How do non-denominational Christians pick a church?

[jmcrae]

ok. Then what exactly is meant in John 6:28-29?
28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

“Believing” involves a great deal more than just mental assent, though. It involves living our lives as if it were true.

Again, don’t get me wrong. Faith without works is dead. I am saying it isn’t necessary, though.

And we will be judged on our works, but I could squeak in without doing one single thing, while you toiled away. We would both be there, Praising God for his amazing mercy.

If we are going to be judged on our works, then not doing any works (assuming you are capable of doing them) will surely land you in Hell. See Matthew 25:31-46.

The only way you would get to Heaven without doing any good thing on the earth would be if you were not physically capable of doing them (ie: an infant who dies shortly after being baptized, or someone who converts on his death bed).

 

[Xavierlives]

No. He is asking, are the attributes of the Jesus you believe in, the same attributes as the real Jesus who lives in Heaven has? (ie: do you believe in the real Jesus, or a fictional version of Him; aka a false god?)

If you name your rottweiler Jesus and you rely on your rottweiler for protection, you can say “I rely on Jesus for protection” but you would not mean by that statement what the Church means by that statement - and the “Jesus” that you rely on is not capable of getting you into Heaven.

In the same way, if you believe things about Jesus that are not true (or if you fail to believe things that are true), then you have created a false “Jesus” - a god who does not actually exist. Simply saying the name “Jesus” without knowing the Person to whom it refers is not enough. It is important to know and believe what is true about Jesus, as far as is humanly possible. We are not free to make stuff up about Him.

Well that is a cute story, but alas, I have not made anything up about Jesus. There is no need to. Everything we all need to know is right there in the Bible.

 

[Xavierlives]

“Believing” involves a great deal more than just mental assent, though. It involves living our lives as if it were true.

If we are going to be judged on our works, then not doing any works (assuming you are capable of doing them) will surely land you in Hell. See Matthew 25:31-46.

The only way you would get to Heaven without doing any good thing on the earth would be if you were not physically capable of doing them (ie: an infant who dies shortly after being baptized, or someone who converts on his death bed).

And, well since you just hopped into the conversation, that is what we we discussing.

 

[PRmerger]

ok. Then what exactly is meant in John 6:28-29?
28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

I believe that we know we are SAVED through ALL the verses in Scripture. Thus, belief is necessary, but not the ONLY thing required, like you state.

In fact, I find it peculiar that you claim that’s the only thing required, for the Scriptures say exactly the opposite.

You believe that there is one God. Good! [SIGN1]Even the demons believe [/SIGN1]that–and shudder.

Again, don’t get me wrong. **Faith without works is dead. I am saying it isn’t necessary, **though. And we will be judged on our works, but I could squeak in without doing one single thing, while you toiled away. We would both be there, Praising God for his amazing mercy.

So would you go to a church that taught that works* is *necessary, as long as they teach that they’re “for” Jesus? The reason I ask goes back to my initial questioning of your position that it doesn’t really matter what the doctrines are in a church, as long as they are “for” Jesus (and, I suppose, don’t teach polytheism).

(Let me be clear, the CC does not teach a works-based salvation. My question is to a hypothetical church that teaches a works-based salvation but also teaches that Jesus is Lord.)

 

[jmcrae]

Well that is a cute story, but alas, I have not made anything up about Jesus. There is no need to. Everything we all need to know is right there in the Bible.

Actually, the Bible itself tells us that this is not so. (John 21:25) There are many things that were never written down, which are necessary for us to understand. These things come to us through the oral tradition of the Catholic Church.

 

[Xavierlives]

I believe that we know we are SAVED through ALL the verses in Scripture. Thus, belief is necessary, but not the ONLY thing required, like you state.

In fact, I find it peculiar that you claim that’s the only thing required, for the Scriptures say exactly the opposite.

You believe that there is one God. Good! [SIGN1]Even the demons believe [/SIGN1]that–and shudder.

