How do Mormons accept Joseph Smith's claims of having seen God

[JonathanKinsman]

Catholic Guy;

I’m sorry if you’ve read this before but Zerinus is a hit-and-run proselytizer on these threads.

He has stock answers: “I have the testimony of the Holy Spirit” “The Catholic Church went into Apostasy” “I know that the Mormon church is the one true church.”

He will not answer direct questions. He WILL pick some phrase or statement from a poster or from a document (patristic or CCC) and then say it supports his dogma-du-jour.

Check out his history here at Catholic Answers. His syntax and spelling changes quite a bit, going from American English spelling and usage to British/Canadian. In fact, many of us think that Zerinus is a cover for a few of these Mormonites who’s sole purpose is to hit-and-run the threads with their goofy pantheology.

Pax Christi

Jonathan

 

[Catholic_Guy]

Catholic Guy;

I’m sorry if you’ve read this before but Zerinus is a hit-and-run proselytizer on these threads.

He has stock answers: “I have the testimony of the Holy Spirit” “The Catholic Church went into Apostasy” “I know that the Mormon church is the one true church.”

He will not answer direct questions. He WILL pick some phrase or statement from a poster or from a document (patristic or CCC) and then say it supports his dogma-du-jour.

Check out his history here at Catholic Answers. His syntax and spelling changes quite a bit, going from American English spelling and usage to British/Canadian. In fact, many of us think that Zerinus is a cover for a few of these Mormonites who’s sole purpose is to hit-and-run the threads with their goofy pantheology.

Pax Christi

Jonathan

Jonathan,

Sadly I have noticed this for sometime. I believe he has changed his screen name more than once, I think Amgid was his second one, I don’t remember his first one. No matter, he would rarely answer my questions because of my ex-mormon status anyway. As far as him being British/Canadian, I suspect he is actually a Kiwi with the screen name Pahoran on the Mormon Apologetics and Discussion Board. If he is not the same character, his posting style resembles Pahoran’s on more than one level.

Pax Christi,

Catholic Guy

P.S. I think i will use my last post as a new thread.

 

[artist3189]

Catholic Guy;

I’m sorry if you’ve read this before but Zerinus is a hit-and-run proselytizer on these threads.

He has stock answers: “I have the testimony of the Holy Spirit” “The Catholic Church went into Apostasy” “I know that the Mormon church is the one true church.”

He will not answer direct questions. He WILL pick some phrase or statement from a poster or from a document (patristic or CCC) and then say it supports his dogma-du-jour.

Check out his history here at Catholic Answers. His syntax and spelling changes quite a bit, going from American English spelling and usage to British/Canadian. In fact, many of us think that Zerinus is a cover for a few of these Mormonites who’s sole purpose is to hit-and-run the threads with their goofy pantheology.

Pax Christi

Jonathan

This is all so weird, are there more than one using that name or other names, boy, that is really sad, and sick. They are the biggest bunch of cowards I’ve ever seen. I think it’s great that someone has the knowledge of Latin to challenge them like that. The lier’s and the lies they spread. Real discussion, like with fellow Christians, about the ‘Church’ and differences in various religious ‘traditions’ is time well spent. This is wild, and strange and I think might reveal the mentality of these people…totally programmed, and on auto pilot with any ability to cross-examine their own beliefs and teaching completely shut down. Mind control of the oddest sort. It sort of un-nerves me a bit because I associate this type of control with small, charismatic cults and the Mormon Church is fairly large I believe, so how the heck do they do it without any major rifts occurring by the rational people still inside? I know very little of the workings of the LDS Church. I have a lot of contact with the ‘door knockers’ and general membership as a Church is only 1/4 mile from me, but very little is said about the organization. I’m glad people here can smell a rat.

 

[PaulDupre]

This is wild, and strange and I think might reveal the mentality of these people…totally programmed, and on auto pilot with any ability to cross-examine their own beliefs and teaching completely shut down. Mind control of the oddest sort. It sort of un-nerves me a bit because I associate this type of control with small, charismatic cults and the Mormon Church is fairly large I believe, so how the heck do they do it without any major rifts occurring by the rational people still inside?

Fear. Fear of shunning, excommunication, losing their families, losing their business connections. The rational people still inside (if there are any) just shut up and play the game.

When I presented my bishop with the letter explaining why I wanted my name taken off the records, he said he understood that I didn’t believe the church was “true”, but he was puzzled as to why I would want to leave. He said “we have a very nice life here in the church - do you want to give that up?”. Then he suggested that I just stay in the church, keep my mouth shut and enjoy life.

Needless to say, I did not follow his advice and had my name taken off the records. My wife and I instantly lost all of our “friends” and the members of the ward created and spread vicious lies about us. My still-LDS brother and sister and their families still shun me after 20 years. That is what the “rational people still inside” are afraid of. They’ve seen it happen to others. They know that it would happen to them, too. Most of them are from LDS families. They would lose those families if they left.

You’ve seen the nasty way the LDS on this forum disparage “apostates”. That’s the way my LDS relatives feel about me. They told me, when I left, that all apostates eventually wind up in the gutter. Well, it’s been 20 years and I’m still gutter-free.

