparage anyone, if I was an insurance underwriter, and an 80 year old man wanted malpractice insurance to be a heart surgeon, it would be tough to write the policy at any premium.

 

[NeuroTypical]

However, most of your highest ranking Mormons are very elderly.

Not when they start out. Russell M. Nelson, our current elderly president, has been serving in upper leadership since 1984. Russel Ballard (car salesman turned business owner) since 1976. David Bednar is only 66 - he became an apostle at age 52. Uchdorf was age 54. Our two brand new apostles are ages 59 and 64, they probably gave up their careers at ages 47 and 62.

 

[Stephen168]

The Vatican News service said at the time he resigned, he took up residence in the Papal Palace of Castel Gandolfo, but he then moved into the Monastery of Mater Ecclesiae on the Vatican grounds, where his and his staff’s domestic needs are cared for by a small community of women belonging to the Memores Domini. Sounds nice. I wouldn’t expect to see a Mormon prophet and president to ever retire and live in a castle. How many of you folks were surprised at the news back in 2013?

I don’t have a problem with him sharing an 8,000 square foot building with a community of Nuns. The house I live in has about 800 square feet per person, so I guess it is about right. I also have 5 acres per person, and there are more than 21 people living in Vatican City. I don’t envy the people living in Vatican City. I’m sure a retired Mormon president would be doing as good or better.

 

[Spyridon]

think the business end of Mormonism is often overlooked because of all the other kooky historical and doctrinal issues. But the church has no financial accountability to it’s membership whatsoever. The membership gets no specifics of where their tithing money goes.

In the Catholic Church, the weekly tithing amounts are printed in the bulletin usually. Also, a yearly fiscal report is generally made public at each parish detailing all income and expenses.

Is there nothing similar in the LDS Church?

 

[Chris-Wa1]

That’s not really what this thread is about. Perhaps you should start your own to ask that question.

 

[Chris-Wa1]

Nope. Nothing.

 

[OKComputer]

Yup, the leaders of the LDS church live very, very well and make their members feel terrible guilt if they can’t pay ten percent of their income. In fact, they’ll take away a temple recommend or just deny it outright. The Catholic church does nothing like that.

 

[OKComputer]

No, nothing similar. It’s finances are very murky and hidden. It’s unlike every other church in the world. The Catholic church would NEVER do something as shady as the LDS church.

LDS hide their history from converts-after all, if missionaries told the truth the convert rate would be even lower than it actually is. LDS hide their activity rate, their actual member statistics, everything. It’s all about appearances.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Memores Domini are laypersons who have chosen to live a cummunal Christian life. They are like all laity, having jobs, etc. It is no surprise Pope Benedict chose to live with them. They are his friends and family, his community, and have been for many decades.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Perhaps. One difference between LDS and Catholic, is we don’t have a ‘career path’ for entering the ministry.

Just think about it - giving up a promising and lucrative career (as a world-class heart surgeon, for example), in order to spend your remaining 30-50 years on planet earth with a substantial pay cut, a demanding travel schedule, sitting in the same meetings over and over again, until you die.

It dawns on me, here’s a good chance to ask Catholics - what are your thoughts on Father Benedict (also known as His Holiness Benedict XVI, Roman Pontiff Emeritus)? I didn’t know popes could retire. The Vatican News service said at the time he resigned, he took up residence in the Papal Palace of Castel Gandolfo, but he then moved into the Monastery of Mater Ecclesiae on the Vatican grounds, where his and his staff’s domestic needs are cared for by a small community of women belonging to the Memores Domini. Sounds nice. I wouldn’t expect to see a Mormon prophet and president to ever retire and live in a castle. How many of you folks were surprised at the news back in 2013? I hope this doesn’t come across as divisive or anything. But this is a thread about lifestyles and careers of church leaders, and I’m genuinely interested.

NT those called to Holy Orders make the sacrifice of career and family when they are ordained. It is a lifelong commitment. We don’t view priesthood as a career. It is a vocation, as is marriage,

Pope Benedict does not own the house in which he lives. We, the laity, care for our clergy. We provide all that they need, including housing, and for their retirement. They have no income other than what they are paid by their parishes or in the case of Popes, by the Vatican. Those funds come from us, the laity.

We all support the Vatican via a worldwide annual appeal. The housing facilities, including its grander apartments, are owned and maintained by the Vatican and are reused, for centuries.

Every diocese takes up collections for clergy retirement. Pope Benedict was the Bishop of Rome, and I’m sure his diocese (Rome) are also happy to care for him in his retirement.

As to the topic…I can see the appeal of putting successful career men in leadership positions. But even the LDS Church has a history of this not being the norm, starting with Joseph Smith.

Yes, our diocesan priests are trained, primarily to lead parishes. Like all men, some have more innate business acumen than others. But that’s ok, those that do not have the possibility of lay men and women surrounding them who do, and are volunteering their time and talent.