So would you go to a church that taught that works* is *necessary, as long as they teach that they’re “for” Jesus? The reason I ask goes back to my initial questioning of your position that it doesn’t really matter what the doctrines are in a church, as long as they are “for” Jesus (and, I suppose, don’t teach polytheism).

(Let me be clear, the CC does not teach a works-based salvation. My question is to a hypothetical church that teaches a works-based salvation but also teaches that Jesus is Lord.)

Oooo… Where did I say that?

To be quite honest, I don’t know what you are confused about. I’m trying to be as clear as possible. I am not denying faith. I am saying, Christ says our only work is belief.

I do not go to a church which teaches works. I’m not sure where you are getting that. If this is all about being a Christian, then maybe you could clarify what exactly you would like to talk about.

 

[Xavierlives]

Actually, the Bible itself tells us that this is not so. (John 21:25) There are many things that were never written down, which are necessary for us to understand. These things come to us through the oral tradition of the Catholic Church.

I don’t find rottweilers mentioned anywhere.

 

[1beleevr]

Of course it matters. If we are bowing down to mere bread, we are committing idolatry.

If you are stuffing your Christmas turkey with the leftovers of the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ (or throwing them out, or feeding them to the dog), you are committing sacrilege.

It sure looks like mere bread I guess when it comes to communion, it is what is in the mind and heart of the individual worshipper, and his/her personal relationship with Christ. You see, the wonderful thing about Christ is, you can meet Him ANYWHERE, not just in church, or in the eucharist! You can meet Him on a mountaintop, or a lake, or a crowded mall! And that is so amazing to know that He can’t be bottled or boxed up:thumbsup:

 

[1beleevr]

Can I hold off on #3

]

Actually nondenominational churches have some of the best, moving, soul-soothing, house-rocking Christian music I have heard!

 

[1beleevr]

Yet we learn from Acts and James, that works ARE, indeed, required.

You see that a man is [SIGN]justified by works[/SIGN] and not by faith alone.

Who will render to every man [SIGN]according to his deeds[/SIGN]

]

The issue of “works,” is one which invokes some good lively, and sometimes controversial discussions!I think one thing is trying to figure out what works man expects and what works God expects While we don’t NEED works to be saved, God did save us to do the good works that He has set aside for us! But, trying to hold over someone’s head that they must perform certain works, to be admitted to the Kingdom is just wrong! This is between God and the individual! And speaking of works, these are probably what are going to be judged by fire(1Corinthians 3:13-15) And while Paul and James served the same Master, they differed, or maybe they didn’t, on works+faith, or works as a result of faith! Paul seems to be of the opinion, that one is not saved by his/her works, but does good works as a result of being saved by grace through faith!

 

[PRmerger]

[It sure looks like mere bread

That, it doesn’t. You eat bread that looks like that?

I heard a wag once say, “It takes more faith to believe that this wafer is actually *bread *than it does to believe it’s the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord!”
[/quote]

 

[tweetymom]

]

Actually nondenominational churches have some of the best, moving, soul-soothing, house-rocking Christian music I have heard!

Been there and it is a fact. Love good worship music it is great.

 

[PRmerger]

But, trying to hold over someone’s head that they must perform certain works, to be admitted to the Kingdom is just wrong!!

Amen!

(Just so you know, the CC does not teach a works-based salvation.)

1beleevr: May you and your family have a Blessed and Joyful Christmas, dear friend and Brother in Christ!

 

[Xavierlives]

Of course it matters. If we are bowing down to mere bread, we are committing idolatry.

If you are stuffing your Christmas turkey with the leftovers of the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ (or throwing them out, or feeding them to the dog), you are committing sacrilege.

And the fact that either of those is a concern to you might be a closer representation of the problem than anything.

 

[Xavierlives]

]

The issue of “works,” is one which invokes some good lively, and sometimes controversial discussions!I think one thing is trying to figure out what works man expects and what works God expects While we don’t NEED works to be saved, God did save us to do the good works that He has set aside for us! But, trying to hold over someone’s head that they must perform certain works, to be admitted to the Kingdom is just wrong! This is between God and the individual! And speaking of works, these are probably what are going to be judged by fire(1Corinthians 3:13-15) And while Paul and James served the same Master, they differed, or maybe they didn’t, on works+faith, or works as a result of faith! Paul seems to be of the opinion, that one is not saved by his/her works, but does good works as a result of being saved by grace through faith!

