How do non-denominational Christians pick a church?

[1beleevr]

Believer, I am not gonna claim that you are wrong; I don’t have that right or authority. However, I would like to ask you a few simple questions:

Does God require me to go to your worship service, or the worship service of any church for that matter, as He did in the early church long before Constantine legalized Christianity? If not, then why do I need to even attend a church service?

Does it even matter which church we attend to worship our creator, like it did for the first 400 years of Christianity?

Could I start a church tomorrow (like many have done in the past) - and set the guidelines for my congregation, on how they are to worship God?

What if my way of worshiping God in my new assembly of believers differs from the way Jesus’ church of the first 300 years of Christianity worshiped God; does that NOT matter?

Surely the church (comprised of both teachers and pupils) - built by God, that preceded the 4th century, was guided by the holy spirit and therefore provided all Christians (there were no denominations back then) - with the bone-fide paradigm on how later Christians should worship God; wouldn’t you agree?

Does God reject the Catholic way of worshiping God? If so, where in the bible is this stated?

The CC has been worshiping God in the same way since the 1st century; if they are doing it wrong now, then they were doing it wrong then; were they doing it wrong then?

Did it take hundreds and hundreds of years for God to finally pass on to your church leadership, or any Protestant church for that matter, the correct way to worship God?

If you cannot prove that the members of the CC are wrong in the way that they worship God, and you cannot prove that the members of your church are right in the way that they worship God, then like you said, we are at an impasse.

Is there any chance that the answer to our dilemma could be found in the church built by God, of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th century, again, long before the Roman Empire reputedly injected into the pedigree of Jesus’ established church, a bunch of heretical nonsense?

]

No, it doesn’t matter whwer you worship God, but that you worship Him:thumbsup:And when I answered that post by graceandglory; I was being a bit facetious, and sarcastic, as none of us has the right to chalenge anyone’s worship! And I cannot prove that noncatholics worship correctly, any more than I can prove catholics worship incorrectly or correctly Do you believe that worship is between the worshipper and his God?

 

[1beleevr]

There’s no style of worship you condemn, 1beleevr?

]

My Lord did not give me the authority to condemn anyone or anything! I would use Romans 8:1 here, but I know you would counter with ,"What of those who are not in Christ Jesus?"And do you, prmerger, know what’s in the heart of every worshipper?

 

[jmcrae]

Do you believe that worship is between the worshipper and his God?

Since worship is something we do in groups, and not by ourselves (“Our” Father; not “My” Father) it would be better to phrase it that worship is between the interpretive community and its god, rather than the individual.

However, I happen to believe that God gave us the pattern of worship, and expects us to follow it, without making up our own rules.

 

[1beleevr]

Since worship is something we do in groups, and not by ourselves (“Our” Father; not “My” Father) it would be better to phrase it that worship is between the interpretive community and its god, rather than the individual.

However, I happen to believe that God gave us the pattern of worship, and expects us to follow it, without making up our own rules.

]

Worship is another element of a PERSONAL relationship with Jesus:thumbsup: So, if I understand you correctly; if 20 or so people were in one place worshipping, each idividual is not “allowed” to worship or talk to His Creator?Now who’s making rules?

 

[PRmerger]

]

My Lord did not give me the authority to condemn anyone or anything! I would use Romans 8:1 here, but I know you would counter with ,"What of those who are not in Christ Jesus?"And do you, prmerger, know what’s in the heart of every worshipper?

Well, I for one condemn human sacrifice as a form or worship.

You really wouldn’t condemn that?

 

[jmcrae]

Worship is another element of a PERSONAL relationship with Jesus:thumbsup:

Uh - no. Worship has to do with the community’s relationship with Christ.

So, if I understand you correctly; if 20 or so people were in one place worshipping, each idividual is not “allowed” to worship or talk to His Creator?

Not at all. They would all be worshipping together. They would be offering up their sacrifice and prayers as a group. One person (the priest) would be speaking on their behalf. They would all be of one mind, together.

 

[1beleevr]

Well, I for one condemn human sacrifice as a form or worship.

You really wouldn’t condemn that?

]

I have never recognized human sacrifice as a form of worship! Please reread my post; I do not condemn, and whether or not I condone something depends on the situation!

 

[1beleevr]

Uh - no. Worship has to do with the community’s relationship with Christ.

Not at all. They would all be worshipping together. They would be offering up their sacrifice and prayers as a group. One person (the priest) would be speaking on their behalf. They would all be of one mind, together.

