How do Muslims rationalize the actions of Muhammad?

[R_not]

That doesn’t even make sense. I’m not really defending anything here, I’m just making a point about how frustrating all the BS on the forum is, since I’ve been away for a while and now the full stench is striking me.

It’s good to learn about Islam from the sources of Islam–but that’s actually not what the folks here are doing. What they are actually doing is going to the enemies of Islam who have already taken the sources of Islam and distorted them.

So you’ve read portions of the Qur’an–is that supposed to impress me. Would you be impressed, for instance, if I said I’ve read portions of the Bible? I don’t think that’s very impressive. Doesn’t really amount to a hill of beans, if I may be honest.

But I have read “portions of the Qur’an” too. In fact, I’ve read the whole thing, and more than once. I’ve read a variety of Islamic texts (or “portions of” lol) and I’ve studied subjects with a qualified teacher (a shaykh who is qualified to teach islamic law.)

And I’m convinced that my opinion about Islam is correct, and that yours is wrong.

How can that be? Do you really think I haven’t studied Islam? Just a question.

Since ‘enemy of islam’ is anyone who doesn’t want to be a muslim or subjugated to it and knows about mohammed - it doesn’t take much to be an enemy.

But, by a normal person’s definition of enemy - we are not enemies. You can believe what you want, just don’t tell us that we cannot or tell us that we should observe muslim law. And that is where the problem arises because muslims think that everyone should be subjugated to this religion with an inferiority complex so everyone can bask in ignorance, violence/hatred and fear.

No one has distorted your texts. In fact, quite the opposite. When you say that islam, and mohammed, are peaceful - you are distorting it since the stronger, Medina surahs tell muslims to war with us, to deceive us, to make us subjugated to you. And we see muslim’s societies. They are backward junk holes that do nothing about the cruelty against non-muslims, or even their own women!

Actions speak louder than words and lies are always uncovered. mohammed never learned that lesson from his mommy before she died, bless her soul.

 

[brigantine]

Which accusations?

(And no, I haven’t read through the however-many pages of this thread, nor have I the intention of doing so. If you want me to “refute the accusations” please specify which accusations so I can get on with it then.)

I’m not going to repeat them or respond to you if you are unwilling to take the time to read the thread that supposedly is upsetting you.

 

[planten]

It is to me a testimony to the greatness of Muhammad (pbuh) that this forum and the Catholics on it will not cease their attacks against his character in order to smear Islam.

Rather than promote the validity of their own religion (that is, Catholicism), they are forced to attempt to brainwash members regarding Islam.

** Very good Sis Amy. Thanks, You have analysed the Catholics effort very well. They have nothing good in their own religion so they are busy abusing Islam and the Prophet Muhammad**.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Sister Amy I understand your frustration but by attacking people instead of addressing the issues is not going to win your argument.

Perhaps the problem, then, is that the people are the issues.

Are you serious? This is your defence?

What was I defending? And from what? The poster basically agreed that he was twisting and distorting evidence which in many cases wasn’t authentic (meaning, fabricated), and then accused me of interpreting it. The sheer silliness of such a claim does not require a defense.

 

[Sister_Amy]

I’m not going to repeat them or respond to you if you are unwilling to take the time to read the thread that supposedly is upsetting you.

I figured as much–you weren’t really interested in my responses in the first place. Glad I didn’t waste my time preparing them.

 

[sedonaman]

It’s good to learn about Islam from the sources of Islam–but that’s actually not what the folks here are doing. What they are actually doing is going to the enemies of Islam who have already taken the sources of Islam and distorted them.

Give a direct quote from one of the “enemies of Islam” and explain logically how he “distorted” a source of Islam; and don’t use that tired excuse that he “took it out of context”, and don’t use logical fallacies, like “there’s violence in the Bible, too.”

 

[R_not]

** Very good Sis Amy. Thanks, You have analysed the Catholics effort very well. They have nothing good in their own religion so they are busy abusing Islam and the Prophet Muhammad**.

Once again abuse is a relative term, isn’t it planten?

When we show you your texts about mohammed - the ones you don’t want for us to know about - you call it abuse.

It is like sister amy telling us that we are enemies. It is more redefining of words in islam.

You cannot rationalize mohammed’s terrible deeds after he started islam. So you attack people on these threads behaving as if they are wrong when they are not. They have only used your own texts.

If you don’t like squirming and defending the indefensible then why do you continue to be muslims? That is what I don’t understand. but, I don’t care either way - you will end out believing what you want. You can call us all the names in the world and that we are bad people or bad Catholics because that is what you will do.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Give a direct quote from one of the “enemies of Islam” and explain logically how he “distorted” a source of Islam; and don’t use that tired excuse that he “took it out of context”, and don’t use logical fallacies, like “there’s violence in the Bible, too.”

No. I do not go to the “enemies of Islam.”

I have a sneaking suspicion (yet to be confirmed) that the pages of this thread are riddled with that sort of nonsense, but I’m not going to go and find it for you.