Lord have mercy on the Mormons.
Paul

 

[artist3189]

Fear. Fear of shunning, excommunication, losing their families, losing their business connections. The rational people still inside (if there are any) just shut up and play the game.

When I presented my bishop with the letter explaining why I wanted my name taken off the records, he said he understood that I didn’t believe the church was “true”, but he was puzzled as to why I would want to leave. He said “we have a very nice life here in the church - do you want to give that up?”. Then he suggested that I just stay in the church, keep my mouth shut and enjoy life.

Needless to say, I did not follow his advice and had my name taken off the records. My wife and I instantly lost all of our “friends” and the members of the ward created and spread vicious lies about us. My still-LDS brother and sister and their families still shun me after 20 years. That is what the “rational people still inside” are afraid of. They’ve seen it happen to others. They know that it would happen to them, too. Most of them are from LDS families. They would lose those families if they left.

You’ve seen the nasty way the LDS on this forum disparage “apostates”. That’s the way my LDS relatives feel about me. They told me, when I left, that all apostates eventually wind up in the gutter. Well, it’s been 20 years and I’m still gutter-free.

Lord have mercy on the Mormons.
Paul

Wow, I am blown away by this, my heart goes out to you and you family. I find that so hard to understand being ‘shunned’ by your own brother and his family. Is that sort of treatment, encouraged by the LDS as a means of ‘control’ rather than reconciliation? Funny, but reconciliation, with God, with the Church and with ‘each other’, especially family members has been a MAJOR theme with the RCC for many years now. Just the opposite. My sister, in Cali, has been in the ‘New Age’ movement for 30 years, all kinds of groups, MSIA, (look them up) you name it. She moved to Cali during the hippie heyday. Looking for answers and found it in the ME centered movements. But we still loved each other, and always got together, and we would have great ‘discussions’, but other than that, family is family and I love her no matter what. Thank God she has been moving away from that way of thinking and doing more and more reading and studying about the RCC. She finally realized it’s about being God centered, not ME centered. She is a thinker, an investigator and I have hope now she will be a strong re-vert before too long. Keep praying Paul.

 

[AWall]

Fear. Fear of shunning, excommunication, losing their families, losing their business connections. The rational people still inside (if there are any) just shut up and play the game.

When I presented my bishop with the letter explaining why I wanted my name taken off the records, he said he understood that I didn’t believe the church was “true”, but he was puzzled as to why I would want to leave. He said “we have a very nice life here in the church - do you want to give that up?”. Then he suggested that I just stay in the church, keep my mouth shut and enjoy life.

Needless to say, I did not follow his advice and had my name taken off the records. My wife and I instantly lost all of our “friends” and the members of the ward created and spread vicious lies about us. My still-LDS brother and sister and their families still shun me after 20 years. That is what the “rational people still inside” are afraid of. They’ve seen it happen to others. They know that it would happen to them, too. Most of them are from LDS families. They would lose those families if they left.

You’ve seen the nasty way the LDS on this forum disparage “apostates”. That’s the way my LDS relatives feel about me. They told me, when I left, that all apostates eventually wind up in the gutter. Well, it’s been 20 years and I’m still gutter-free.

Lord have mercy on the Mormons.
Paul

So, so true. We had our names removed too. My husband is completely shunned by his parents and several sisters. To the point they destroy and send back the remains of Christmas cards we send. They will have nothing to do with our children. They shun their grandkids! What did the kids do? He has lost most of his family b/c of this cult. It is very sad.

I’m glad you are doing well Paul, they hate that. It doesn’t compute with them that people can leave and be successful. We are too. It’s taken us a long time though to overcome the hurt and be able to pray for them. (It’s still hard sometimes).

 

[christianley]

Smith’s first vision in which he claims to have seen God conflicts with the Bible, which says, “No man hath seen God at any time”(John 1:18, 1 John 4:12). In Exodus 33:20, God also says, “There shall no man see me and live.” Men cannot see God beacause He is Spirit(JOHN 4:24), and spirit is invisible( Col. 1:15, 1 Tim. 1:17), Invisible means it cannot be seen. 1 Tim. 6:16 also says He “dwells in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen nor can see.” I would like to understand how mormons accept Joseph Smith’s claims.

Mormons can accept the idea that ancient Hebrews migrated to America and started a civilization here. They can accept as fact that Jesus Christ visited the Americas, a Christian Church flourished here for hundreds of years and then completely disappeared. They can accept that an angel brought gold plates to Joseph Smith. They can accept all kinds of things that don’t make sense. How hard would it be for them to believe Joseph Smith saw God the Father in the flesh? Joseph Smith didn’t even bother to mention this to anyone until the late 1830s after the LDS Church had been organized for several years. They were ready to believe almost anything (even polygamy) by then.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

What I want to know (and maybe that erudite Mormon scholar Zerinus can help) is this:

Why didn’t Joseph Smith show God the Golden Tablets and ask for verification as to their authenticity?

Is the angel Moroni equal to God?

Gee, Moses got his tablets from God, why not Joseph Smith??

What’s good for Moses should have been good for Smith.

 

[Sixtus]

How do Mormons accept Joseph Smith’s claims of having seen God

Perhaps he did!

What is so unusual about that?

All Orthodox and Catholics have seen Him, so why not Joseph Smith?