How do Non-Catholics stay in a "state of a grace"

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First of all let me say that I’m Catholic and I don’t where Non-Catholics go when they die. For all people who say they go to Heaven. How do they stay in a state of a grace, if they don’t confess their sins or repent?
 
followingtheway said:
First of all let me say that I’m Catholic and I don’t where Non-Catholics go when they die. For all people who say they go to Heaven. How do they stay in a state of a grace, if they don’t confess their sins or repent?
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Why do you think we don’t confess our sins or repent?

At the beginning of every divine service, Lutherans confess theirs sins,

**C **Most merciful God, we confess that we are by nature sinful and unclean. We have sinned against you in thought, word, and deed, by what we have done, and by what we have left undone. We have not loved you with our whole heart; we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. We justly deserve your present and eternal punishment. For the sake of Your Son, Jesus Christ, have mercy on us. Forgive us, renew us, and lead us, so that we may delight in Your will and walk in Your ways to the glory of Your holy name. Amen.

At which time the pastor announces absolution.

Further, private confession is available to all Lutherans:

bookofconcord.org/smallcatechism.php#confession

Jon
 
Yeah, that anemic communal confession was one of the first things that started bothering me about modern Lutheranism, even fundamentalist branches. Not very convicting, giving no assurance of absolution, and not very effective in helping people growing in holiness.

In reply to the OP, they have no assurance of being in a state of grace. Charity requires that we act as if most are not. For that matter, many (most?) Catholics have no reason to be confident they are in God’s friendship.
 
followingtheway said:
First of all let me say that I’m Catholic and I don’t where Non-Catholics go when they die. For all people who say they go to Heaven. How do they stay in a state of a grace, if they don’t confess their sins or repent?
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My understanding: Protestants who do their best to follow Jesus and learn the Truth can stay in a state of grace by doing that. When they make a sin, they have to make a perfect contrition to retain that state of grace. It would be a perfect contrition because they don’t know that they have to see a priest and confess; they would if they knew, therefore it is a perfect contrition.

that’s my understanding. God gives more grace to Protestant communities than many Catholics (and Orthodox) may realize. 👍
 
For me, what happens when I commit a bad act is that I picture Aristotle, the Ancient Greek philosopher. When I commit a bad act, I often feel like I’ve let him down. Aristotle was a Greek philosopher and was the forefather of “Virtue Ethics”, which has influenced virtually all of Western ethics (including the Church): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_ethics

My own personal opinion is that part of being “human” is to not act on impulses. We are better than that.
 
From an evangelical point of view, we don’t believe we have to go through a priest to be forgiven. We can boldly approach the throne of grace and can ask for forgiveness for our sins. If one truly seeks forgiveness and repents and turns away from sin they can have faith that the blood of Christ will wash them clean.
 
=JerryS;8348502]Yeah, that anemic communal confession was one of the first things that started bothering me about modern Lutheranism, even fundamentalist branches. Not very convicting, giving no assurance of absolution, and not very effective in helping people growing in holiness.
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If you felt that way, why did you not avail yourself to private confession?
That said, the assurance of forgiveness via the power of the keys is quite there, when the pastor says,
"As a called and ordained servant of Christ, and by His authority, I therefore forgive you all of your sins, in the Name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. "

Of course, if you felt that way, then you did yourself well by converting to the Catholic Church, and I pray God’s blessing for you in word and sacrament there.
In reply to the OP, they have no assurance of being in a state of grace. Charity requires that we act as if most are not. For that matter, many (most?) Catholics have no reason to be confident they are in God’s friendship.
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Were a non-Catholic to make a statement such as the bolded regarding Catholics, he might be accused of being anti-Catholic. However, the I think I can agree with the general thrust of your statement, and the implication that we must avail ourselves of the means of grace, and strive in our sanctification to grow in His grace.

Jon
 
If you’re “once saved, always saved” it doesn’t really matter, does it?
 
followingtheway said:
First of all let me say that I’m Catholic and I don’t where Non-Catholics go when they die. For all people who say they go to Heaven. How do they stay in a state of a grace, if they don’t confess their sins or repent?
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An Indian in the Amazon basin who never contacted civilization and never heard of Jesus Christ is judged by God by the way he followed his conscience. And this conscience is led by God, for God exists also in the Amazon basin. Simply, he is saved by Christ, though he does not know Christ (possibly my portrait of Christ is not better than his, for it is not for being a Christian that I am a better “Christian” than him).