If you’ve got something about Islam that you know is from the enemies of Islam, then why don’t you present it to me, and we’ll see if it’s distorted, out of context (which is an honest explanation, not a tired excuse), or completely bogus.

 

[chrisse]

It is to me a testimony to the greatness of Muhammad (pbuh) that this forum and the Catholics on it will not cease their attacks against his character in order to smear Islam.

Rather than promote the validity of their own religion (that is, Catholicism), they are forced to attempt to brainwash members regarding Islam.

Madam, the topic in these particular forums is ISLAM and its tenets. Islam : the qur’an, hadiths and sunnah (popularly known as the trilogy of hate).

There are many other areas on this forum where there are topics relevant to the Catholic faith; topics on islam are not included in that.

We do not need to justify the Lord before evil; it is evil who needs to justify itself to the Lord. The Lord, however, unlike mohammet, is the TRUTH.

 

[chrisse]

No. I do not go to the “enemies of Islam.”

I have a sneaking suspicion (yet to be confirmed) that the pages of this thread are riddled with that sort of nonsense, but I’m not going to go and find it for you.

If you’ve got something about Islam that you know is from the enemies of Islam, then why don’t you present it to me, and we’ll see if it’s distorted, out of context (which is an honest explanation, not a tired excuse), or completely bogus.

Wow, who’d a thunk the enemies of Islam was the Saudi Arabian Religious Nazis and the other officially approved islamic sites.

 

[sedonaman]

Is there any logic there? Because that paragraph doesn’t make a lick of sense.

That’s because you refuse to admit that putting the Qur’an in context is interpreting it.

There is not a single passage in the Qur’an which I consider to be “embarrassing.” But there are a number of passages which are taken out of their context, twisted, and distorted to defame Islam.

Name one and give its correct “context”.

The interpretation thus is a lie–a human interpretation, a non-Muslim interpretation. That’s the stuff you’ve been reading.

How would you know that what an Islamic scholar [a human!!!] told you about Islam was true without his having interpreted its texts? How do you establish a belief without interpreting foundational texts? And who does the interpreting? Humans. That’s what scholars do; that is, unless of course your scholars are not really scholars at all but charlatans.

When I put it back in context, I’m rather doing the opposite of interpreting. I’m presenting it to you unadulterated.

Then would you please define “context”?

Not one word in the Qur’an is Muhammad’s.

Then what good is it?

None of you truly believes until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself.

An authentic hadith.

That means Muslim brother. It couldn’t possibly mean a non-believer brother, now could it?

… the Islamic “Golden Rule” was quoted by the most popular person on the planet–Barack Obama.

This is one of the funniest things you have said. 0bama is not a religious authority of any kind. Here is an example of his theology:

"…[Rev. Wright] introduced me to someone named Jesus Christ. I learned that my sins could be redeemed. …”

Can you tell me what is theologically wrong with that statement?

Another thing. A person’s popularity does not determine what he says is true. Can’t you make an argument without using a fallacy?

This statement is really inexcusable, entirely backwards. It shows that you know nothing about Muhammad, saws.

Your evasiveness indicates you are the one who doesn’t know anything about Mohammed … or you are in denial.

 

[sedonaman]

** Very good Sis Amy. Thanks, You have analysed the Catholics effort very well. **.

By “analyzed”, do you mean she actually interpreted it?

 

[sedonaman]

If you’ve got something about Islam that you know is from the enemies of Islam, then why don’t you present it to me, and we’ll see if it’s distorted, out of context (which is an honest explanation, not a tired excuse), or completely bogus.

Oh, fine. You make a claim; I’m supposed to substantiate it. That’s not the way debate is supposed to work. If you are not going to prove your claims, you are wasting your time here. Grow up.

 

[sedonaman]

What was I defending? And from what?

You mean to say you are not fighting for and defending the cause of Allah?

 

[brigantine]

I’m not sure she really has a clue what is going on in this thread. This may be because of age, education, language, or she just may be playing around. I always found debating muslims easier than other religions or protestants because they never have an answer only an attack.

You mean to say you are not fighting and defending the cause of Allah?

 

[sedonaman]

Which accusations?

What???!!! You said there were accusations against Mohammed, and now you are asking “what accusations”?

OK. To save you the trouble of looking them up, here they are:

Muhammad was a:

Narcissist
Pedophile
Mass Murderer
Terrorist
Misogynist [meaning he hated women]
Lecher
Cult Leader
Rapist
Torturer
Assassin
Looter

 

[sedonaman]

I’m not sure she really has a clue what is going on in this thread.

I kinda get the impression she is taking our posts in the wrong context.

 

[brigantine]

I kinda get the impression she is taking our posts in the wrong context.

Context? You mean interpretation?

 

[sedonaman]

Context? You mean interpretation?

I did have to use a word she is familiar with.

 

[sedonaman]

I always found debating muslims easier than other religions or protestants because they never have an answer only an attack.

I think a good deal has to do with their use of dualistic logic:

“All of Western logic is based upon the law of contradiction – if two things contradict, then at least one of them is false. But Islamic logic is dualistic; two things can contradict each other and both are true.” Warner, Bill; The Study of Political Islam