How do non catholics argue their denomination (or lack thereof) is the correct one?

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avhamm said:
So how exactly do non Catholic denominations of Christianity argue that their views are the correct one?
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Most don’t argue that their views are 100% correct. Only a few denominations will say “my way or the highway”. The only ones who come to mind are some Independent Fundamentals KJV only Baptist and Restorationist Churches such as the Church of Christ.

Pretty much every other Evangelical church teaches that there are basic beliefs that you must adhere to to be part of the body of Christ. While there is no formal list of things I’m aware of, it is a loose consensus of like belief about Christ, Faith, and the inerrancy of Scripture that we recognize in each others teaching that bind us together as the church (ecclesia or people of God). It is hard to describe but we seem to intuitively recognize (some would say because we are led by the Holy Spirit) authentic Christianity. That is why you will not find an American Evangelical church recognize the Mormons or Jehovah’s Witnessess as authentic Christian expressions.

We also recognize that we are falliable humans, and even though we seek to walk in the Spirit, we still have a carnal nature that influences our thoughts, desires, prejudices, experiences, and so forth. We believe that is true for us today, it was true for the apostolic fathers, for Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Calvin, Edwards, Billy Graham, John Piper and every other preacher or theologian in history.

Therefore, we understand that because we are humans, we will have diverse opinions on different matters. We humans love to have opinions are argue about them. So while we form opinions on things like predestination or prevenient grace or even the correct method and timing of baptism, we also hold that those things, while important, does not prevent someone from being in the church (the body of Christ) if they hold differing opinions. Christ redeems us because we trust in Him for our salvation, not because of what we believe about baptism or if we are reformed or wesleyan in our Theology. We believe that in the end we will find out who is right about what and that we will all probably be shown were we were wrong or presumptuous in our opinions.

That is why you will see Assembly of God and Southern Baptist worship together and work together to serve the community in the name of Christ. That is why you will see Presbyterians and Methodist and Baptist join together in Bible study (I have been part of a men’s study with that dynamic and it was awesome). That is why you will see a Non-Denominational church be supported by other denominations when teaching English as a Second Language.

That is also why we are suspicious of any “church” or “preacher” who claims to right about everything.
 
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lanman87 said:
That is why you will see Assembly of God and Southern Baptist worship together and work together to serve the community in the name of Christ. That is why you will see Presbyterians and Methodist and Baptist join together in Bible study (I have been part of a men’s study with that dynamic and it was awesome). That is why you will see a Non-Denominational church be supported by other denominations when teaching English as a Second Language.
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And you will see Catholics working with Evangelical Protestants in various outreaches, especially pro-life activism. Our local Pregnancy Life Care Center is managed by a Catholic woman (hired manager), but staffed by a mixture of Catholics and Protestants, mainly Evangelical Protestants. And when there are marches or rallies, the Catholics and Protestants (at least, the Evangelical Protestants) stand side-by-side.

Another example is our local Police Chaplain organization. This extremely worthy organization was started by a priest in the 1970s, but many Protestant pastors volunteered and were welcomed. That priest and his police chaplain organization have received hundreds of honors, including the highest honors that our city gives. Our old Evangelical Protestant pastor used to tell stories about his experiences (preserving anonomity, of course) in his sermons, and they were beautiful.

Also, you will see Protestants and Catholics, especially pastors and priests, who are good friends and meet regularly for fellowship and prayer. My old Evangelical pastor (the same one I described in the above paragraph) is best friends with a Catholic priest in our city–they got to know each other during the “I Found It!” campaign, organized by Campus Crusade for Christ back in the 1970s–and 3 of the local Catholic parishes joined in!!! It was amazing and a mighty witness to us Evangelical Protestants that Catholics were Christians, too! That’s when our Evangelical pastor and the priest met and started establishing their friendship.

Someday, we’ll all be back together again. I believe unity in the Christian churches is coming sooner rather than later. I hope I’m still alive to see it. Read Being the Body by Charles Colson (R.I.P.). Mr. Colson makes an impassioned case for unity of Christians.
 
I’m sure what you say is true in areas where there is a large Catholic and Non-Catholic population. The area I live in, with a population of around 30,000 only has one Catholic church, but we have 100’s of non-Catholic churches.

