How do "moderate" or "liberal" Muslims feel about Muslims leaving Islam?

[Lady_Bug]

Well -

we hear of moderate Muslims who claim they have assimilated into the mainstream America. That they are not like the bad guys on the TV. That they have become liberalized and are not fanatics.

I am asking an honest question - is leaving Islam for another religion any less dangerous in “moderate” or “liberal” Islamic families than it is in more strict ones? Is there any less risk of your family putting you to shame and abandoning you among “moderate” Muslims?

If this sounds bitter…pardon me but it is.

 

[Trishie]

I would think that it would certainly hurt family members, just as Catholic parents are hurt when their children leave their faith. Sometimes Catholic parents can react strongly and even immoderately, a recent instance comes to mind. It hurts, and it’s confusing, and there can be asense of betrayal, to parents who have done their best to raise their children in the faith they hold dear.

 

[Reuben_J]

I agree with that. In the matter of religion, which permeates deep in our very souls, leaving it would exact untold misery and helplessness on the part of parents and family members. I have a friend, a church leader whose son left the church because of a marriage to a Muslim girl. Despite what he is he could not forgive his son, ‘I can forgive him on about anything but not when he reject my God’. It was indeed tragic because on the other hand we are called to forgive but sometimes the emotional hurt is so great that even a good Christian finds it difficult to come to term with apostasy.

In term of hurt I think it is no difference with Muslims. However we hear that in Islam apostasy is a punishable offence so that could be the difference I guess. Because of the specific command Muslims therefore often resort to take the law into their hands when family members cannot accept the fact that their relative apostate.

In smaller community like the JW, an apostate will be ostracized and boycotted by the community. No such phenomenon happens among Catholics that I know of and so it is mild by comparison.

BTW, after hearing much about the many aspects of Islam here there is really no such things as moderate or liberal Muslims. The so-called moderate or liberal Muslims are simply those who do not pracice Islam in its entirety due to various migitating reasons.

 

[meedo]

Well -

we hear of moderate Muslims who claim they have assimilated into the mainstream America. That they are not like the bad guys on the TV. That they have become liberalized and are not fanatics.

I am asking an honest question - is leaving Islam for another religion any less dangerous in “moderate” or “liberal” Islamic families than it is in more strict ones? Is there any less risk of your family putting you to shame and abandoning you among “moderate” Muslims?

If this sounds bitter…pardon me but it is.

Muslims shouldn’t be libralized nor assimialted if it affects their faith. Bieng a fundamentalist in ones religion isnt bad . as long as one can still keep thing in perspective and understands other people point of view .

I think that a muslim who leaves his faith shouldnt be reated bad , but in the same time it shouldnt pass out like nothing has happened. Meaning that there should be continious advice to come back to Islam .

It is not the duty of muslism to liberalize or assimilate. They are what they are and this is part of the world we live in , we are all different.

best regards

meedo

 

[Booklover]

Muslims shouldn’t be libralized nor assimialted if it affects their faith. Bieng a fundamentalist in ones religion isnt bad . as long as one can still keep thing in perspective and understands other people point of view .

I think that a muslim who leaves his faith shouldnt be reated bad , but in the same time it shouldnt pass out like nothing has happened. Meaning that there should be continious advice to come back to Islam .

It is not the duty of muslism to liberalize or assimilate. They are what they are and this is part of the world we live in , we are all different.

best regards

meedo

That is very true that Muslims won’t assimilate in other countries!
They make demands to accommodate their faith and don’t reciprocate for non-Muslims in Muslim countries. All they do is demand, demand, demand and try to impose their way of life on others.

Instead of hedging, why don’t you just state that Islam calls for the DEATH of apostates!

Vickie

 

[Sister_Amy]

Liberal Muslim families?

There is no sect of “Liberal Islam.” Don’t even know what that is.

 

[markhiggins01]

Islam has neither hierarchy nor magisterium- no living authority mandated by its founder to prescribe the specific tenants of its faith.

Therefore a great deal, beyond the absolute essentials, is down to private interpretations.

There is not so much a religion called Islam but many Islams.

 

[R_not]

Read posts - the first one has references from a muslim - Walid Shoebat - and it has a radio interview of him and in it a muslim indeed says that he should be killed for being an apostate. The second one is a comment from one who listened to the radio interview.

#68 and #69
to learn how muslims feel about apostates from islam.

It isn’t a pretty scenario - it is death.