]

Wrong; each of us CAN worship God on our own! Otherwise we are robots, led by the head robot, the priest! And even though in our church, we worship as a group, we are individuals, and God recognizes as such! So, are you saying that during worship at a cc church, congregants are rendered mute?

 

[PRmerger]

]I have never recognized human sacrifice as a form of worship!

Then you are contradicting your very own premise, which is: you believe that even if someone* else *doesn’t recognize that it’s worship, if the believer sincerely believes it, then it’s worship.

Do you see why there must be some sort of standard for what is worship, 1beleevr?

If you have no standard except “sincerity”, then you allow for human sacrifice as a form of worship (provided it’s sincere )

If you have the standard as “that which I recognize as a form of worship”, then you ought not object to the Catholic Church making statements about what it recognizes as worship.

 

[1beleevr]

Well, I for one condemn human sacrifice as a form or worship.

You really wouldn’t condemn that?

]

Let me ask you this: When you condemn something(honestly now) are you condemning it based on what prmerger believes, or what you believe God would want? There are many who have condemned the fictional book,“The Shack.”, because they believe that Mr. Young is redefining the Godhead! I said, " If a work of fiction, can challenge or change how you feel about the Godhead, or anything else spiritual, then perhaps you need to reexamine your faith! And I will pray for them!

 

[jmcrae]

So, are you saying that during worship at a cc church, congregants are rendered mute?

We pray together, all the same prayers. “In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” “I confess to almighty God and to you my brothers and sisters …” “Lord have mercy …” “Glory to God in the highest, and peace to His people on earth …” “Holy, holy, holy Lord, God of power and might …”, “Our Father, who art in heaven …”, "Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world … " “Amen.”

We aren’t “robots” - we are of one mind, together. We mean with our hearts, the words that we are reciting and singing together. We join our hearts and minds with the prayers that the priest is saying on our behalf, and raise them up to God with him.

 

[PRmerger]

]Let me ask you this: When you condemn something(honestly now) are you condemning it based on what prmerger believes, or what you believe God would want?

I condemn human sacrifice because it’s against the most fundamental principle of humanity: that we are made in the image and likeness of God.

Again, 1beleevr, if you’re saying that you don’t “recognize” that as a type of worship, then aren’t you doing the same thing that the CC is doing?

You’re indignant that the CC does not “recognize” your praise and worship service as true worship, yes?

 

[1beleevr]

Then you are contradicting your very own premise, which is: you believe that even if someone* else *doesn’t recognize that it’s worship, if the believer sincerely believes it, then it’s worship.

Do you see why there must be some sort of standard for what is worship, 1beleevr?

If you have no standard except “sincerity”, then you allow for human sacrifice as a form of worship (provided it’s sincere )

If you have the standard as “that which I recognize as a form of worship”, then you ought not object to the Catholic Church making statements about what it recognizes as worship.

]

Actually, it is members of the cc who are objecting to the way noncatholics worship! You then presume to know what’s in the heart of every worshipper Do you believe that it is possible to worship God, on your own, away from the church; you know impromptu worship? Do you ever sit by yourself at home, away from everything(Jesus told us to go away by ourselves, and communed with and worshipped your Heavenly Father? It’s okay to break away from the pack(like the Phariseess) and worship your God!

 

[jmcrae]

]

Actually, it is members of the cc who are objecting to the way noncatholics worship! You then presume to know what’s in the heart of every worshipper Do you believe that it is possible to worship God, on your own, away from the church; you know impromptu worship? Do you ever sit by yourself at home, away from everything(Jesus told us to go away by ourselves, and communed with and worshipped your Heavenly Father? It’s okay to break away from the pack(like the Phariseess) and worship your God!

That’s “praying” that’s not “worship.” Jesus said “pray” by yourself; He continued to “worship” at the Temple with His covenantal community.

 

[PRmerger]

]Actually, it is members of the cc who are objecting to the way noncatholics worship!

And then you’re doing the same thing, 1beleevr. You object to the CC doing this, yet you are objecting to the Aztec’s form of worship: human sacrifice.

Why do you get to object to something, but the CC doesn’t?

 

[1beleevr]

And then you’re doing the same thing, 1beleevr. You object to the CC doing this, yet you are objecting to the Aztec’s form of worship: human sacrifice.

Why do you get to object to something, but the CC doesn’t?

]

I do not condone human sacrifice PERIOD!!! So we are equally hypocritical about other’s worship?

 

[benedictus2]

I’m really just saying that I doubt God’s concept of worship has changed over the years.

Yes very good point. That is why it doesn’t. The Jews have the Todah and the Christians have the Eucharist.