Of course that only begs the question of why we Non-Catholic/Evangelicals can be considered Spirit filled co-laborers in the cause of Christ and yet not be considered part of the church, the body of Christ?
 
lanman87 said:
Of course that only begs the question of why we Non-Catholic/Evangelicals can be considered Spirit filled co-laborers in the cause of Christ and yet not be considered part of the church, the body of Christ?
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Because you cannot make the Statement of Faith that all Catechumens make when they become members of the Catholic Church. You cannot profess belief in all that Catholics believe (e.g., the True Presence of Jesus Christ in the Blessed Sacrament, the saving nature of water baptism, the communion of saints, which means that they are aware of what is happening here on earth and constantly intercede for us, etc.). Or can you make that Statement of Faith? If you can, then why not become Catholic?

That’s really the crux of it for me and my husband. We both reached a point in our studies of Catholicism (much of which was done in the context of a Catholic apologetic class that we were taking that was taught by two college professors, man and wife, who had formerly been members of the church I grew up in, but over the years, became convinced of the truth of Catholicism) where we KNEW that the Catholic Church was the Church that Jesus Christ Himself established, and that if we said, “No,” we would be saying no to Jesus, denying Him, and thus jeopardizing our own eternal salvation.

We both had experiences that were so clearly from the Holy Spirit–nothing dramatic, no fire or smoke or celestial visions. What happened is that we separately both heard the Holy Spirit speak to our hearts and say, “This is the Truth. It all lines up with the Bible that you know so well, and the history that you have only recently learned about. What will you do with the Truth?”

I also want to add a few comments about the Bible and the Catholic Church. Throughout the first Masses that we attended, we recognized the Old Testament origins of much of the Mass, even though we really didn’t know what was going on. We saw that the entire Mass was Biblical–no conflict. We both know our Bibles well after many read-throughs and Evangelical Protestant Bible studies and Evangelical Protestant books by people like Billy Graham, Chuck Swindoll, etc.), and we recognized that what we were seeing was straight out of the BIble.
 
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3 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit. 1 Cor 12:13

It seems to me that if someone is baptized in the Spirit and the Spirit indwells them and seals them, then they are part of the Body of Christ. It is God who marks who is part of the Body by the actions of His Spirit. No man, or group of men, decides who is and is not part of the Body. All we can do is recognize the Spirits work and affirm who the Spirit is working in and through.

If the Catholic church wants to deny that Non-Catholics are indwelled by the Spirit and the Spirit isn’t working through them then that is fine and would be a better argument to make. But to recognize that the Spirit is indwelling and working through non-Catholic Christians and then say they aren’t part of the Body of Christ goes against the teachings of Scripture.
 
They do not argue their religion is correct one. They just protest against Catholic Church that it is not. They are protesters. They are protesting Jesus Christ’s Church that He started.
 
c4csp said:
They do not argue their religion is correct one. They just protest against Catholic Church that it is not. They are protesters. They are protesting Jesus Christ’s Church that He started.
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You words here this evening cause me to think. I think I read your post a half dozen times and I have to claim that I do not agree with your assessment at all. At least, it has not been my experience. We have been watching protesters on the news every night and I do not see any resemblance or feel any kinship even if you call me a protestor. I was not raised in an environment that would identify in any way with being a protestor of the Catholic Church. As to being called a protestor of the Church Jesus started, I have no identification. Actually, my Church has always strove to resemble what the New Testament reveals the early Church was like. Very interesting experience to be told I am something I do not identify with at all.
 
Wannano said:
You words here this evening cause me to think. I think I read your post a half dozen times and I have to claim that I do not agree with your assessment at all. At least, it has not been my experience. We have been watching protesters on the news every night and I do not see any resemblance or feel any kinship even if you call me a protestor. I was not raised in an environment that would identify in any way with being a protestor of the Catholic Church. As to being called a protestor of the Church Jesus started, I have no identification. Actually, my Church has always strove to resemble what the New Testament reveals the early Church was like. Very interesting experience to be told I am something I do not identify with at all.
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PROTESTants were named so because they protested the Catholic Church, Jesus’ Church. If one is not protesting anymore, then it would be wise for them to return to the fold.
 
