How do (most) of your Protestant friends see the Catholic Church?

[laylow]

Wow. What did you say back?

I haven’t responded. But since I no longer attend the church and do not believe in hell, it wasn’t quite as profoundly impactful on my mind. However, it seemed like quite a vile thing to say.

 

[MichaelP3]

In my opinion you missed an option that goes something like this:

“Does not view it at all. Knows nothing about it and if ever, has a very neutral opinion”

That would describe 99% of the Non-Catholics I know.

 

[otjm]

My experience has been that Protestant opinions about the Church are all over the map, and I find most of them appear to have 2 sources; one being ignorance of the matter being discussed, and the other being a 4 to 5 hundred year history of repeated (and often twisted) opinions.

A few years ago I had a job, and one of my bosses was a retired Episcopal priest. At his offer, I accompanied him to a joint Lenten Friday soup supper. The supper was part of a series for lent, and as the Catholic parish had the most room for people, it was held at the parish; but it was hosted each week by a different local church. This one happened to be hosted by the Lutherans.

as the supper was ending, it was the norm that the pastor of the church hosting would say a few words; so the Lutheran pastor got up - and proceeded to take a couple of pot shots at the CAtholic Church.

I looked at my boss, and he gave me a look like “Does he really have to do that?”

We both chose to be amused at the rudeness. And no, I am not presuming that all Lutheran pastors are so inclined; just that while we have theological differences, some of those seem fueled by a very deep emotional bias.

 

[Sean77]

Speaking as a Protestant, I would say that you see the whole range of responses you posted in your survey for a host of reasons. Some of which as some point out have to do with the faith traditions of their particular denomination. Personally, I consider myself catholic in the original sense of the word (small c meaning adhering to the apostolic faith as recorded in scripture - as opposed to Catholic which typically infers Roman Catholic vs. the Eastern Orthodox churches). I am proud to do so. Others, which adhere to some of the more radical elements of the reformation may or may not have a problem with that. This may be due to the faith traditions from which they came, or particular doctrinal issues that exists between their denomination and the Roman Catholic Church. Others may simply have a false understanding of Catholic doctrine. Just as you can probably identify people within your church who have been catechized poorly, we too often have the same misunderstandings due to poor catechesis. Ironically, the same can be said for Catholics who do not understand Protestant doctrines. One of the big ones I commonly see grossly misrepresented, particularly by the Apologetics writers on this site, is “Sola Scriptura” which is usually reduced to a straw man argument that we do not hold. One of the challenges I think is for Catholics and Protestants to engage in a civil manner so that we can understand the doctrinal differences between one another.

 

[catholic1seeks]

I consider myself catholic in the original sense of the word (small c meaning adhering to the apostolic faith as recorded in scripture - as opposed to Catholic which typically infers Roman Catholic vs. the Eastern Orthodox churches).

But was this the original sense of the word “Catholic”?

As far as I can see, the early figures always referenced “Catholic” in the sense of “the universal, visible church in accord with apostolic succession ---- and not this sectarian group over there” In other words, a visible, identifiable communion.

“Roman Catholic” is not a name adopted by the Catholic Church (united in Rome) itself, but was post-Reformation. And as for the Orthodox, their situation is different, since they are Catholic churches but in schism. And so, they basically retain the same meaning as “Catholic” as the (“Roman”) Catholic Church does, only with a different understanding of who is in schism.

Think of it this way: If “Catholic” simply meant “small c catholic” in the sense of “all Christians,” then how does that make sense of the early Christians who clearly used “Catholic” to identify this church from that church or sect? In other words, I don’t think this theory of “small c catholic” holds up.

 

[Spyridon]

Yes the church condoned it.

Filthy satanic lie.

 

[Pup7]

A few years ago I had a job, and one of my bosses was a retired Episcopal priest. At his offer, I accompanied him to a joint Lenten Friday soup supper. The supper was part of a series for lent, and as the Catholic parish had the most room for people, it was held at the parish; but it was hosted each week by a different local church. This one happened to be hosted by the Lutherans.

as the supper was ending, it was the norm that the pastor of the church hosting would say a few words; so the Lutheran pastor got up - and proceeded to take a couple of pot shots at the CAtholic Church.

I looked at my boss, and he gave me a look like “Does he really have to do that?”

We both chose to be amused at the rudeness. And no, I am not presuming that all Lutheran pastors are so inclined; just that while we have theological differences, some of those seem fueled by a very deep emotional bias.

We need a horror button.

That has got to be one of the most un-Christian things I’ve ever heard.

 

[TC3033]

Meh, the pastor at my wife’s Catholic church does it to Non-Catholics all the time.

I just kind of roll with it now.

 

[Pup7]

I am NO theologian, and I’m probably opening up a can of worms I can’t defend, but as a Methodist we said the Apostle’s Creed every Sunday, and we did say “the holy catholic church” and not “the holy Catholic church”. (We also said the creed unaltered, in the event some don’t know that - communion of saints, the whole deal, although the interpretation is a bit different.) We considered ourselves to be one as Christians, the universal church, not the universal Church, with all who share Christian beliefs.

@Sean77, is that more of what you mean? I don’t know what denomination you are, but I know what we believed as Methodists.

 

[Pup7]

Meh, the pastor at my wife’s Catholic church does it to Non-Catholics all the time.

I just kind of roll with it now.

I don’t look at that any more favorably. That’s terrible as well.

