How do non-denominational Christians pick a church?

[Xavierlives]

Did God also plan for Judas to kill himself ??
Is it your belief that suicide is not a sin?
Is dieing a death by your own hand because you can’t be forgiven God’s plan?

Knowing he would and “planning” are two different things. God is not limited by space and time. He knew Judas would commit suicide before Judas was born. Does that mean he planned it? No!

As for suicide discussion, I think I’d rather save that for another thread (at a later time). I have too many spinning plates in my circus act right now, I’d rather not add another.

 

[Xavierlives]

Right. But when it comes to yourself, you can know whether you are doing these things, or not. We are not called to pass judgement on other people’s salvation, nor comment on whether or not someone “appears” to be “saved” or not. That’s not our business, as you so eloquently point out - it’s God who holds the gavel.

But when it comes to evaluating our own journey, we need to know what constitutes an “essential” - something you know nothing at all about is obviously not going to figure in to your thinking - but stuff that you know about certainly should.

The “exceptions to the rules” are for other people - not for ourselves. You can say, “My grandmother had the best of intentions, so “the rules” were waived in her case.” But you can’t say, “Therefore, the rules also don’t apply to me - I can sit here in my easy chair and assume I am “saved” without worrying about all that stuff.” No. We must hold ourselves to the highest possible standards, while being generous to others, and giving them the benefit of the doubt.

No one is saying the rules don’t apply. Or they aren’t saying the rules don’t apply to grandma or that they don’t apply to me. We will all be judged according to the laws when we step to the bar. Some people will be appearing pro se, while others will have Christ as their public defender. Do I need to be a lawyer to understand Jesus is my personal representative? Not at all but if I know the law, I am better suited. If I know the law, I can share my knowledge with others. I can say, “Hey, there is a guy who has given up everything to set you free.”

<I am thinking all things lawyer right now, sorry. It must be time for bed. >

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

Really? So when his disciples left Jesus because he told them to eat his flesh why didn’t Jesus call them back and say, “Um…guys? This is all represantational! Come on back!”

In fact (I may be wrong on this one) didn’t Judas start hating Jesus in his heart at this point–because he simply couldn’t accept this requirement for salvation?

when I read these scriptures I get the impression that He only wanted the smallest group to know what was going to happen with His death and resurrection and even they didnt really understand until it actually happened.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

]

Christ’s church, of course meaning all those who are in Him, and follow Him!

Of course is there another?

 

[PRmerger]

when I read these scriptures I get the impression that He only wanted the smallest group to know what was going to happen with His death and resurrection and even they didnt really understand until it actually happened.

We are not talking about Jesus’ teaching his disciples about the Paschal Mystery.

We are talking about the Bread of Life discourse in John 6. Of course he wanted his disciples to understand this! Yet, when his disciples, scandalized and despising of this teaching, left him he did not call them back to correct them–he let them leave.

If he meant it to be symbolic, and they believed it to be literal, he did not call them back to correct them.

 

[PRmerger]

Of course is there another?

I find it unfathomable that “Christ’s church” would have 40,000 different understandings of God’s Word.

Very clearly this paradigm of people starting their own church because their interpretation of Scripture differs from their pastor is just what the devil ordered. :sad_yes:

 

[SonofMonica]

Christ only has one body, and it is mystically, corporeally and really united to him and, as a result, it has only one faith, once revealed to the saints for all time. See Jude. There is absolutely no room for biblical interpretation apart from the Church and the Church is One. See Peter. Not everyone who likes you or believes in your family is a member of your family. So it is with God’s family, the Church. You are either in or out. See Jesus. The good news is that the Church welcomes you in. You do not have to remain separated. If you believe in the Church, come be a true part of it.

 

[fbl9]

Knowing he would and “planning” are two different things. God is not limited by space and time. He knew Judas would commit suicide before Judas was born. Does that mean he planned it? No!

As for suicide discussion, I think I’d rather save that for another thread (at a later time). I have too many spinning plates in my circus act right now, I’d rather not add another.

Thus God did “use” Judas as a means rather determined Judas would do as he (Judas) did? By knowing Judas would He placed Judas among the apostle’s.
to use a person means: getting what you want from that person?

some other time then would suits me fine on the suicide thing.

 

[Xavierlives]

I find it unfathomable that “Christ’s church” would have 40,000 different understandings of God’s Word.

Very clearly this paradigm of people starting their own church because their interpretation of Scripture differs from their pastor is just what the devil ordered. :sad_yes:

I’d really like to know where this 40,000 denominations thing started.

 

[Xavierlives]

Thus God did “use” Judas as a means rather determined Judas would do as he (Judas) did? By knowing Judas would He placed Judas among the apostle’s.
to use a person means: getting what you want from that person?

some other time then would suits me fine on the suicide thing.

Have you seen Groundhog Day? This is the best example I have for how God knows and interacts with us. It is really based on quantum time concepts. Yes God interacts with us and we interact with him, and he knows the outcome of every possible choice (including the one we make). So while I could choose to put on a blue shirt or a brown shirt, he could give me guidance that a brown shirt is needed, I could ignore that guidance through rebellion. If that brown shirt is required for his plan then that brown shirt will be provided through another means because I rebelled. Of course he knew I would rebel and has already provided. We choose to obey or rebel and he can use my rebellion or my obedience to forward his plan. We can never thwart his plan because he is in control over the timeline.

Another way I think about it is more of goal oriented.

I can think of about 3 general ways to get to work. One is fast, one is fair, and one is slow. If something blocks my way to number one, I have another way, it isn’t my first option, but it gets me there. If something is wrong with number two, I can move on to the slow choice. I’ll need to call work for this one, but eventually I will get there. My plan to work was not twarted, only delayed.