Here is a website from those who have left islam and they have had the guts enough to leave islam.

apostates of islam

They have articles in this website why islam is not from God, and why mohammed was not a prophet. They do not keep following:

"One who claims to be a messenger of God is expected to live a saintly life. He must not be given to lust, he must not be a sexual pervert, and he must not be a rapist, a highway robber, a war criminal, a mass murderer or an assassin. One who claims to be a messenger of God must have a superior character. He must stand above the vices of the people of his time. Yet Muhammad’s life is that of a gangster godfather. He raided merchant caravans, looted innocent people, massacred entire male populations and enslaved the women and children. He raped the women captured in war after killing their husbands and told his followers that it is okay to have sex with their captives and their “right hand possessions” (Quran 33:50) He assassinated those who criticized him and executed them when he came to power and became de facto despot of Arabia. Muhammad was bereft of human compassion. He was an obsessed man with his dreams of grandiosity and could not forgive those who stood in his way. Muhammad was a narcissist like Hitler, Saddam or Stalin. He was astute and knew how to manipulate people, but his emotional intelligence was less evolved than that of a 6-year-old child. He simply could not feel the pain of others. He brutally massacred thousands of innocent people and pillaged their wealth. His ambitions were big and as a narcissist he honestly believed he is entitled to do as he pleased and commit all sorts of crimes and his evil deeds are justified.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Islam has neither hierarchy nor magisterium- no living authority mandated by its founder to prescribe the specific tenants of its faith.

Therefore a great deal, beyond the absolute essentials, is down to private interpretations.

There is not so much a religion called Islam but many Islams.

There is one true Islam, it is the Islam followed by the Prophet Muhammad and his Companions–and they will never agree on an error in the religion. It is Ahl as-Sunnah wal-Jama’ah. The religion is divinely revealed, and is not subject to human “interpretations.”

 

[R_not]

There is one true Islam, it is the Islam followed by the Prophet Muhammad and his Companions–and they will never agree on an error in the religion. It is Ahl as-Sunnah wal-Jama’ah. The religion is divinely revealed, and is not subject to human “interpretations.”

Well, you got that right - there is only one islam. And we are seeing that the muslims entrenched in brainwashing can’t see evil if it came up and slapped them in the faces. Well, gee - in many cases the women should see it more so since they are quite often slapped, or punched, or worse…

That is too ‘convenient’ to say it is not subjuect to human ‘interpretations’ since WE ARE HUMANS! If your god can’t figure that out what good is it/allah?

Your god wasn’t too bright either since it didn’t even know that the earth revolved around the sun, or that man would leave ‘the zone of the earth’, or that having sex with children just might not be too good for the children - but ok for the nasty old geezers that are pediphiles!, etc.

It kept changing its mind depending on how mohammed felt that day. And it appears that mohammed’s mental health was on a steady decline as the ‘revelations’ came to be.

 

[emarc]

Read posts - the first one has references from a muslim - Walid Shoebat - and it has a radio interview of him and in it a muslim indeed says that he should be killed for being an apostate. The second one is a comment from one who listened to the radio interview.

#68 and #69
to learn how muslims feel about apostates from islam.

It isn’t a pretty scenario - it is death.

Here is a website from those who have left islam and they have had the guts enough to leave islam.

apostates of islam

They have articles in this website why islam is not from God, and why mohammed was not a prophet. They do not keep following:

that website you provided re walid shoebat #68 was powerful, an eyeopener for people like me who doesn’t know much about islam and its teachings. he strengthens my faith to the God Christians and Jews worship. thanks.
God bless.

 

[rtconstant]

Liberal Muslim families?

There is no sect of “Liberal Islam.” Don’t even know what that is.

No there isn’t a sect. The OP isn’t speaking of a whole sect though. OP was asking about individual Muslim families that are liberal relative to typically understood beliefs of the religion. These would be the peace loving, or moderate Muslims that are much touted by their brothers whenever terrorist actions take place, or when some Imam says something obscene in a sermon. These are the same ones that are sneered at whenever outsiders aren’t looking.

My girlfriend is one of these moderate Muslims, she is very conservative by any normal standard. However, by conservative Muslim standards she is a looked down upon as being a whore or bad girl because she is independent minded, and dates a non-Muslim. Even though we’ve never been physically intimate. She also had an honor-killing contract put out on her. Luckily her family changed their mind on that. Still we have to watch out where we eat and where we go in public so that she doesn’t “shame” her family.

 

[Sister_Amy]

So you’re talking about “Muslims” who can’t be bothered to actually practice Islam?

 

[Orogeny]

So you’re talking about “Muslims” who can’t be bothered to actually practice Islam?

Do you agree that the punishment for leaving Islam is death?

Peace

Tim

 

[emarc]

Do you agree that the punishment for leaving Islam is death?