Still, Jesus said to us that we should bring His message to the end of the World. That is His command and we should do that because He ordered us to do. So God, though He is in the Amazon basin, will not reveal Himself to the Indians unless we go there. These were His orders and we should do our best to follow.

Meanwhile, he is judge by the conscience of good and evil that he has.
 
“Those whom God has accepted in Christ, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never fall away from the state of grace, but shall persevere to the end.” The Baptist Faith and Message, Part V (SBC).
 
Ron_in_minden said:
If you’re “once saved, always saved” it doesn’t really matter, does it?
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It only “doesn’t really matter” if you actually believe in once saved, always saved. There are lots of Protestants, more than believe in OSAS who do believe in the reality that God’s grace can be rejected, even if it was formerly embraced.
 
As a Methodist I confess them to God each day. Funny though even before I even thought of starting RCIA I always felt like I needed penance and often also confessed my sins to my associate pastor over coffee-LOL! I am a little scared but also looking forward to my first confession- have already thought of the themes as I have 53 years to talk about-LOL! I don’t know, I just trust Jesus that He hears me and forgives and that He has me covered until I am “official” in the Church and can take advantage fully of the Sacraments where He will still also forgive me. I do like the accountability- I try to do a nightly examination of conscience now with an Act of Contrition.

Blessings,

Val
 
THis is a bit of a bizarre question? Why would you think non-Catholics don’t confess sins?

As for how we are assured that we are forgiven:

*If any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and he is the propitiation for our sins. *

This is a true saying, and worthy of all men to be received, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. *
*
God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son, to the end that all that believe in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us: but if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
*
Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: let the wicked forsake his way and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.*

I’m also not sure that the only choices are “being in a state of Grace” or “not being in a state of Grace”. I suspect that most of us are somewhere in between.
 
My thinking would confirm yours. In fact I’m positive it is what correctly pushs us upward.
 
JonNC said:
Why do you think we don’t confess our sins or repent?

At the beginning of every divine service, Lutherans confess theirs sins,

**C **Most merciful God, we confess that we are by nature sinful and unclean. We have sinned against you in thought, word, and deed, by what we have done, and by what we have left undone. We have not loved you with our whole heart; we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. We justly deserve your present and eternal punishment. For the sake of Your Son, Jesus Christ, have mercy on us. Forgive us, renew us, and lead us, so that we may delight in Your will and walk in Your ways to the glory of Your holy name. Amen.

At which time the pastor announces absolution.

Further, private confession is available to all Lutherans:

bookofconcord.org/smallcatechism.php#confession

Jon
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I’ve never seen this before, Jon, and thank you for posting it. I found this line interesting: “we confess that we are by nature sinful and unclean.” If our nature was given us by God, how can this be? Isn’t our nature to seek and to be one with God? We are by our own chosen acts sinful and unclean but to say we are that way, not because of our choice but because of the nature God gave us, seems a whole lot pre-destinational and Calvanist rather than Luteran.
 
ltwin said:
It only “doesn’t really matter” if you actually believe in once saved, always saved. There are lots of Protestants, more than believe in OSAS who do believe in the reality that God’s grace can be rejected, even if it was formerly embraced.
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You’ve hit the issue. The vast majority of American Protestants are now Evangelicals and one of the hallmarks of their belief system is “The Eternal Security of the Believer” I have been to hundreds of Evangelical services and there is no version of a “Penitential” rite or confessional rite with the exception that when they have the “Lord’s Supper” ceremony the presider will often say something confessional.

In fact if one believes in eternal security, confession subsequent to the moment of salvation, is absolutely superfluous. The theory is that one is forgiven (at the moment one is saved) from past, present and future sins.

This is one of the ways around Jesus’ proscription of divorce and remarriage: “It may be a sin, but I’m saved so it really doesn’t matter.” There is very little evaluation of the logical flaws in very incongruous thought process.
 
JRRTFAN said:
You’ve hit the issue. The vast majority of American Protestants are now Evangelicals and one of the hallmarks of their belief system is “The Eternal Security of the Believer” I have been to hundreds of Evangelical services and there is no version of a “Penitential” rite or confessional rite with the exception that when they have the “Lord’s Supper” ceremony the presider will often say something confessional.