No, that is not the original derivation of the term. There is a a poster here who corrects that sort of thing, regularly. He may do so again, perhaps.
 
lanman87 said:
Pretty much every other Evangelical church teaches that there are basic beliefs that you must adhere to to be part of the body of Christ. While there is no formal list of things I’m aware of, it is a loose consensus of like belief about Christ, Faith, and the inerrancy of Scripture that we recognize in each others teaching that bind us together as the church (ecclesia or people of God). It is hard to describe but we seem to intuitively recognize (some would say because we are led by the Holy Spirit) authentic Christianity. That is why you will not find an American Evangelical church recognize the Mormons or Jehovah’s Witnessess as authentic Christian expressions.
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If I may add my European view; a lot of the churches in this corner of the world enter into formalized relationships - my church is part of the Community of Protestant Churches in Europe, and so it is in official full communion with 93 other churches, or around 50 million believers.

I guess American Evangelicalism inherited a kind of “independentism” that is so much ingrained in the American mindset. There’s also this widespread opposition in anything institutional and rigidly defined - which can be evidenced by the recent expansion of non-denom churches, that remains mostly a phenomenon spread by Americans. This is maybe the reason why American Protestantism may seem so terribly fragmented when looked at through the lens of Catholicism, which was always big on regularity and institutionalism.
 
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c4csp said:
They do not argue their religion is correct one. They just protest against Catholic Church that it is not. They are protesters. They are protesting Jesus Christ’s Church that He started.
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c4csp said:
PROTESTants were named so because they protested the Catholic Church, Jesus’ Church. If one is not protesting anymore, then it would be wise for them to return to the fold.
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I would surmise that the average western non-Catholic Christian in the pew doesn’t care one iota about “protesting” the Catholic Church. To them, the Catholic parish down the street is where a friend or colleague or classmate goes to church.
They are not “protesting” because the original protest doesn’t apply to them. The original protest that brought us the name “Protestant” was a protest against civil authorities, not the Catholic Church, at the Second Diet of Speyer in 1529.
 
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Wannano said:
We have been watching protesters on the news every night and I do not see any resemblance or feel any kinship even if you call me a protestor.
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Me neither.

I suspect that the protest at the Second Diet of Speyer looked more like the protest that Lutheran and Catholic clergy, among others, joined together to hold in front of Congress.

In 1529, the protest was against government limited religious liberty.
President Harrison and Bishop Lori protested the HHS Mandate together in 2012.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
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How do the Orthodox argue that the Orthodox Church is the true Church?
I am not sure, but I did read that their belief is that the Roman Church broke away from the Catholic Church, i.e., broke from the Orthodox Catholic Church, in 1054 for reasons which do not hold up. For example, the omission of the filioque from the creed and a married clergy. Further, at that time there were five Patriachates: these five were Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem, but it was only Rome that broke off from the others. The other four did not join with Rome. So according to this timeline, the Orthodox Church traces its origin back to the time of the Apostles, but the Roman Church split off and decided to go on its own in 1054, a thousand years later. Further, there is a claim that Rome introduced certain novelties which were never part of the original teachings such as for example, clown Masses, puppet Masses, papal infallibility, allowing marriage annulments for reasons which were not acceptable until recently, i.e., after Vatican II. i have also heard Orthodox say that their use of icons is correct because of the biblical prohibition against “graven” images. Graven or 3D images is taken by some to mean statues, which are 3D, in contrast to icons, which are not graven because they are two dimensional.
 
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avhamm said:
Prior to the Reformation there was only Catholicism, Orthodoxy and Coptic with all of them having overlaps many of which contradict the bible.
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I’m betting this isn’t as true as we want to believe. I mean there were Gnostics & Arians in the Church teaching Gnosticism & Arianism from the altar from the very beginning.

Their were probably millions of people who didn’t accept Catholic teaching & were all to eager to jump onto another tradition. One closer to what they could believe, what they could accept.

In other words, the divisions were most likely there, they just had nowhere to go.
 
Peeps said:
“I Found It!” campaign, organized by Campus Crusade for Christ back in the 1970s
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Somebody here remebers the " I found it" campaign…wow…I took part in that thru our church as a young Christian
 
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c4csp said:
They do not argue their religion is correct one. They just protest against Catholic Church that it is not. They are protesters. They are protesting Jesus Christ’s Church that He started.
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Is this garnered from the Catholic coining of “protestant” ?

What we did protest to deserve the term was the recently aquired liberty to worship per conviction and conscience being then taken away again.

So we did not protest the CC as much as the authorities (civil/church union) giving then taking away religious freedom in the 16th century “Germany”.

True story.

Ps…i see after back reading posts this has been very well adressed .

Birds of a feather flocking together.
 
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