How do Mormons View Eve & the Fall vs Catholics?

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Where does it not in the Scriptures?

And where is transgression shown in the Scriptures to positively effect the transgressor?

Mormons view this positively, I’m already aware. How do they get from point A to point B though? I don’t follow.,.
 
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Lemuel said:
the conditions of mortality.
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But there was no need for mortality had they been obedient to God in the first place because they could already procreation by His word & they were already in communion with Him…

Does this just boil down to their own unique interpretation on the matter then?

It doesn’t agree with thousands of years of history & Scripture as it has been understood, but they make a new interpretation out of the blue, & this is authoritative based on what?
 
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kainosktisis said:
Does this just boil down to their own unique interpretation on the matter then?

It doesn’t agree with thousands of years of history & Scripture as it has been understood, but they make a new interpretation out of the blue, & this is authoritative based on what?
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It’s authoritative based on “modern revelation” and “modern scripture”.
 
I’m already aware of this having relatives who’re Mormon who’d converted back in the 1980s. I’m just trying to figure out how they get from one thing to another because I’m not reading it in the Scriptures, nor do I know of anything historically related to any of this that supports their beliefs…Just saying…

Modern revelation & modern Scripture from their Prophet(s)? By whose authority?
 
kainosktisis said:
I’m already aware of this having relatives who’re Mormon who’d converted back in the 1980s. I’m just trying to figure out how they get from one thing to another because I’m not reading it in the Scriptures, nor do I know of anything historically related to any of this that supports their beliefs…Just saying…

Modern revelation & modern Scripture from their Prophet(s)? By whose authority?
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Their authority comes from a restoration of the priesthood. The lower priesthood was restored to Joseph Smith by John the Baptist and the higher priesthood was restored to Joseph Smith through the apostles Peter, James and John.

If you believe any of this . . . which neither of us do.
 
What evidence do they provide for the need for any restoration? Can they point to this historically?

What role did John the Baptist play in a lower priesthood? No such thing was started by him as far as I can tell Scripturally & historically…

Regarding the higher priesthood, I thought that was God the Father, God the Son, & God the Holy Spirit that had originally appeared in that first vision restoring said priesthood according to the original report of it…Am I wrong…?
 
kainosktisis said:
What evidence do they provide for the need for any restoration? Can they point to this historically?
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The restoration of the priesthood is nothing but a boondoggle. I can’t begin here to explain it. You would need to study their history to understand it.

The lower priesthood includes the authority to baptize and John the Baptist held that priesthood. He was the one who, by the laying on of hands, restored the keys of the Aaronic Priesthood (the lower priesthood) to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. The only proof of this is, of course, their word. And if you get that tingly good feeling in your bosom, you know that it’s true.

The higher priesthood includes all of the keys and powers to act in God’s name. Only the apostles have those keys. They can pass them on to the subsequent apostles, also by laying on of hands. Peter, James and John were apostles holding that authority and priesthood and rightfully could pass them on to Joseph and Oliver. Again, all you have as proof is their word. The higher priesthood is the Priesthood after the order of the Son of God, also referred to in the Mormonite church as the Melchizedek Priesthood.
kainosktisis said:
Am I wrong…?
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If I understand your question, then you are wrong according to Mormonite history. The first vision, in which Joseph saw God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, was just that, a vision. It did not include restoring the priesthood. That happened years later.
 
Ah, ok. Thank you for the clarification.

So in stating that John the Baptist baptized authoritatively through the Aaronic Priesthood, & he’d baptized Jesus, was he supposed to have endowed Jesus with the authority to baptize then according to their theology?

How did we get to Aaronic vs Melchizedek Priesthoods…?

How do they know that it was Peter, James, & John who held the keys when Scripture affirms it was Peter to whom the keys were given…?
 