 

[1beleevr]

Thus God did “use” Judas as a means rather determined Judas would do as he (Judas) did? By knowing Judas would He placed Judas among the apostle’s.
to use a person means: getting what you want from that person?

some other time then would suits me fine on the suicide thing.

]

Two quick questions: Can you think of any other people that God has used throughout history to accomplish His will, and, If not Judas, who? Jesus had to be betrayed; it was prophesied! In order to betray, Christ, Judas, or whoever else it may have been(we know of course it was Judas), had to be allowed to get close! Did Judas know that what he was planning was a sin? Did he know early on that he would betray Jesus? Or did it come to him after the Devil entered him? God’s plan worked to perfection, and we are the benefactors:thumbsup:I cannot say with any certainty that God planned for Judas to commit suicide, but I do believe that He chose him for betrayal! In a weird kind of way, it’s like Mary; she had no clue, but God did

 

[SonofMonica]

]

Two quick questions: Can you think of any other people that God has used throughout history to accomplish His will, and, If not Judas, who? Jesus had to be betrayed; it was prophesied! In order to betray, Christ, Judas, or whoever else it may have been(we know of course it was Judas), had to be allowed to get close! Did Judas know that what he was planning was a sin? Did he know early on that he would betray Jesus? Or did it come to him after the Devil entered him? God’s plan worked to perfection, and we are the benefactors:thumbsup:I cannot say with any certainty that God planned for Judas to commit suicide, but I do believe that He chose him for betrayal! In a weird kind of way, it’s like Mary; she had no clue, but God did

I think the more interesting question is, did God know that Judas was going to betray Christ, and did God desire that Judas betray Christ? Did Judas sin by betraying Christ? If so, did God desire that Judas sin?

 

[Xavierlives]

]

Two quick questions: Can you think of any other people that God has used throughout history to accomplish His will, and, If not Judas, who? Jesus had to be betrayed; it was prophesied! In order to betray, Christ, Judas, or whoever else it may have been(we know of course it was Judas), had to be allowed to get close! Did Judas know that what he was planning was a sin? Did he know early on that he would betray Jesus? Or did it come to him after the Devil entered him? God’s plan worked to perfection, and we are the benefactors:thumbsup:I cannot say with any certainty that God planned for Judas to commit suicide, but I do believe that He chose him for betrayal! In a weird kind of way, it’s like Mary; she had no clue, but God did

Hmm… I like these games… People who were “not God’s” but he used:

The Pharaoh (of Moses’s days)
The Witch of Endor
The High Priest (in John 11:51)

 

[jmcrae]

I think the more interesting question is, did God know that Judas was going to betray Christ,

Yes.

and did God desire that Judas betray Christ?

No.

Did Judas sin by betraying Christ?

Yes.

If so, did God desire that Judas sin?

No.

I think it gave Him great pain, that one who had been His close disciple was the one to betray Him. If Judas had chosen not to betray Him, and if no one had sinned, then He would have found another way to make the Atonement for our sins, I feel sure.

 

[PRmerger]

I’d really like to know where this 40,000 denominations thing started.

It started when people, using their own authority and declaring themselves mini-popes, able to bind and loose at their convenience, left the Body of Christ.

 

[Xavierlives]

It started when people, using their own authority and declaring themselves mini-popes, able to bind and loose at their convenience, left the Body of Christ.

har-har… :slapfight:

 

[jmcrae]

It started when people, using their own authority and declaring themselves mini-popes, able to bind and loose at their convenience, left the Body of Christ.

Yep. Nobody was more surprised than Martin Luther was, when people started using his own arguments that he had used against the Pope’s authority, to rebel against him and his (supposed) authority. Serves him right …

 

[Xavierlives]

Yep. Nobody was more surprised than Martin Luther was, when people started using his own arguments that he had used against the Pope’s authority, to rebel against him and his (supposed) authority. Serves him right …

I meant the number 40,000 which seems to be a popular number by Catholics for the number of “protestant denominations.”

 

[Xavierlives]

Yep. Nobody was more surprised than Martin Luther was, when people started using his own arguments that he had used against the Pope’s authority, to rebel against him and his (supposed) authority. Serves him right …

Did you hear that Martin Luther was baptized Mormon?

 

[SonofMonica]

Yep. Nobody was more surprised than Martin Luther was, when people started using his own arguments that he had used against the Pope’s authority, to rebel against him and his (supposed) authority. Serves him right …

You’re exactly right.

Let’s see what Luther had to say about Christians and their individual authority: “…every Christian is by faith so exalted above all things that, by virtue of a spiritual power, he is lord of all things without exception, so that nothing can do him any harm. As a matter of fact, all things are made subject to him and are compelled to serve him in obtaining salvation.”

So let’s see how that view starts to play out–Luther starts advocating the removal of scripture from the Bible. Here’s Luther on the book of Revelation: “to my mind it bears upon it no marks of an apostolic or prophetic character… Everyone may form his own judgment of this book; as for myself, I feel an aversion to it, and to me this is sufficient reason for rejecting it.”

Finally, let’s look at where Luther takes this madness–he admits that he added the word “alone” after “faith” in Rom. 3:28, teaching a completely new and false gospel: “If your Papist annoys you with the word (‘alone’), tell him straightway, Dr. Martin Luther will have it so: Papist and *** are one and the same thing. Whoever will not have my translation, let him give it the go-by: the devil’s thanks to him who censures it without my will and knowledge. Luther will have it so, and he is a doctor above all the doctors in Popedom.”

Like the serpent in the garden of Eden, Luther sets himself as the final authority in matters of faith, he attempts to destroy scripture, and he preaches an entirely new gospel. Luther has surely proved to be a wicked and false prophet–one who is to be rejected as any example for the Christian.