Here is an exerpt from this article
From Jewish Passover to Christian Eucharist: The Story of the Todah

Indeed, an old Rabbinic teaching says: "In the coming Messianic age all sacrifices will cease, but the thank offering todah] will never cease."(1) What is it about this sacrifice that makes it stand alone in such a way that it would outlast all other sacrifices after the redemption of the Messiah?

A todah sacrifice would be offered by someone whose life had been delivered from great peril, such as disease or the sword. The redeemed person would show his gratitude to God by gathering his closest friends and family for a todah sacrificial meal. The lamb would be sacrificed in the Temple and the bread for the meal would be consecrated the moment the lamb was sacrificed. The bread and meat, along with wine, would constitute the elements of the sacred todah meal, which would be accompanied by prayers and songs of thanksgiving, such as Psalm 116. What does the word “todah” mean? It is Hebrew for “thanksgiving,” although it also connotes a confession of praise in addition to gratitude. For example, Leah gave thanks to God when she bore her fourth son, and so she named him yehudah — or Judah — which is the verbal form of todah — to give thanks.

Eucharist - Thanksgiving.

 

[adelore]

It’s ironic that the ones who are most against the “man-made” denominations, are the ones who “make it up as they go,” in other words, the “independent” or “non-denominational” ones.

My step Mother goes to a “Non-Denominatinal” Independent Church, which is not part of a bigger group. They **vote **on their Church Doctrine, every year or every two years. I can’t remember which it is.

I remember visiting this church several times while I was growing up with friends. This church over the years, (since I have visited off and on.) has went from having Pews, to chairs, from having an alter and cross, …to big screen on the wall, so when they sing, everyone can see the words . (and no alter or cross) From having a piano and organ…To having a “Rock Band”.

It went from Prayer and quite whispers before service…to everyone walking around the church, children allowed to run all over, and talking loudly, no quite time. Children and people are allowed to eat and drink during service…and I’m not talking about Babies.

I went a few months ago as she invited me. (I had went to Sat. evening Mass) to hear their special guest speaker. I hadn’t been there in 2 years. I was floored to see the changes.

So like I said, they are now Voting on what their “Church Doctrine” will be for the next 2 years. By the way I’ve read some of their church Doctrine and I just don’t get why you’d want to change some of “Your Bible Believing Ways.” or to Omit some of them.

I wish I could help you and your family in your search for a new church home…but since you asked what would I look for in a new church. If I was still attending a non-catholic church.

1. How long is their Church History. (5, 10, 15 or 25 years, this way you’ll know if this is just some “New” group, or one that has been around for awhile.)
2. Ask for a copy of their Church Doctrines. Many Church will be happy to give you one of these, then you’ll know without a doubt what they believe in. See if it matches what you believe in. Just going to church there for awhile you’d be surprised that it could take you 5 years, to find out some things they believe in and you don’t.

It took me 5 years to find something like that …because back then I hadn’t thought to ask for a copy of the Church Doctrine. And 5 years later I learned when one of our decons wife had an partical birth aboration…she was 6 months pregnant., because, they found out, so the doctors told them, that the baby was being born without a brain, but had a brain stem and would die at birth. I tried talking to this lady and her husband and said, you can’t always trust an ultra sound. My ultra sound told me my son was going to be handicap and would never be able to walk. It was wrong put your faith in God, like I did and let God decide. Well they went ahead with the aboration and then had a funeral. Like this poor baby died at a natural birth and wasn’t killed by an abortion. And get this the Whole church backed them. Said that aboration was allowed if something was “wrong” with the baby. (I was torn to pieces…I just couldn’t go to that funeral and give my “sympothy” to parents who had killed their child.) Although I did pray for the baby.

I about flipped, it took 5 years for me to find out the church and people I loved, believed aboration was ok. If only I had “thought” to ask for a copy of the Church Doctrine, I would have never went to church there.

1. You could always check out the Catholic Church. (I mean how can I not suggest that since I am a returning Catholic…and after all you did ask. )

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

The reason they are called “pagans” is that they don’t actually worship God at all so how could anyone ever be guilty of “worshipping God the way the pagans do”? That’s a totally nonsensical statement.

I cant find the verse in the time I have . it was part of the instructions given to the Israelites before entering canon. A bad paraphrase would be: Do not go out looking at the way they worship their gods saying, I will worship my God in the same way…

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

Is that what atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, etc etc etc say about us Christians who say that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life?

That is, when you tell non-Christians that they must be Christians in order to be saved, is that you thinking that only you are special, MRL?

Or are you simply proclaiming the truth, and it may sound arrogant to non-believers, but it’s really just the truth.