Peace

Tim

good question, w/c i also wanted to ask after going to that website R_not had posted (http://www.moodyradio.org/brd_programarchive.aspx?id=11640). walid shoebat (now a Christian) claimed that muslims were taught in the koran to kill another muslim who converted to another faith. he asked a muslim who called during the interview that he was supposed to kill him (walid) following the koran because he is now a Christian, and the guy could not deny it. our God is a God of love and mercy - he knows we are fallen creatures and he wants us to come back to him. God demonstrates his love for us that while we’re yet sinners, he sent his Son Jesus to die for us (Rom 5). this is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who would not teach to kill someone who leaves the faith because, just as in the prodigal son, he’ll patiently wait for us to come home to him. God truly is a God of love.
God bless.

 

[markhiggins01]

There is one true Islam, it is the Islam followed by the Prophet Muhammad and his Companions–and they will never agree on an error in the religion. It is Ahl as-Sunnah wal-Jama’ah. The religion is divinely revealed, and is not subject to human “interpretations.”

You are living in a dream world…
The history of Islam shows a history of bickering over interpretations of Islamic law and what the Islam followed by Mohammed actually was. As you are well aware even today there are 4 main schools of law among Sunnis and what’s more there are different sects of Islam who split off at different points in the history of Islam.

You talk of the purity of the original community but this is nonsense, it is proved by the immediate civil wars following the death of Mohammed. Islam is intrinsicly debated with regards to its content. Should we follow Ali or the Kharajites, Mohammed’s kin or abu bakhr? From the very first no one could even answer that!

How very far it is from the unity and love in the Early Church! How far it is from “Thou art Peter and on this Rock I will build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it”!

 

[Sister_Amy]

Do you agree that the punishment for leaving Islam is death?

Peace

Tim

Not necessarily.

 

[jakasaki]

Not necessarily.

There are many videos on the net about apostates of islam and the other day while on you tube I found this one.

youtube.com/watch?v=0KSJYU1p3nI

It’s undercover reporting in a mosque in the UK - and the female islmaic teacher is teaching these women that based on islam, if someone leaves their faith, then it states for “death”.

A very interesting video to watch.

But I would also like to know how our muslim members feel about this “sort of teaching” in a mosque for women, but please don’t comment unless you watch the video.

Best regards,
Pam
New York

 

[jakasaki]

In addition to the above video I provided, there is a web site called…

الإسلام سؤال وجواب

And there was an interesting question about how to treat apostates here is the answer this person received from the sites sheikh.

(1) This is the ruling of Allaah and His Messenger, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever changes his religion, kill him.” (reported by al-Bukhaari, al-Fath, no. 3017).

(2) The one who has known the religion which Allaah revealed, entered it and practised it, then rejected it, despised it and left it, is a person who does not deserve to live on the earth of Allaah and eat from the provision of Allaah.

(3) By leaving Islaam, the apostate opens the way for everyone who wants to leave the faith, thus spreading apostasy and encouraging it.

(4) The apostate is not to be killed without warning. Even though his crime is so great, he is given a last chance, a respite of three days in which to repent. If he repents, he will be left alone; if he does not repent, then he will be killed.

(5) If the punishment for murder and espionage (also known as high treason) is death, then what should be the punishment for the one who disbelieves in the Lord of mankind and despises and rejects His religion? Is espionage or shedding blood worse than leaving the religion of the Lord of mankind and rejecting it?

(6) None of those who bleat about personal freedom and freedom of belief would put up with a neighbour’s child hitting their child or justify this as “personal freedom,” so how can they justify leaving the true religion and rejecting the sharee’ah which Allaah revealed to teach mankind about His unity and bring justice and fairness to all?

We ask Allaah for safety and health. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad .

islamqa.com/en/ref/811/apostasy

 

[Sister_Amy]

In addition to the above video I provided, there is a web site called…

islamqa.com

And there was an interesting question about how to treat apostates here is the answer this person received from the sites sheikh.

islamqa.com/en/ref/811/apostasy

May Allah protect him and keep him safe, and reward him for all the work he does.

I didn’t say “no” and I didn’t say “yes,” but I said “Not necessarily.” The answer from the sheikh (hafidhahullah) is a good answer–one I’ve referred to myself a couple times.

What’s also important to understand is the role of apostasy in early Islam–that it isn’t just changing one’s faith or creed, but in actuality committing treason and going to war with the Muslims. In such a case, absolutely, the penalty is death.

But there are other scholars you can check with who also point out that sometimes leaving the religion of Islam is not that kind of apostasy, and especially without an Islamic state to commit treason against, the penalty of death doesn’t quite make sense.

I don’t disagree with what the sheikh wrote. But sometimes that ruling does not apply. (Note, for instance, that he is in Saudi Arabia, and not the USA, where circumstances are drastically different.)