 

[Zaccheus]

Most Protestants I know believe that Catholicism is the whore of Babylon. They’re convinced that the Catholic Church teaches idolatry and man-made doctrine.

My best friend, when he became a Christian, was convinced the Catholic Church was the Whore of Babylon. To such a degree that he demanded I refrain from praying for him on the grounds that my prayers were not lawful.
He has since changed a great deal and no longer believes that. Still, he’s not a Catholic. (Wistful). It would be so nice if he was.

 

[catholic1seeks]

Even in the books at our own parish, it is “catholic” church, which is referencing the creed. But we have to ask what the Creed is corresponding to. At the time, especially by the Nicene Creed, Christians everywhere knew what “Catholic” meant— the Church united to the bishops in communion with each other, especially the Bishop of Rome.

"Catholic"

The word "Catholic" provokes a storm of controversy among Christians, alternately being coveted and reviled by different groups of non-Catholics. Some non-Catholics revile the term because they hate the Church with which it is associated, and a few loathe the very term itself.

www.catholic.com

“And if you ever are visiting in cities, do not inquire simply where the house of the Lord is—for the others, sects of the impious, attempt to call their dens ‘houses of the Lord’—nor ask merely where the Church is, but where is the Catholic Church. For this is the name peculiar to this holy Church, the mother of us all, which is the spouse of our Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God” -Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures 18:23, A.D. 350.

 

[Pup7]

I agree - but other denominations use it as an expression of the Christian faith. Therefore, the interpretation is “catholic”. I know what it eventually came to be, but the Greek does mean “universal”.

That doesn’t make the Protestants wrong for using it. After all, we ARE united in a Christian belief, even if we don’t think the others are “right” (for the record, they don’t either to a point - otherwise, they wouldn’t exist).

 

[catholic1seeks]

I guess you could have a point, insofar as we describe the “one, holy, catholic, and apostolic” church as the Creed uses it in merely descriptive senses.

But for Christians at the time of the Creed, “Catholic Church” definitely equated to the visible communion of a particular church.

So when “Catholic Church” is thrown around, as early as 2nd century, it meant a visible communion as OPPOSED to this or that other group that claimed to be fully Christian as well.

 

[Pup7]

But they don’t talk about the 2nd century in that context. (They do, they’re not theologically devoid, I mean within the creed as it’s said on Sunday.)

They’re talking about post-Reformation, away from Catholicism.

I swear I’m not trying to argue - just trying to present the Protestant train of thought.

Theirs is not “Catholic Church”. It is “catholic church”.

 

[catholic1seeks]

The person I was originally responding to said “how it was originally used.”

See this article on what “Catholic” originally meant and how it was actually used:

"Catholic"

The word "Catholic" provokes a storm of controversy among Christians, alternately being coveted and reviled by different groups of non-Catholics. Some non-Catholics revile the term because they hate the Church with which it is associated, and a few loathe the very term itself.

www.catholic.com

The attempt by non-Catholics to claim “catholic” for themselves is not new. Heretics and schismatics in the fourth century tried to claim the term, yet their attempts proved unsuccessful. In 397 Augustine pointed this out using an illustration from everyday life. "[T]he very name of Catholic . . . belongs to this Church alone . . . so much so that, although all heretics want to be called catholic,' when a stranger inquires where the Catholic Church meets, none of the heretics would dare to point out his own basilica or house" (Against the Letter of Mani Called The Foundation’ 4:5).

Augustine also remarked that the Church “is called Catholic not only by her own members but even by all her enemies. For when heretics or the adherents of schisms talk about her … with strangers . . . they call her nothing else but Catholic. For they will not be understood unless they distinguish her by this name which the whole world employs in her regard.” [The True Religion 7:12, ca. A.D. 390]. Thus the fact that the Church is generally or universally (catholically) called “Catholic” forms part of its title to that name.

That “Catholic” very early acquired its modern sense of denoting a particular group of churches united in a single, visible communion is important for how we read the writings of the Church Fathers and how we read early creeds. Protestants accept the Apostles’ Creed and the Nicene Creed, which make reference to the Catholic Church. The Apostles’ Creed states, “I believe . . . in the Holy Catholic Church”; the Nicene creed states, “I believe . . . in One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.” Both of these statements were written after “Catholic” had acquired its current meaning.

 

[Pup7]

Like I said, a theological can of worms.

I assure you that is not what is going through the heads of the Presbyterians and the Methodists and whomever says it on Sunday in a Protestant congregation. That was not my intent.

That is not what they mean, and that is their context.

 

[MichaelP3]

At the time, especially by the Nicene Creed, Christians everywhere knew what “Catholic” meant— the Church united to the bishops in communion with each other, especially the Bishop of Rome.

Did they??? Did they really? (Well just look at the Orthodox and that’s already one eyebrow lifted, as you stated that, before we even attempt to evem discuss any kind of detail)

 

[catholic1seeks]

That’s fine that they do not mean that!

Again, I meant a friendly challenge to the original poster whom I was responding to, who claims to use “Catholic” as it was originally used. But neither Catholics or Orthodox understand it like this, nor do early Christians who use the term “Catholic Church.”

 

[catholic1seeks]

I was exceptionally careful in how I phrased this. Yes, even learned Orthodox would accept this. For I said “bishops in communion with EACH OTHER,” and, additionally, no learned Orthodox would reject that communion with ROME in the early centuries was significant and important to church unity.

If such an Orthodox said otherwise, he would be forgetting Cyprian of the 3rd century.