In fact if one believes in eternal security, confession subsequent to the moment of salvation, is absolutely superfluous. The theory is that one is forgiven (at the moment one is saved) from past, present and future sins.

This is one of the ways around Jesus’ proscription of divorce and remarriage: “It may be a sin, but I’m saved so it really doesn’t matter.” There is very little evaluation of the logical flaws in very incongruous thought process.
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Hmm, I’d have to take issue with your characterization. I have no doubts that there are people who believe in OSAS, and I’m not making excuses for them. But all evangelicals are not OSAS. They may believe in the Security of the Believer, but the important thing to find out is if they believe in the “Conditional Security of the Believer,” which is an important distinction. Lots of evangelicals are Pentecostals now, and I know for a fact that we do not believe in once saved always saved. However, I realize that some Baptists and others do.

Another thing I think is a misunderstanding is the lack of penitential or confessional rite. You are correct, there is none in an evangelical church. But that does not mean we don’t believe in confession of sin. It is just personalized as opposed to institutionalized. We confess our sins and pray to God the Father in the name of his son Jesus in the power of the Holy Spirit for forgiveness. And if we have something against a person we are taught to go to that person and makes things right.

Another thing, in a lot of churches there use to be a practice (not so common anymore) of public testimony and confession. Testimony was telling something good that God had done in your life or a struggle you were going through but have felt God’s presence strengthening you through it. Confession was obviously publicly confessing sin in your life. So confession in church is not entirely foreign to evangelical churches, but if it happens it is a lot more spontaneous and ad hoc than in the Catholic Church.

And for the record, I was never taught that I was forgiven of future sins at salvation. I was taught that I have to live a life of repentance and reliance on God’s grace everyday. I was taught that nothing can separate me from the love of God, but that is not the same as saying that if I refuse to live a life of consecration to God and his purposes that I will still be saved.
 
Hey Itwin, I was thinking about what Blue said further. I believe first we must all be some-what on the same page here. Tragically the only way I see to do that is through this link.

search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7iJZkmxOHWwAMhVXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1cDJqb2prBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA01TWTAwOV8xNjM-/SIG=122eo6d1p/EXP=1315767001/**http%3a//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctifying_grace

Then of course the understanding that the CC teaching is De-Fide. BTW the CC does not believe man is born into Sanctifying Grace, we are born in Original Sin, Sanctifying Grace is through Baptism and the Sacrements of the Church.

“I was taught that nothing can separate me from the love of God, but that is not the same as saying that if I refuse to live a life of consecration to God and his purposes that I will still be saved. I was never taught that I was forgiven of future sins at salvation. I was taught that I have to live a life of repentance and reliance on God’s grace everyday”

Sounds very Catholic to me.

Peace
 
The short answer to the question: How do non-Catholics stay in a state of grace?

With Great Difficulty.

Most are deprieved of the grace of the sacraments (excepting those with valid sacraments such as the Orthodox).

Anyone’s sins may be forgiven by making a perfect act of contrition, but there are many reasons why one should go to the Sacrament of Penance.

The Eucharist is at the heart of the spiritual life.

Many people, Catholic and non-Catholic, make a very grave error in thinking that because there is a POSSIBILITY of non-Catholics finding salvation, that it is somehow a likeliehood. Rather, being seperated from the Church presents very serious obstacles to salvation. We should never become lax regarding the need for evangelization and conversion.

Pax and God Bless.
 
JRRTFAN said:
I’ve never seen this before, Jon, and thank you for posting it. I found this line interesting: “we confess that we are by nature sinful and unclean.” If our nature was given us by God, how can this be? Isn’t our nature to seek and to be one with God? We are by our own chosen acts sinful and unclean but to say we are that way, not because of our choice but because of the nature God gave us, seems a whole lot pre-destinational and Calvanist rather than Luteran.
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You know, I’ve heard this criticism before, from Lutherans as well. There are other statements of confession in other Lutheran settings of our “mass” that do ring far more Lutheran. I would say, in its defense, that I think it is the intention to testify to the fallen state of humankind, rather than make a statement about our pre-fall nature.

Jon
 
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