And this is the circular debate we have been having (I think).

 

[1beleevr]

That, it doesn’t. You eat bread that looks like that?

I heard a wag once say, “It takes more faith to believe that this wafer is actually *bread *than it does to believe it’s the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord!”

]

No disrespect intended, because I know what the wafer, or host as you call it, means to you! But outwardly to the human eye, it looks like a wafer! And I am glad to hear that you don’t teach a works-based salvation; this would be very burdensome for some! May the Lord of all Creation richly bless you and your family this CHRISTmas season! Let’s keep Christ IN Christmas!

 

[Bill_Pick]

Xavierlives:
Ask youself: Does it change God’s Message?

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans the Eucharist is the true presence of Christ, and then tell the Baptists it is only a symbol?

No.

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Methodists it is alright to have female ministers, and then tell the Baptists it is unbiblical?

Yes. Ruh-roh. We might have a problem.

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Seventh Day Adventists that Saturday is the day of worship, and then tell the Presbyterians the day of worship is Sunday and not Saturday?

No.

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans that the Blessed Virgin Mary was and remains always virgin, and then tell the Baptists she had other children?

No.

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Baptists, ‘once saved always saved’, and then tell the Church of Christ that Sola Fides is unscriptural?

No.

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell Episcopalians to baptize infants and then tell Pentecostals infant baptism is invalid?

No.

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell Mormons that the Holy Trinity is three separate persons, and then tell Methodists the Trinity is three persons in one GOD

Yes. Ruh-roh. We might have a problem.

This is a very good post.

 

[1beleevr]

This is a very good post.

]

Depends on what perspective you read it from! It is well put together though!

 

[AmericanJosiah]

.

LONG ago, there was one congregation in the village or area. So Christians went there. In many cases, all the congregations were associated with one denomination because “the religion of the prince is the religion of the subjects.”

Later, people had strong denominational loyalties and would generally register at the congregation of that denomination closest to them - the “parish” system was largely followed - formally or informally.

Today, denominational loyalties are weak and there is little to no concern or interest for what congregation is closest to home. The “community church” is gone - except in very small or isolated towns, gone for most Americans certainly, 80% of which live in metro areas where there are MANY churches within reach of their car on a Sunday morning.

I know of no Catholics who simply registered at the parish closest to them. They all shopped around. My brother-in-law and my sister worship at a Catholic parish about a 30 minutes drive from their home - passing right by a number of Catholic churches in the process. They like the pastor there, the church seemed friendlier than the others they visited, and it was regarded as the only one around that is kid-friendly (they have a baby) and where there are a number of younger families. They also liked the family oriented activities.

Protestants often “church shop” too. What they are looking for varies considerably. Studies show that very high on the list is where they feel embraced, welcomed and “at home.” They may have a list of things important to them. I WISH that theology mattered more to Christians, but the level of ignorance is astounding and the level of commitment to such very weak. This is largely true for Catholics, too - from my experience. Even where denominational loyalty exists - it’s often more for cultural and tradition reasons, not because of a firm understanding and passionate embrace of all that denomination’s dogmas.

.

 

[jmcrae]

It sure looks like mere bread I guess when it comes to communion, it is what is in the mind and heart of the individual worshipper, and his/her personal relationship with Christ. You see, the wonderful thing about Christ is, you can meet Him ANYWHERE, not just in church, or in the eucharist! You can meet Him on a mountaintop, or a lake, or a crowded mall! And that is so amazing to know that He can’t be bottled or boxed up:thumbsup:

And spiritually, He is in my heart, just as, spiritually, my husband is on my ring-finger - but it is even better to meet Him in person in the Eucharist at Mass, just as it is better to see my husband in person after work every day.