Lemuel said:
The restoration of the priesthood is nothing but a boondoggle. I can’t begin here to explain it. You would need to study their history to understand it.
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That’s why I keep going back to the gap. It’s ridiculous and unscriptural to posit that the whole church got corrupted and lost the faith for a thousand years. It also violates 1 Tim 2:3-4 and John 17 among many others.
 
kainosktisis said:
So in stating that John the Baptist baptized authoritatively through the Aaronic Priesthood, & he’d baptized Jesus, was he supposed to have endowed Jesus with the authority to baptize then according to their theology?
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No. Jesus already had the authority. It’s His priesthood. The only reason he went to John the Baptist to be baptized was to fulfill all righteousness. Baptism is required to enter into the Kingdom of God.
kainosktisis said:
How did we get to Aaronic vs Melchizedek Priesthoods…?
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I don’t know. But when you make up a story out of thin air, just make it good.
kainosktisis said:
How do they know that it was Peter, James, & John who held the keys when Scripture affirms it was Peter to whom the keys were given…?
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Because they identified themselves as such.
 
gazelam said:
And believe me, Latter-day Saint talk about big G God when we talk of The Father.
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Y’all use the big G when you talk about other Gods as well.

Just as an example, the hymn, “Praise to the Man”

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.
 
A couple of points:

The words transgression and sin are not synonymous in Mormonism. Transgression is more of a lesser offense, without the same repercussions as sin. Transgression occurs when going against the will of God, because God would like the rebellion to happen. Mormons see this as a good thing. Required for growth towards godhood.

The Mormon God is a trickster god, and will say, don’t do this, while really meaning, do this. The Mormon God wanted Adam and Eve to transgress, while at the same time commanding them not to sin.

Yes, this is one of the more diabolical teachings of Jos. Smith.

To Mormons, when Eve was tempted with the forbidden fruit, to become like a god, that is God’s truth. Satan was telling her and Adam what they needed to do in order to become gods. In this story of Adam and Eve, Mormons believe the tempter.
 
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I know, right? I get those how those raised in the LDS can be true believers but I will never understand how Christians can go from believing in truth to believing in LDS theory.
 
There are several good questions in this thread and I haven’t had time to engage them all. And this is a topic that I do not fully understand, but I embrace the Latter-day Saint teaching on this topic that I do understand.
kainosktisis said:
But there was no need for mortality had they been obedient to God in the first place because they could already procreation by His word & they were already in communion with Him…
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The problem here is that Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden, and in the end that’s ultimately not the preferred place to be. Revelation 12:8, 9 tells us that Satan was cast out of Heaven forever. But where did he go? Right to the Garden of Eden to tempt Adam and Eve. (See Genesis 3.) So, if you were Adam and Eve, would you want to remain in a place where the Devil is allowed to be, or Heaven where the Devil can no longer be? And if you’re already immortal in the Garden of Eden, how would you get to Heaven? By being cast out of the Garden, and thereby partaking of death, and then being redeemed by Christ. That gets you to Heaven where the Devil cannot go.

Also, CS Lewis made this observation (and he definitely was NOT a Latter-day Saint): Redeemed humanity is to be something more glorious than unfallen humanity would have been, more glorious than any unfallen race is now.

To go from unfallen to redeemed there is a need for mortality. I hope this helps…
 
In my opinion any explanation involving the Garden of Eden story has to have the basic teaching that prior to the fall we didn’t have a conscience and after the fall we do.
 
Why not rely on what the Bible says about Adam & Eve? It makes sense. The version you present does not. God doesn’t play tricks on us, he is a straight forward God. Do this and you will be blessed, don’t do this or face the consequences.

From Genesis 3 to Christ is a very long time, thousands of years. You seemed to have missed out on a great deal of God’s work there.
 
Horton said:
God doesn’t play tricks on us, he is a straight forward God
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For years while I was still active in the church I called it the gospel of fine print.

No matter what you do, you will never be acceptable to the Mormon god.
 
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gazelam said:
The problem here is that Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden, and in the end that’s ultimately not the preferred place to be.
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How do you figure this when in Revelation, the elect are in the Garden with the Tree of Life & the nations using its leaves for healing?

Rev 2 KJV (BibleHub): 7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Rev 22 KJV (BibleHub)::

1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. 5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

I believe that by the end of Revelation, the devil has been cast into the abyss & can no longer create trouble for man.

Also CS Lewis was not LDS, nor did he subscribe to their beliefs. I would say that his words do not mean what the LDS Church assume them to mean. His words must be taken in context.
 
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